GS vs ES
04-09-21, 01:10 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
Most car ppl are just all talk. It hurts but true! 
Oh they want this, they want that but their wallets can't back it up.
Oh they want this, they want that but their wallets can't back it up.
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srsvii07 (04-14-21)
04-09-21, 01:51 PM
#17
So I just picked up a 2020 ES loaner because my 2017 GS Fsport is having a routine maintenance done.
Holy god what a hunk of crap this ES is.
Prior to this current GS I was driving a 2015 all-wheel-drive GS 350, and before that in SC 400. All three of the previous Lexus vehicles I had driven all drove beautifully. Then the interiors were luxurious clean and elegant.
This ES might as well be an entry-level Toyota. I don’t see why people drive this car.
Luxury car, my ***.
Holy god what a hunk of crap this ES is.
Prior to this current GS I was driving a 2015 all-wheel-drive GS 350, and before that in SC 400. All three of the previous Lexus vehicles I had driven all drove beautifully. Then the interiors were luxurious clean and elegant.
This ES might as well be an entry-level Toyota. I don’t see why people drive this car.
Luxury car, my ***.
The ES is one of the most popular and enduring sedans on the market. It’s not the kind of car you like.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 04-09-21 at 02:22 PM. Reason: removed rude comment
04-09-21, 02:11 PM
#18
Oooo. Should I post a new thread on my ES experience? I had a few ES loaners and demos when I was working at the dealership. A new thread per each demo/loaner. lol. Seriously, we see these threads almost every week.
04-09-21, 11:31 PM
#22
Both 7ES and 4GS are great cars, but in different ways.
They are both nicely styled, but GS has short overhangs.
The GS dashboard styling is very long in the tooth [old].
Both have 99 cu ft of EPA passenger space, though the ES can "seem" more spacious thanks to its narrower seats, with shorter seat bases.
The GS actually has a bigger trunk compared to the newer "pinch tailed" 7ES.
ES is ultimately better riding and quieter, though a 2016-18 GS rides almost as well, but the RWD has much less turning of the steering wheel to fight understeer, and instead the RWD-based GS steers more by throttle input.
The GS still has superior plastics, leather, stitching and assembly, and ultimately the GS is the better alround package, but then the GS cost 20% more.
They are both nicely styled, but GS has short overhangs.
The GS dashboard styling is very long in the tooth [old].
Both have 99 cu ft of EPA passenger space, though the ES can "seem" more spacious thanks to its narrower seats, with shorter seat bases.
The GS actually has a bigger trunk compared to the newer "pinch tailed" 7ES.
ES is ultimately better riding and quieter, though a 2016-18 GS rides almost as well, but the RWD has much less turning of the steering wheel to fight understeer, and instead the RWD-based GS steers more by throttle input.
The GS still has superior plastics, leather, stitching and assembly, and ultimately the GS is the better alround package, but then the GS cost 20% more.
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04-10-21, 05:58 AM
#23
Lead Lap
I think these type of threads are now very relevant to this forum. With the GS discontinued, we will all have a choice to make at some point in the future. Some near term, some long term.
As GS fans (I have owned 07,13 Luxury Package ,15 FSport, and 17 FSport GS's) many of us struggle with what is next. My 17 FSport has 101,000 on it, so probably only through about 50% of the mileage I will put on it. However, I have no clue what I will buy next, but I know it won't be an ES. It may be Lexus if they step up their game over the next few years.
Otherwise it will be a new brand (to remain nameless to avoid the shaming that typically comes with mentioning another brand on here).
As GS fans (I have owned 07,13 Luxury Package ,15 FSport, and 17 FSport GS's) many of us struggle with what is next. My 17 FSport has 101,000 on it, so probably only through about 50% of the mileage I will put on it. However, I have no clue what I will buy next, but I know it won't be an ES. It may be Lexus if they step up their game over the next few years.
Otherwise it will be a new brand (to remain nameless to avoid the shaming that typically comes with mentioning another brand on here).
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04-10-21, 06:17 AM
#24
I think these type of threads are now very relevant to this forum. With the GS discontinued, we will all have a choice to make at some point in the future. Some near term, some long term.
As GS fans (I have owned 07,13 Luxury Package ,15 FSport, and 17 FSport GS's) many of us struggle with what is next. My 17 FSport has 101,000 on it, so probably only through about 50% of the mileage I will put on it. However, I have no clue what I will buy next, but I know it won't be an ES. It may be Lexus if they step up their game over the next few years.
Otherwise it will be a new brand (to remain nameless to avoid the shaming that typically comes with mentioning another brand on here).
As GS fans (I have owned 07,13 Luxury Package ,15 FSport, and 17 FSport GS's) many of us struggle with what is next. My 17 FSport has 101,000 on it, so probably only through about 50% of the mileage I will put on it. However, I have no clue what I will buy next, but I know it won't be an ES. It may be Lexus if they step up their game over the next few years.
Otherwise it will be a new brand (to remain nameless to avoid the shaming that typically comes with mentioning another brand on here).
4-5 years from now who knows. A pre-owned ES may be my only option. Maybe there will be a V6 sersion of the AWD by then.
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Im2bz2p345 (04-12-21)
04-10-21, 08:53 AM
#25
Seems at least once a month or so there is a I got a ES Loaner I hated it Thread here.
Funny as it is, not being a 4th Gen GS460 or having a little more hp, I'm sure there would be other car Brand owners, that given a GS350 down on hp would hate the GS Loaner. lol!
Last edited by jgscott; 04-10-21 at 08:58 AM.
04-10-21, 12:09 PM
#26
Yes. I had owned a 13 ES U/L while also Owning the 13 GS350 Lux for years. I drove the ES everyday. It was a fine car for what it was. They are 2 different cars. I have yet to see anyone in the 6th Gen ES Forum unhappy with their ES. Saw one here unhappy in the GS Forum but not in the ES Forum.
Seems at least once a month or so there is a I got a ES Loaner I hated it Thread here.
Funny as it is, not being a 4th Gen GS460 or having a little more hp, I'm sure there would be other car Brand owners, that given a GS350 down on hp would hate the GS Loaner. lol!
Seems at least once a month or so there is a I got a ES Loaner I hated it Thread here.
Funny as it is, not being a 4th Gen GS460 or having a little more hp, I'm sure there would be other car Brand owners, that given a GS350 down on hp would hate the GS Loaner. lol!
I then had a Aristo V300 which were the Japanese domestic GS, but with the turbo 3L I6 instead of the NA of the GS. That car was ahead of it’s time super comfortable just as fast as a Supra in a straight line.
I then moved onto a 2010 GS460. It was too super refined but was let down by a design fault of the V8 over time so I got rid of it - detecting knocking while there was none.
I now have a 2012 GS450h which has the economy and power as the Gs460 but doesn’t match it in driveline refinement nor overall build quality.
imo the last year of the gs460 has the best build quality. Way better seats and had no rattle anywhere. I miss that car.
my next car would be a 2018-2019 GS450h with all the options. Non F sport.
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Im2bz2p345 (04-12-21)
04-10-21, 01:09 PM
#27
My first car was a 1992 Windom. Followed by a 1996 Windom. They were the Japanese domestic ESs. Loved them both and were more refined than most cars on the road at the time.
I then had a Aristo V300 which were the Japanese domestic GS, but with the turbo 3L I6 instead of the NA of the GS. That car was ahead of it’s time super comfortable just as fast as a Supra in a straight line.
I then moved onto a 2010 GS460. It was too super refined but was let down by a design fault of the V8 over time so I got rid of it - detecting knocking while there was none.
I now have a 2012 GS450h which has the economy and power as the Gs460 but doesn’t match it in driveline refinement nor overall build quality.
imo the last year of the gs460 has the best build quality. Way better seats and had no rattle anywhere. I miss that car.
my next car would be a 2018-2019 GS450h with all the options. Non F sport.
I then had a Aristo V300 which were the Japanese domestic GS, but with the turbo 3L I6 instead of the NA of the GS. That car was ahead of it’s time super comfortable just as fast as a Supra in a straight line.
I then moved onto a 2010 GS460. It was too super refined but was let down by a design fault of the V8 over time so I got rid of it - detecting knocking while there was none.
I now have a 2012 GS450h which has the economy and power as the Gs460 but doesn’t match it in driveline refinement nor overall build quality.
imo the last year of the gs460 has the best build quality. Way better seats and had no rattle anywhere. I miss that car.
my next car would be a 2018-2019 GS450h with all the options. Non F sport.
I guess my point about the Loaner ES comments constantly here, was like go get a IS loaner and go post in the CL IS thread how much it sucks and bash the IS. lol!
04-12-21, 06:03 AM
#28
LEts be real folks. Lexus out side of a few performance variants TRADITIONALLY are for people that don’t love to drive. This is true for many brands of luxury. They are great quiet environments. The ES has never been a great car but the price and durability made it a good value.
Huge seller.
This group aspires to be somewhat enthusiastic about their vehicles so we are not the norm.
I won’t **** on the ES but admire its modern looks. Seems many more older variants of ES on the road than similar age Audi’s and BMW’s whom for decades I was an owner of many new models.
In fact I looked down on the GS as a wannabe.
We all have our reasons for being here. My 2020 was about forward reliability and a car that checked all the boxes. If I had my druthers I’d have an Audi S5 sedan. But I’m fatigued by caring for high end and obsessing over tires.
I have come to appreciate my AWD Fsport. I prefer the ride of the non AWD but I I can take this car skiing, to the beach on long weekends with its great trunk, enjoy the ML sound and still converse with my wife, and just plain enjoy. My LED headlamps? Could care less. Im more in fear I have to replace one actually!!
I dont’ get many compliments on this car. It sort of disappears. I’m cool with that. I prefer it actually.
We have a 3rd car, a 2 seater convertible with MT trans so we get our “enthusiastic driving” out of our system that way. Heavy sedans make good grand tourers. Trying to make them into sports cars is expensive. Its WHY M5, AMG’s and GS-F are not cheap and have big running costs. I admire them and debated getting a few M’s in my day. Never more than “M-sport” with manual’s. It was a good enough compromise.
When I got my 2020 GS there was an ES Fsport on the shorwroom that would have actually cost more to buy. Other than the exterior and some modern bits inside ther was little to prefer. GS felt far more substantial. I’m sure if drove an LS back to back in test it would have as well. Different markets.
GS time has come and gone. Wifey drives an 2015 Allroad that she adores. We like Cars. Likely we replace with some EV in a few years. Times have changed. We love car our cars but the world sees it differently now.
Enjoy the ride fellas!!!
Huge seller.
This group aspires to be somewhat enthusiastic about their vehicles so we are not the norm.
I won’t **** on the ES but admire its modern looks. Seems many more older variants of ES on the road than similar age Audi’s and BMW’s whom for decades I was an owner of many new models.
In fact I looked down on the GS as a wannabe.
We all have our reasons for being here. My 2020 was about forward reliability and a car that checked all the boxes. If I had my druthers I’d have an Audi S5 sedan. But I’m fatigued by caring for high end and obsessing over tires.
I have come to appreciate my AWD Fsport. I prefer the ride of the non AWD but I I can take this car skiing, to the beach on long weekends with its great trunk, enjoy the ML sound and still converse with my wife, and just plain enjoy. My LED headlamps? Could care less. Im more in fear I have to replace one actually!!
I dont’ get many compliments on this car. It sort of disappears. I’m cool with that. I prefer it actually.
We have a 3rd car, a 2 seater convertible with MT trans so we get our “enthusiastic driving” out of our system that way. Heavy sedans make good grand tourers. Trying to make them into sports cars is expensive. Its WHY M5, AMG’s and GS-F are not cheap and have big running costs. I admire them and debated getting a few M’s in my day. Never more than “M-sport” with manual’s. It was a good enough compromise.
When I got my 2020 GS there was an ES Fsport on the shorwroom that would have actually cost more to buy. Other than the exterior and some modern bits inside ther was little to prefer. GS felt far more substantial. I’m sure if drove an LS back to back in test it would have as well. Different markets.
GS time has come and gone. Wifey drives an 2015 Allroad that she adores. We like Cars. Likely we replace with some EV in a few years. Times have changed. We love car our cars but the world sees it differently now.
Enjoy the ride fellas!!!
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Teocali (04-12-21)
04-12-21, 10:38 AM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
Both 7ES and 4GS are great cars, but in different ways.
They are both nicely styled, but GS has short overhangs.
The GS dashboard styling is very long in the tooth [old].
Both have 99 cu ft of EPA passenger space, though the ES can "seem" more spacious thanks to its narrower seats, with shorter seat bases.
The GS actually has a bigger trunk compared to the newer "pinch tailed" 7ES.
ES is ultimately better riding and quieter, though a 2016-18 GS rides almost as well, but the RWD has much less turning of the steering wheel to fight understeer, and instead the RWD-based GS steers more by throttle input.
The GS still has superior plastics, leather, stitching and assembly, and ultimately the GS is the better alround package, but then the GS cost 20% more.
They are both nicely styled, but GS has short overhangs.
The GS dashboard styling is very long in the tooth [old].
Both have 99 cu ft of EPA passenger space, though the ES can "seem" more spacious thanks to its narrower seats, with shorter seat bases.
The GS actually has a bigger trunk compared to the newer "pinch tailed" 7ES.
ES is ultimately better riding and quieter, though a 2016-18 GS rides almost as well, but the RWD has much less turning of the steering wheel to fight understeer, and instead the RWD-based GS steers more by throttle input.
The GS still has superior plastics, leather, stitching and assembly, and ultimately the GS is the better alround package, but then the GS cost 20% more.
Another point worth noting for potential GS to ES shoppers is that the ES has an enormously stronger and more advanced platform/body in white/architecture whose torsional rigidity rivals the LC500 which is in exotic territory in terms of stifness. I did the math because Lexus does not officially publish #s, and I am estimating based on press releases, techncial docs, etc, the torsional rigidity to be north of 40,000 nM/degree (easily). That's astounding. The 7ES just uses newer materials and construction in general which also add to the robustness overall. A much healthier use of 1500 mPa steel as well as adhesives and laser screw welding. This is to be expected with the newest multibillion dollar TNGA platforms the newer models ride on.
Not a knock on the GS as it's a great car. I previously had a IS200T F Sport so i appreciate the RWD Lexus models, but it's not all doom and gloom for the 7ES either. It's a very nice handling spacious and comfortable package that has very good ride and sound insulation characteristics.
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14GS350 (09-23-23)
04-12-21, 03:46 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
What they need to do is to add the AWD and make AVS standard on the ES350 FSport and stop with the 250 non-sense. This is like the GS200t joke all over again. These cars don't deserve an underpowered 4 cyl engine. TTV6 is always welcomed.
Keep those small engines in the smaller car segment or put that turbo 4 cyl engine in the UX or revive the CT with that turbo engine and I'm sure it will sell very well.
Keep those small engines in the smaller car segment or put that turbo 4 cyl engine in the UX or revive the CT with that turbo engine and I'm sure it will sell very well.
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