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You're right, all it took was you and others to criticize me and make me realize the error of my ways and how shortsighted and biased I am. It actually worked beyond my wildest dreams now that I've been corrected.
I don't know why it's imparative that I like this feature and my flaws must be pointed out for not realizing how great they were. I pointed out the details of how I used them and that I didn't like them. It was my subjective opinion.
🙄🙄🙄 Doesn't use or understand features correctly, then complains that features suck.
FWIW my comment that your review on them was short sighted was also my opinion, as I indicated.
You do you and turn them all off if you buy another Toyota/Lexus product (or any car make for that matter, this stuff is standard on almost all of them now). There are switches for all of them.
Meh, those features ain't for everyone for sure. I love the *idea* of auto hold, but after months and months I literally ALWAYS forget to use it (wifes SUV has it). And compared to Kia's lane keep, the Toyota/Lexus one really stinks. Though I've heard it said Kia has some of the best around, so take what you will from that.
Plenty of people don't even like using the adaptive cruise, and while I think that makes them monsters (and wrong, lol... joking), it's another one of those subjective things....
🙄🙄🙄 Doesn't use or understand features correctly, then complains that features suck.
FWIW my comment that your review on them was short sighted was also my opinion, as I indicated.
You do you and turn them all off if you buy another Toyota/Lexus product (or any car make for that matter, this stuff is standard on almost all of them now). There are switches for all of them.
I don't know why you have to keep beating a dead horse and you're also putting words in my mouth. Point out where I ever said anything "sucked". I had a mildly critical take based off of my admitted short use of a 2020 ES350. Take it for what you will but I don't know why people keep harassing me over it.
I have been thinking a lot of buying a GS 350, possibly the newer ones for better techs (e.g. blind spot monitoring, parking assist, etc).
But I hear that 2013-2015 models are the best for sportiness, while the latter ones (2016-) are more tilted toward luxuriousness. Is this true?
Yes, the 2013-15 have the firmest spring rates.
However to be more precise, the 2015 has the firmest dampers for float control, and this model year almost handles like a compact sedan.
The 2014 has better riding but floatier dampers.
The 2016-18 has the softest ride, with softer spring rates, a little more lean, and nice riding floatier dampers, but it still handles very well.
The 2019-20 has intermediate suspension calibration - in between the firmer 2013-15 and the softer 2016-18.
I like the balance of 2016's (non F-Sport) softer spring rates but with a stiff sidewall performance tire like a Michelin PS4S. On harder turns, you get a bit of lean and weight transfer then then the tire really digs and shows what the chassis can do.
I think you'll be happy with almost any choice. I bought the basest of base models, 4 cylinder with no nav. I added a tune, oem nav and the PS4S tires and I really enjoy driving the car. My only regret is that I bought it right before the pandemic and I only drive it once a week.
I like the balance of 2016's (non F-Sport) softer spring rates but with a stiff sidewall performance tire like a Michelin PS4S. On harder turns, you get a bit of lean and weight transfer then then the tire really digs and shows what the chassis can do.
I think you'll be happy with almost any choice. I bought the basest of base models, 4 cylinder with no nav. I added a tune, oem nav and the PS4S tires and I really enjoy driving the car. My only regret is that I bought it right before the pandemic and I only drive it once a week.
'15 luxury here, but I recently switched from TOYO Proxes (ultra performance) to Pirelli Cinturato's and I can feel more... movement? on hard or fast turns.
In a perfect world where I could find pretty much exactly what I wanted I would do a 2017 Lux and second would be an F Sport for that year. I would probably stick with AWD, although I might be willing to do RWD now.
My thoughts why:
* 2017 made a bunch of things standard.
* 2017 probably has a slighly higher likelihood of a triple beam since they were a clear option for that year (although I'm still on the fence about having these)
* It's the last year of the Lux - so I can't go any later if I want that.
* They hadn't started stiping little things like the battery covery, USB cover, bag holder off yet.
* Still a fair number sold that year, although not like the first couple years or the 2016 refresh year.
I was originally looking for a '15 loaded - I was not a fan of the refresh (from photos) but I actually like it now. It looks better in person I think. As a member pointed out once - there are some angles where the 4GS+ is not photogenic at all.
A few of my opinions on some comments above:
* Totally agree with JDR - any year 2013-2020 will do
* Totally agree with GS350Mike on his overall assessment and specifically the point about 2017 being best for overall value, tech, refinement, features.
* I HATED the 8 speed transmission the first few times I test drove RWD cars with it because I thought in general it seemed sluggish. BUT, on about the third RWD I figured out how hard you have to hit the detent on the accelerator. Once I realized that I just hadn't pressed hard enough I was ok with it. I didn't notice it hunting around but I only test drove RWD a few times when I was looking I may not have enough experience with it.
* Totally agree with JDR on dynamic cruise....I couldn't live without it.
* LKA I am NOT a fan of. I've only used it with cruise but it was great to learn from JDR that it behaves differently if you use it without dynamic cruise. I didn't know that. I swear every week I'm still learning and finding new things on this car. I have a few issues with LKA that might be different depending on where I lived - open interstate in TX is very different than here in the PNW where there's almost always a decent amount of traffic. Personally I find it very uncomfortable passing cars because they seem awfully close. It made me realize how much tend to ride the outer edge of a lane, especially as I pass. I also can't seem to ever get the grip on the steering will quite right. It either feels like I'm fighting it a bit or if I loosen my grip it complains I'm not holding the wheel enough. Granted, I'm not a fan so I haven't really looked into things a ton so maybe I just need to learn more about it.
* I LOVE the Hold feature for Drive Thrus but that's about the only place I use it. I've found it works as JDR described. One note - you do have to keep an eye on it, I think at about 3 minutes it tells you tap the brake again and if you don't it will set the parking brake and I think turn off Hold (I'd need to double check that last part).
* For stop and go traffic I use the Dynamic Cruise and LOVE it. It brings the car to a complete stop - when the car ahead of you moves just tap the cruise lever or the accelerator and away it goes. I use this over Hold in stop and go. There are some caveats - mainly that I would never trust it to stop me (although I think it would) if I was coming up to stopped traffic without it being registered on a car in front of me that was also slowing down.
* Totally agree with Chinee about the buttons - when he explained the up/down arrows as a way to navigate when I was first learning the car it made a world of difference (Thanks again Chinee!)
* Totally agree with ItzFilyO - if you get an 2018+ you have to get the battery terminal cover And in my book if it's the '20 you have to get the bag hook in the trunk...I LOVE that and use it all the time.
In closing...
If there's a feature you want and yours doesn't haven it - I'm sure Peasodos has done it or has thought about doing it or has seen something about doing it God help us all when he moves on to his next car.....
And Thank you DaveGS4 for gently getting us back on track - the 4GS forum is great place and I appreciate how civil it generally is because of the moderators keeping an eye on us.
In a perfect world where I could find pretty much exactly what I wanted I would do a 2017 Lux and second would be an F Sport for that year. I would probably stick with AWD, although I might be willing to do RWD now.
My thoughts why:
* 2017 made a bunch of things standard.
* 2017 probably has a slighly higher likelihood of a triple beam since they were a clear option for that year (although I'm still on the fence about having these)
* It's the last year of the Lux - so I can't go any later if I want that.
* They hadn't started stiping little things like the battery covery, USB cover, bag holder off yet.
* Still a fair number sold that year, although not like the first couple years or the 2016 refresh year.
I was originally looking for a '15 loaded - I was not a fan of the refresh (from photos) but I actually like it now. It looks better in person I think. As a member pointed out once - there are some angles where the 4GS+ is not photogenic at all.
A few of my opinions on some comments above:
* Totally agree with JDR - any year 2013-2020 will do
* Totally agree with GS350Mike on his overall assessment and specifically the point about 2017 being best for overall value, tech, refinement, features.
* I HATED the 8 speed transmission the first few times I test drove RWD cars with it because I thought in general it seemed sluggish. BUT, on about the third RWD I figured out how hard you have to hit the detent on the accelerator. Once I realized that I just hadn't pressed hard enough I was ok with it. I didn't notice it hunting around but I only test drove RWD a few times when I was looking I may not have enough experience with it.
* Totally agree with JDR on dynamic cruise....I couldn't live without it.
* LKA I am NOT a fan of. I've only used it with cruise but it was great to learn from JDR that it behaves differently if you use it without dynamic cruise. I didn't know that. I swear every week I'm still learning and finding new things on this car. I have a few issues with LKA that might be different depending on where I lived - open interstate in TX is very different than here in the PNW where there's almost always a decent amount of traffic. Personally I find it very uncomfortable passing cars because they seem awfully close. It made me realize how much tend to ride the outer edge of a lane, especially as I pass. I also can't seem to ever get the grip on the steering will quite right. It either feels like I'm fighting it a bit or if I loosen my grip it complains I'm not holding the wheel enough. Granted, I'm not a fan so I haven't really looked into things a ton so maybe I just need to learn more about it.
* I LOVE the Hold feature for Drive Thrus but that's about the only place I use it. I've found it works as JDR described. One note - you do have to keep an eye on it, I think at about 3 minutes it tells you tap the brake again and if you don't it will set the parking brake and I think turn off Hold (I'd need to double check that last part).
* For stop and go traffic I use the Dynamic Cruise and LOVE it. It brings the car to a complete stop - when the car ahead of you moves just tap the cruise lever or the accelerator and away it goes. I use this over Hold in stop and go. There are some caveats - mainly that I would never trust it to stop me (although I think it would) if I was coming up to stopped traffic without it being registered on a car in front of me that was also slowing down.
* Totally agree with Chinee about the buttons - when he explained the up/down arrows as a way to navigate when I was first learning the car it made a world of difference (Thanks again Chinee!)
* Totally agree with ItzFilyO - if you get an 2018+ you have to get the battery terminal cover And in my book if it's the '20 you have to get the bag hook in the trunk...I LOVE that and use it all the time.
In closing...
If there's a feature you want and yours doesn't haven it - I'm sure Peasodos has done it or has thought about doing it or has seen something about doing it God help us all when he moves on to his next car.....
And Thank you DaveGS4 for gently getting us back on track - the 4GS forum is great place and I appreciate how civil it generally is because of the moderators keeping an eye on us.
Great post. Not sure if I can make this point enough times, but I really wish I could have found a low mileage Luxury ‘17, or one that wasn’t in rough shape. There are just so few of them out there.
The only thing I miss at all about my ‘14 GS F Sport is the seat extender. Then again I’m really not a fan of the glossy wood steering wheel, so maybe I’m better off with my ‘17 Premium and my upgraded 19” 10 spoke wheels after all.
Almost two months since I traded up and I’m still keenly aware of how much more smoothly this one drives than the ‘14.
There are some caveats - mainly that I would never trust it to stop me (although I think it would) if I was coming up to stopped traffic without it being registered on a car in front of me that was also slowing down.
Yes this is in fact scary. But, as you noted, it will stop. 2 things will happen in such a scenario like approaching stopped traffic quickly or needing a sudden stop:
1) the car will cruise along until the computer determines the rate of speed vs. The distance to the car ahead is too much for the distance setting you've set the radar cruse too. Once it determines that, it uses that information to determine how much brake to apply. Because this all happens fast, the brake is applied HARD.
2) if your rate of closing on the vehicle in front of you is too fast for the radar cruise to adjust to by braking on its own, the PCS with emergency brake will engage and that will apply full brake to attempt to stop you.
In most cases the HARD brake applied by radar cruise will stop you. But it is definitely too iffy to even chance it, and you are absolutely better off taking control of the brake before the system decides it thinks it has enough time to stop.
Yes this is in fact scary. But, as you noted, it will stop. 2 things will happen in such a scenario like approaching stopped traffic quickly or needing a sudden stop:
1) the car will cruise along until the computer determines the rate of speed vs. The distance to the car ahead is too much for the distance setting you've set the radar cruse too. Once it determines that, it uses that information to determine how much brake to apply. Because this all happens fast, the brake is applied HARD.
2) if your rate of closing on the vehicle in front of you is too fast for the radar cruise to adjust to by braking on its own, the PCS with emergency brake will engage and that will apply full brake to attempt to stop you.
In most cases the HARD brake applied by radar cruise will stop you. But it is definitely too iffy to even chance it, and you are absolutely better off taking control of the brake before the system decides it thinks it has enough time to stop.
I assumed that's basically how it worked and it can brake a little hard when someone moves in front of you so I can't imagine what it does when it has an "oh $#!+" moment when it all of a sudden picks up stopped vehicles. I think I also put that caveat on there as a "try at your own risk" in case someone took what a said a bit too literal. When I have it on on bigger faster "streets" (as opposed to true highways or interstate) I'm still monitoring that's going on quite a bit.
Having it on pretty regularly has made me realize how many actions we as humans do and why trying to make a car drive on it's own or even just somewhat on it's own is pretty hard. Where from a distance I might see the red light way up ahead and simply let up on the accelerator and start to coast these technologies have to rely on a much less defined "picture" of whats going on around them such as just the car in front. There are some intersections I go through regularly that are at weird angles where a human has no issue understanding the complexity of the lights/signs/lanes but how do you make a computer figure that out in split seconds?
Someone mentioned Super Cruise in a post not long ago so I was looking that up and found this artcile/review. Seems like GM is doing a pretty good job - I would assume Toyota will continue to refine the system.
I have had three different generation 4 GS 350s, so I think I can definitely help you with this...
2016 - advanced features were still an option. You need to find one that has those features.
2017 - all the advanced features are standard, and the prices are notably better than 2018.
2018 - many of them were upgraded to the beautiful 19” ten spoke wheels. Make a huge difference to the overall look of the car, and no compromise to the ride if you use the right all season ultra performance tires instead of stock summer tires.
2017 is probably the best year for overall value, technology, refinement, and features.
If you’re considering an F sport, you need to understand the trade-off. It’s not a high performance sports sedan, but it’s the best value priced sport option in the luxury market. I drove a ‘14 GS F Sport for 3 1/2 years and opted for a ‘17 premium model when I traded it in recently because the ride quality, tire wear, and brake wear were all to much of a price for me to pay any longer. It wasn’t a real sports sedan, and it wasn’t worth getting again. But there are far more of them available for sale. Just be really sure staggered tires and high performance brakes on a “wanna-be” sports sedan that still only has the same horse power really makes sense fir your driving style.
Thr Luxury package would have been my first choice, and I really wish I could have found one this time. But they are hard very to find, and the ones I saw had too many miles, or were the wrong color, or had too much wear and tear for my taste. In two months I only found three for sale in the whole country. None were clean enough.
The 2016-18 premiums have a much more refined driving experience than the 2013-2015, and all the advanced safety and technology features that are sorely lacking in the 2013-2015. Adaptive cruise, lane keep assist, brake hold, and the more advance display and settings make the car feel notably more current. Also, the front end styling on the 2013-2015 is pretty boring to look at.
2016-present gets you the less bland front end design, and if you go with 2018 it’s a lot easier to find ones that were upgraded to the 19” ten spoke wheels versus the disappointing 18” wheels. Mine is below.
03-31-21, 10:25 AM
