2013 Lexus GS350Ever wondered what original spark plugs look like at 107,0XX miles
03-04-22, 11:05 AM
#16
Instructor
If you want better mileage, put 5PSI more in your tires, take everything you don't need out of the trunk and drive like there is an egg under your right foot. I regularly pull down high 20s on the highway and manage 19MPG in town driving.
03-04-22, 11:13 AM
#17
03-04-22, 12:00 PM
#18
So... RR has had tons of years and experience with all the Lexus Engines and ECU's. The more efficient your engine Map is running the more power it makes, and the better gas mileage it gets. Due to it's efficiency and ECU Timing, fuel curve TB air, MAF sensor, O2 sensors and so on. A old plug is going to run. A old plug after 106K miles is Not going to be as efficient as a New plug. With that simply put, the ECU effects all of those things by what's being fed back to it. Thus it allows and controls mileage and performance. The more Advanced your Timing is...... the better your Engine is. If the ECU allows the timing MAP to advance as much Advance as programmed guess what you get? Its called - "KCLV... stands for “Knock Correction Learn Value.”
The IS350, ISF, GS F, RC350, RC F 3rd Gen GS350, and GS460, CL Forums here, and others all talk about this all the time and improve their KCLV all the time. Only here do we say no need to this, no need to that all the time. My KCLV stays at around 24-25 all the time. So yes the plug age does affect Gas mileage 100% with a 100K mileage plus plug in duty still. Among other things. There are Tons of Threads on how to improve your KCLV, starting with your plugs on Lexus's and other cars too. I hate to say it but, again we have answers with Zero experience, vs Tons of experience. For the Record I am not talking about me nor specifically anyone posted here. With that I say - "No Caps"! lol!
How much fuel the ECU sends and the Timing 100% directly effects Gas mileage all day everyday.
http://blog.rr-racing.com/news/2017/...on-lexus-ecus/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...d-power-3.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...rn-values.html
Last edited by jgscott; 03-04-22 at 02:10 PM.
03-04-22, 02:02 PM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
Only one way to find out... Change them out and see if u can get better gas mileage.
If not, put the old ones back in and u will have spare plugs for when they're actually failing.
If not, put the old ones back in and u will have spare plugs for when they're actually failing.
03-04-22, 02:12 PM
#20
Greetings,
I just recently (2 weeks ago today) purchased a one owner 2013 Lexus GS350 which was meticulously serviced at the Lexus dealership...except new spark plugs! Nevertheless, I watched a few DYI spark plug changes on You Tube and decided to change them out since I did the regular maintenance when I get a new to me vehicle. New in cabin filter, engine filter, tires rotated and balance, all wheel aliment which I did not need since it was so spot on. Oil change, brake pads, transmission fluid changed, rear end fluid change all done by the dealer before purchase. Back to the sparks plugs! What do you guys think????
I just recently (2 weeks ago today) purchased a one owner 2013 Lexus GS350 which was meticulously serviced at the Lexus dealership...except new spark plugs! Nevertheless, I watched a few DYI spark plug changes on You Tube and decided to change them out since I did the regular maintenance when I get a new to me vehicle. New in cabin filter, engine filter, tires rotated and balance, all wheel aliment which I did not need since it was so spot on. Oil change, brake pads, transmission fluid changed, rear end fluid change all done by the dealer before purchase. Back to the sparks plugs! What do you guys think????
Last edited by jgscott; 03-04-22 at 02:29 PM.
03-04-22, 03:00 PM
#21
Hey I'll just give you some correct fact info for you to decide for yourself before, a thread like this is searched and found for years, and is being derailed off the original op's topic.
So... RR has had tons of years and experience with all the Lexus Engines and ECU's. The more efficient your engine Map is running the more power it makes, and the better gas mileage it gets. Due to it's efficiency and ECU Timing, fuel curve TB air, MAF sensor, O2 sensors and so on. A old plug is going to run. A old plug after 106K miles is Not going to be as efficient as a New plug. With that simply put, the ECU effects all of those things by what's being fed back to it. Thus it allows and controls mileage and performance. The more Advanced your Timing is...... the better your Engine is. If the ECU allows the timing MAP to advance as much Advance as programmed guess what you get? Its called - "KCLV... stands for “Knock Correction Learn Value.”
The IS350, ISF, GS F, RC350, RC F 3rd Gen GS350, and GS460, CL Forums here, and others all talk about this all the time and improve their KCLV all the time. Only here do we say no need to this, no need to that all the time. My KCLV stays at around 24-25 all the time. So yes the plug age does affect Gas mileage 100% with a 100K mileage plus plug in duty still. Among other things. There are Tons of Threads on how to improve your KCLV, starting with your plugs on Lexus's and other cars too. I hate to say it but, again we have answers with Zero experience, vs Tons of experience. For the Record I am not talking about me nor specifically anyone posted here. With that I say - "No Caps"! lol!
How much fuel the ECU sends and the Timing 100% directly effects Gas mileage all day everyday.
http://blog.rr-racing.com/news/2017/...on-lexus-ecus/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...d-power-3.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...rn-values.html
So... RR has had tons of years and experience with all the Lexus Engines and ECU's. The more efficient your engine Map is running the more power it makes, and the better gas mileage it gets. Due to it's efficiency and ECU Timing, fuel curve TB air, MAF sensor, O2 sensors and so on. A old plug is going to run. A old plug after 106K miles is Not going to be as efficient as a New plug. With that simply put, the ECU effects all of those things by what's being fed back to it. Thus it allows and controls mileage and performance. The more Advanced your Timing is...... the better your Engine is. If the ECU allows the timing MAP to advance as much Advance as programmed guess what you get? Its called - "KCLV... stands for “Knock Correction Learn Value.”
The IS350, ISF, GS F, RC350, RC F 3rd Gen GS350, and GS460, CL Forums here, and others all talk about this all the time and improve their KCLV all the time. Only here do we say no need to this, no need to that all the time. My KCLV stays at around 24-25 all the time. So yes the plug age does affect Gas mileage 100% with a 100K mileage plus plug in duty still. Among other things. There are Tons of Threads on how to improve your KCLV, starting with your plugs on Lexus's and other cars too. I hate to say it but, again we have answers with Zero experience, vs Tons of experience. For the Record I am not talking about me nor specifically anyone posted here. With that I say - "No Caps"! lol!
How much fuel the ECU sends and the Timing 100% directly effects Gas mileage all day everyday.
http://blog.rr-racing.com/news/2017/...on-lexus-ecus/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...d-power-3.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...rn-values.html
Some will say "New spark plugs help improve efficiency of combustion, which is a factor in improving your MPG"
Others will say "If it has a misfire replace, if not, no. The performance impact of a new plug vs an old working plug is in practical terms zero."
Just like OP, I'm a fan of having my car in the best working condition possible, so I'll go ahead and change mine too since I'm at 106K.
03-04-22, 03:32 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
The GS is most happiest on an empty highway with nobody in it. Gets like 28-30 MPG easy.
The following users liked this post:
repugnante (03-05-22)
03-04-22, 03:44 PM
#24
Yeah.. I've researched and have always seen different answers online.
Some will say "New spark plugs help improve efficiency of combustion, which is a factor in improving your MPG"
Others will say "If it has a misfire replace, if not, no. The performance impact of a new plug vs an old working plug is in practical terms zero."
Just like OP, I'm a fan of having my car in the best working condition possible, so I'll go ahead and change mine too since I'm at 106K.
Some will say "New spark plugs help improve efficiency of combustion, which is a factor in improving your MPG"
Others will say "If it has a misfire replace, if not, no. The performance impact of a new plug vs an old working plug is in practical terms zero."
Just like OP, I'm a fan of having my car in the best working condition possible, so I'll go ahead and change mine too since I'm at 106K.
Ask them if they have had care Free Lexus's from 150k to 289k? I have.
Ask them if they have had the Data to look at regarding the ECU Engine and other like RR has.
Ask if their opinion is backed up by anything at all? Lots of Data and proof of. Show me that data, (not a internet statement) that says different than the data that does?
Ask if you don't change the plugs and have the same plugs, 100k plus. How would you know what the old plus vs new plugs results are?
Ask yourself? lol!
03-04-22, 04:28 PM
#25
Instructor
Some say there is No difference between a Lexus vs a Toyota. They likely should have bought a carefree Toyota and saved even more money. Why did they spend more money based on that kinda of thinking. Why upgrade phones? They both make calls text and internet and so on.
Ask them if they have had care Free Lexus's from 150k to 289k? I have.
Ask them if they have had the Data to look at regarding the ECU Engine and other like RR has.
Ask if their opinion is backed up by anything at all? Lots of Data and proof of. Show me that data, (not a internet statement) that says different than the data that does?
Ask if you don't change the plugs and have the same plugs, 100k plus. How would you know what the old plus vs new plugs results are?
Ask yourself? lol!
Ask them if they have had care Free Lexus's from 150k to 289k? I have.
Ask them if they have had the Data to look at regarding the ECU Engine and other like RR has.
Ask if their opinion is backed up by anything at all? Lots of Data and proof of. Show me that data, (not a internet statement) that says different than the data that does?
Ask if you don't change the plugs and have the same plugs, 100k plus. How would you know what the old plus vs new plugs results are?
Ask yourself? lol!
A spark plug makes a spark. Period. That's all it does. It either sparks or it doesn't. All the crazy plug designs and different electrodes marketed to get 20% better fuel economy are bunk. Other than the change to needle tip modern plugs in the last 40 years, there has been very little real, measurable improvement in the basic plug for 100 years. The biggest improvements have come in precise timing control, multiple sparks over a number of degrees of crank rotation and the precisely metered fuel/air mixture.
Fresh plugs will look like the 100K mile plugs much faster than people imagine. I've been dealing with internal combustion engines for 50 years. Everything from lawn mowers, dirt bikes, domestic and import engines. When we went to unleaded gas, spark plugs started lasting much, much longer. Fuel injection improved plug life even longer because we no longer ran rich and carboned up the plugs or ran too lean and melted them.
I used to change my plugs before every trip to the track. After a pass down the track, I used to pull a few plugs to read them for rich or lean, detonation, too cold or too hot heat range. They look like the 100K plugs.
Once I didn't have time and it made no measurable difference in my ET or MPH. The same thing happened when I wasn't feeling like uncapping my headers. I run dual 3" exhaust with no loss in power. The ET and MPH were within the normal range. As a matter of fact, I ran my best MPH and ET without uncapping the headers on old plugs.
03-04-22, 07:31 PM
#26
Changing the plugs won't hurt. If they looked like what was shown, there won't be any improvement either. If you find a plug that looks markedly different, you may have a problem but there were likely other signs before the spark plug confirmed it.
A spark plug makes a spark. Period. That's all it does. It either sparks or it doesn't. All the crazy plug designs and different electrodes marketed to get 20% better fuel economy are bunk. Other than the change to needle tip modern plugs in the last 40 years, there has been very little real, measurable improvement in the basic plug for 100 years. The biggest improvements have come in precise timing control, multiple sparks over a number of degrees of crank rotation and the precisely metered fuel/air mixture.
Fresh plugs will look like the 100K mile plugs much faster than people imagine. I've been dealing with internal combustion engines for 50 years. Everything from lawn mowers, dirt bikes, domestic and import engines. When we went to unleaded gas, spark plugs started lasting much, much longer. Fuel injection improved plug life even longer because we no longer ran rich and carboned up the plugs or ran too lean and melted them.
I used to change my plugs before every trip to the track. After a pass down the track, I used to pull a few plugs to read them for rich or lean, detonation, too cold or too hot heat range. They look like the 100K plugs.
Once I didn't have time and it made no measurable difference in my ET or MPH. The same thing happened when I wasn't feeling like uncapping my headers. I run dual 3" exhaust with no loss in power. The ET and MPH were within the normal range. As a matter of fact, I ran my best MPH and ET without uncapping the headers on old plugs.
A spark plug makes a spark. Period. That's all it does. It either sparks or it doesn't. All the crazy plug designs and different electrodes marketed to get 20% better fuel economy are bunk. Other than the change to needle tip modern plugs in the last 40 years, there has been very little real, measurable improvement in the basic plug for 100 years. The biggest improvements have come in precise timing control, multiple sparks over a number of degrees of crank rotation and the precisely metered fuel/air mixture.
Fresh plugs will look like the 100K mile plugs much faster than people imagine. I've been dealing with internal combustion engines for 50 years. Everything from lawn mowers, dirt bikes, domestic and import engines. When we went to unleaded gas, spark plugs started lasting much, much longer. Fuel injection improved plug life even longer because we no longer ran rich and carboned up the plugs or ran too lean and melted them.
I used to change my plugs before every trip to the track. After a pass down the track, I used to pull a few plugs to read them for rich or lean, detonation, too cold or too hot heat range. They look like the 100K plugs.
Once I didn't have time and it made no measurable difference in my ET or MPH. The same thing happened when I wasn't feeling like uncapping my headers. I run dual 3" exhaust with no loss in power. The ET and MPH were within the normal range. As a matter of fact, I ran my best MPH and ET without uncapping the headers on old plugs.
Obviously you can't be talking a new Gen GS350 car because you cant adjust the rich/lean unless you have a ECU Tune to adjust with. You have said in many threads a ECU Tune would do nothing, as you do in just about everything here in every thread so we know you don't have the capability to adjust. Now as you mentioned, the ECU does this, if it has efficient inputs. So Bingo! To sum this up it would be like a Gamer buying the latest fastest gaming Computer. Telling them there is no need to upgrade the 30mbps Cable Internet speed they can still play and compete.
In regards to your best run,...... likely the Atmosphere was idea that day for your air/fuel mixture that day is all. Nothing to do with Old plugs. To say you ran your best time with old plugs and capped, tells me something in your setup was not Tuned and/or optimized at all correctly. Your ET could be affected by so many things like your 60 foot time and reaction time. It could have been your Tires and track temperature. I am surprised you would discount and ignore such things that everyone at a track knows, and claim your old plugs resulted in your best times. I would not tell the LS1TECH guys this. They would lol, so hard. Everyone would be looking for Old plugs to Go Faster! Just does not make any sense at all, sorry. This is just so far against what engine designers work for in efficiency.
BTW: A spark is not just a spark. Pro Engine builder work 100 plus hours to get that spark right to burn in the Combustion chamber. Tell a engine that needs Colder heat range plugs it does not and that a spark is just a spark. I think the biggest problem here is that Lexus advises to change to new plugs. Reading your post would have some thinking there is no need to change them. A Lexus will Not run better with 100K plus old plugs vs New.
03-04-22, 08:08 PM
#27
Nice job swapping the plugs. Our car, a '13 F Sport, had them done at 60K.
03-04-22, 10:28 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
All this talk about tuning a GS350... I'm still waiting to see a drag race between a tuned GS350 vs. a stock GS350. Just want to see if it actually does anything other than placebo effect.
How long do I have to wait?! I'm running out of popcorn here.
How long do I have to wait?! I'm running out of popcorn here.
The following users liked this post:
Knucklebus (03-05-22)
03-05-22, 07:10 AM
#29
Now with that, the D3 Tune has a money back guarantee. Also are you in Cali? Now don't tell me there are no modded Tuned car in Cali. Get one! lol!
Last edited by jgscott; 03-05-22 at 04:47 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post