GS vs ES
04-13-21, 07:02 AM
#32
What they need to do is to add the AWD and make AVS standard on the ES350 FSport and stop with the 250 non-sense. This is like the GS200t joke all over again. These cars don't deserve an underpowered 4 cyl engine. TTV6 is always welcomed.
Keep those small engines in the smaller car segment or put that turbo 4 cyl engine in the UX or revive the CT with that turbo engine and I'm sure it will sell very well.
Keep those small engines in the smaller car segment or put that turbo 4 cyl engine in the UX or revive the CT with that turbo engine and I'm sure it will sell very well.
The 2.0T is a great engine and I love it in my GS200T. Granted a tune helps a lot but I don't feel like its out of place. Luxury to me is about lack of effort and having a ton of torque low in the rpm range makes it effortless. It doesn't feel at all underpowered, quite the opposite actually as it has a nice shove down low and plentiful torque on tap. Last time I looked at the dyno charts it makes about 50-60 more ft. lbs of torque than the GS350 in the lower rpms. I drive almost exclusively on suburban roads with no highway use so its a great match for my type of driving. Its definitely not an engine to rev past 5000rpm but with the 8 speed and keeping it within 2000-5000rpm, its a lot of fun and great on gas.
04-13-21, 07:13 AM
#33
The 2.0T is nice. I had it in my IS. Loved it until I had the regulator replaced a couple of time. I have seen plug in modules from a few reputable tuning companies that increases the boost to a safe level and in some cases, outperforms the N/A 3.5L. There is nothing wrong with the 2.0T. If Toyota/Lexus made the drivetrain a little more responsive and not programmed the throttle delay, it would be fun to drive.
As far as the 2.5L AWD in the ES, I have no clue why they did that. Maybe they will rectified the issue in the 2022 model with the new D4 system. If so, the 2.5L AWD is just a place holder.
As far as the 2.5L AWD in the ES, I have no clue why they did that. Maybe they will rectified the issue in the 2022 model with the new D4 system. If so, the 2.5L AWD is just a place holder.
04-13-21, 08:03 AM
#34
The 2.0T is nice. I had it in my IS. Loved it until I had the regulator replaced a couple of time. I have seen plug in modules from a few reputable tuning companies that increases the boost to a safe level and in some cases, outperforms the N/A 3.5L. There is nothing wrong with the 2.0T. If Toyota/Lexus made the drivetrain a little more responsive and not programmed the throttle delay, it would be fun to drive.
As far as the 2.5L AWD in the ES, I have no clue why they did that. Maybe they will rectified the issue in the 2022 model with the new D4 system. If so, the 2.5L AWD is just a place holder.
As far as the 2.5L AWD in the ES, I have no clue why they did that. Maybe they will rectified the issue in the 2022 model with the new D4 system. If so, the 2.5L AWD is just a place holder.
04-13-21, 08:41 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah not sure exactly why they went with the NA 2.5L, other than maybe less power is better for inclement weather and FWD? I am assuming those who take the AWD option are driving in the snow.
The 2.0T is a great engine and I love it in my GS200T. Granted a tune helps a lot but I don't feel like its out of place. Luxury to me is about lack of effort and having a ton of torque low in the rpm range makes it effortless. It doesn't feel at all underpowered, quite the opposite actually as it has a nice shove down low and plentiful torque on tap. Last time I looked at the dyno charts it makes about 50-60 more ft. lbs of torque than the GS350 in the lower rpms. I drive almost exclusively on suburban roads with no highway use so its a great match for my type of driving. Its definitely not an engine to rev past 5000rpm but with the 8 speed and keeping it within 2000-5000rpm, its a lot of fun and great on gas.
The 2.0T is a great engine and I love it in my GS200T. Granted a tune helps a lot but I don't feel like its out of place. Luxury to me is about lack of effort and having a ton of torque low in the rpm range makes it effortless. It doesn't feel at all underpowered, quite the opposite actually as it has a nice shove down low and plentiful torque on tap. Last time I looked at the dyno charts it makes about 50-60 more ft. lbs of torque than the GS350 in the lower rpms. I drive almost exclusively on suburban roads with no highway use so its a great match for my type of driving. Its definitely not an engine to rev past 5000rpm but with the 8 speed and keeping it within 2000-5000rpm, its a lot of fun and great on gas.
04-13-21, 09:35 AM
#36
You are one of the very few people that likes the 2.0t engine in the GS, most people don't like it, it got terrible reviews because it is a terrible engine/combination. For someone who mainly just putters around town at low speeds and doesn't care much about engines/smoothness/refinement/performance then it is a acceptable engine, you wouldn't mind it in a LS but that is not what the majority of owners feel or want with these types of cars. Sales of the GS plummeted once they made that 4 cylinder standard, raised the price/lease deals for the 6 cylinder and they just kept falling after that.
Not sure where all the terrible reviews are, I looked at them before I purchased and I also own an NX200t which helped to get me familiar with the engine and realize it can be pretty great with a tune. The Car and Driver review stated "There are fancier and faster choices in the segment, but the GS200t is a solid, pleasant package at an accessible price" and the other reviews seem to fall in line. Obviously the market didn't go for it but it made for a great used car value.
04-13-21, 09:56 AM
#37
GS lived a long Sales Life as a Special car in the class with Excellent Reviews and Sales Gen after Gen and year after year. There was a V6 and a V8 and a AWD Version. Keeping up to date Lexus should have just move into new Tech replacing the V6 with the Hybrid. The GS is not a 2.0T car.
A Real Enthusiastic Car in a 4.6 V8 would have been Special. We were doing Group Buys here on CL on the V8 for the 1UZ -1UR $100 Million dollar Lexus R&D Development Engine 14 years ago. Intake/Headers/Exhaust got that V8 30-40 Bolt on hp. Now you have a 370hp - 390hp GS. The 2-jz 6cly was Supra Motor Turbo Food for the SC300 and GS300. Talking about a Turbo GS? Now a Supra Motor GS like 450hp - 1200hp Real Turbo GS! These were like normal every week in the GS3 SC3, oh I forgot and IS3 Forums.
The 4th Gen GS crowd changed in the GS Forum, (and Lexus)? 4th Gen GSh, GST, GS3, GSF? Now a Drop, Wheels, Springs, Bagged, Mod Forum. Go search here for CL Member Morris 3rd Gen GS430 Turbo V8 that was wiping the Street Whipping Shocked Charger, Challenger, BMW M Drivers and more. lol! Sadly the End of the Too many Engines GS. How I would have loved to have a 4th Gen GS460 V8 to Mod.
It was Suppose to be a Performance Car by Standard.
A Real Enthusiastic Car in a 4.6 V8 would have been Special. We were doing Group Buys here on CL on the V8 for the 1UZ -1UR $100 Million dollar Lexus R&D Development Engine 14 years ago. Intake/Headers/Exhaust got that V8 30-40 Bolt on hp. Now you have a 370hp - 390hp GS. The 2-jz 6cly was Supra Motor Turbo Food for the SC300 and GS300. Talking about a Turbo GS? Now a Supra Motor GS like 450hp - 1200hp Real Turbo GS! These were like normal every week in the GS3 SC3, oh I forgot and IS3 Forums.
The 4th Gen GS crowd changed in the GS Forum, (and Lexus)? 4th Gen GSh, GST, GS3, GSF? Now a Drop, Wheels, Springs, Bagged, Mod Forum. Go search here for CL Member Morris 3rd Gen GS430 Turbo V8 that was wiping the Street Whipping Shocked Charger, Challenger, BMW M Drivers and more. lol! Sadly the End of the Too many Engines GS. How I would have loved to have a 4th Gen GS460 V8 to Mod.
It was Suppose to be a Performance Car by Standard.
04-13-21, 10:03 AM
#38
I care about engines and like to work on them (but not as much as I used to), hence the tune that really helped a lot. The GS replaced a 550HP V8 sedan that I had modded myself and I don't regret the purchase. Its very smooth and refined and the performance is pretty good for what it is. It hits 80mph before I know it and I never have a lack of power issue, its always on tap with the low end torque and 8 speed transmission. The chassis of the GS makes it very fun to drive. Its likely quicker than the GS350 0-60 when tuned but I haven't measured anything, just based on feel from test drives. I'll take the 60 ft/lb low end torque advantage any day.
Not sure where all the terrible reviews are, I looked at them before I purchased and I also own an NX200t which helped to get me familiar with the engine and realize it can be pretty great with a tune. The Car and Driver review stated "There are fancier and faster choices in the segment, but the GS200t is a solid, pleasant package at an accessible price" and the other reviews seem to fall in line. Obviously the market didn't go for it but it made for a great used car value.
Not sure where all the terrible reviews are, I looked at them before I purchased and I also own an NX200t which helped to get me familiar with the engine and realize it can be pretty great with a tune. The Car and Driver review stated "There are fancier and faster choices in the segment, but the GS200t is a solid, pleasant package at an accessible price" and the other reviews seem to fall in line. Obviously the market didn't go for it but it made for a great used car value.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexu...-drive-review/It's also important to note that the GS 200t is quite competitive in its class. Take a BMW 528i, for example. Power and fuel economy are nearly the same, but the BMW needs just 6.2 seconds to reach 60 mph from a stop to the Lexus' manufacturer-estimated 7.0 seconds. The Lexus, though, is about $5,000 cheaper. The numbers, then, are mixed, but it's not a bad showing at all for the GS 200t.
Out in the world, how you feel about the GS 200t will depend entirely on your driving style. If, like many Lexus owners, you are a Retiree or happen to drive like one, you'll find the GS 200t perfectly suitable.
It was a relaxed and relaxing driving experience, and perfectly pleasant if you're not in any great hurry to get somewhere.
Should you be in a hurry -- or just a more aggressive driver -- you will feel differently. While the GS 200t wafts away from a stop under light or moderate throttle, trying to jack rabbit away with heavy throttle will only end in frustration. Nail the pedal, and you'll find there's nobody home under 2,000 rpm and nothing really gets interesting until 3,000. If you're expecting a burst of acceleration, it's going to feel like ages before the engine responds. This is turbo lag, and it's ugly.
04-13-21, 11:37 AM
#39
241hp 2.0T.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexu...-drive-review/It's also important to note that the GS 200t is quite competitive in its class. Take a BMW 528i, for example. Power and fuel economy are nearly the same, but the BMW needs just 6.2 seconds to reach 60 mph from a stop to the Lexus' manufacturer-estimated 7.0 seconds. The Lexus, though, is about $5,000 cheaper. The numbers, then, are mixed, but it's not a bad showing at all for the GS 200t.
Out in the world, how you feel about the GS 200t will depend entirely on your driving style. If, like many Lexus owners, you are a Retiree or happen to drive like one, you'll find the GS 200t perfectly suitable.
It was a relaxed and relaxing driving experience, and perfectly pleasant if you're not in any great hurry to get somewhere.
Should you be in a hurry -- or just a more aggressive driver -- you will feel differently. While the GS 200t wafts away from a stop under light or moderate throttle, trying to jack rabbit away with heavy throttle will only end in frustration. Nail the pedal, and you'll find there's nobody home under 2,000 rpm and nothing really gets interesting until 3,000. If you're expecting a burst of acceleration, it's going to feel like ages before the engine responds. This is turbo lag, and it's ugly.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexu...-drive-review/It's also important to note that the GS 200t is quite competitive in its class. Take a BMW 528i, for example. Power and fuel economy are nearly the same, but the BMW needs just 6.2 seconds to reach 60 mph from a stop to the Lexus' manufacturer-estimated 7.0 seconds. The Lexus, though, is about $5,000 cheaper. The numbers, then, are mixed, but it's not a bad showing at all for the GS 200t.
Out in the world, how you feel about the GS 200t will depend entirely on your driving style. If, like many Lexus owners, you are a Retiree or happen to drive like one, you'll find the GS 200t perfectly suitable.
It was a relaxed and relaxing driving experience, and perfectly pleasant if you're not in any great hurry to get somewhere.
Should you be in a hurry -- or just a more aggressive driver -- you will feel differently. While the GS 200t wafts away from a stop under light or moderate throttle, trying to jack rabbit away with heavy throttle will only end in frustration. Nail the pedal, and you'll find there's nobody home under 2,000 rpm and nothing really gets interesting until 3,000. If you're expecting a burst of acceleration, it's going to feel like ages before the engine responds. This is turbo lag, and it's ugly.
Anyways, back to the topic at hand, the 2.0T would have been an even better choice in the ES over the 2.5.
Last edited by BMGS; 04-13-21 at 12:04 PM.
04-13-21, 01:10 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
I think they just took the cheapest route by taking the Camry 4 cylinder with AWD and popped it in. My dealer doesn't even stock the ES350 anymore. It's all ES300h and ES250 AWD models. Shame.
04-13-21, 01:22 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Oh.. No more 350? Glad I got one already then. As bad as it is, it's still way better than 4 cyl only. 
That 2.5L should have never made it to the Lexus line up.
Lexus = 1 step forward, 3 step backward and that hasn't changed
That 2.5L should have never made it to the Lexus line up.
Lexus = 1 step forward, 3 step backward and that hasn't changed
04-13-21, 01:23 PM
#42
The ES 350 is only 1/10 of a Sec 0 - 60 slower than the GS350. That's called a Driver Race. IIRC its 5.8 vs 5.9 Sec's. lol!
Just for Reference I'm just giving some facts, I think just the 200T tune took it from a 200hp Dyno car to a 226hp Car. What's the use? Not exactly a 2-jz type improvement. Note I did not write the MT Article. I'm sorry a Big Heavy 4th Gen GS deserved better than a 2.0T.
Just for Reference I'm just giving some facts, I think just the 200T tune took it from a 200hp Dyno car to a 226hp Car. What's the use? Not exactly a 2-jz type improvement. Note I did not write the MT Article. I'm sorry a Big Heavy 4th Gen GS deserved better than a 2.0T.
Last edited by jgscott; 04-13-21 at 01:29 PM.
The following users liked this post:
JDR76 (04-13-21)
04-13-21, 01:37 PM
#45
A Lag should have been a update ECU Flash loaded by Lexus sent to be done by Lexus Dealers themselves.