jgscott

iTrader: (1)

Again, I would ask for the Service Manager and sit down and talk with them, and ask. (ex.) - where did the metal come from, bottom end, or top end? If they are reusing the Heads will they please clean all the Carbon build up before reinstalling. Again if???? At this point you do not know. It maybe in fact a complete engine. IDK, but thats who I would ask. We are not the ones getting it nor doing the work. So how would we know, in spite of some of the answers you were given here.

Personally I still would not buy any new parts to go along. I does not make sense to me. Just saying is all. What I would do is take pics of anything that was not scratched or damaged that was Not when I gave them the car, and I would let them know up front that I took pics and please don't create anything that was Not there before. I think you will be ok.

bclexus

@LexusDrago

Just to make sure you know - A short block engine package typically includes the engine block, crank, and pistons. The term short block originates from the engine's shorter list of components.

A long block engine includes all of the parts of the short block package with the addition of major engine components like the cylinder heads, camshaft(s), and valve-train. Depending, it might also include the intake manifold, water pump, etc. but no accessory components like the alternator.

A crate engine on the other hand is a fully assembled engine usually shipped from the manufacturer to the installer in a crate. All the installer has to do is basically fit it into a vehicle engine bay, tighten it to some engine mounts and hook up some lines and harnesses, turn the key, and drive off. In addition to the parts that come with a long block, a turn-key crate engine package usually includes things like spark plugs, airflow sensors, and other various bits and pieces.


To answer your question of why I would not want to use the same block and having new components installed in the old block (in other words rebuilding the engine using the old block)...actually there are lots of reasons to be wary of a engine block in which the engine was troubled or failed, which I doubt you'll need to be concerned about. Some items of concern when using an old block that was problematic or failed would be; heat in various areas (cylinder walls, crankshaft bearing lands) causing metal fatigue, microscopic stress cracks in the block, a warped block alignment which might have caused a key alignment issue to be off just a little which could have been the cause of the original engine to fail. To be perfectly confident in using a block from a troubled or failed engine really requires it to be boiled out, stress crack magnafluxed with penetrant dye, and blueprint checked to the exact specifications it was originally made to have. It's actually safer to rebuild an engine by using a used block that had no known history of failure. In your particular case, your engine was known to have failed for an unknown reason. That said, is it sound advice to rebuild the engine (even using new parts) using the same block? Some would be okay with it, and some would not.

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

In addition to a few other things.... I hope it's just a typo being responded to, because its a 2GR-FKS in the 16-20 GS350, not 2GR-KFS to be replaced with. Just about No dealership service department rebuilds any bottom end blocks anyone. I would be shocked to hear they are. So that's one thing I would not even focus on or worry about.

I was just my friends house helping him install some Coilovers on his 16 GS350, that I tried to talk him out of getting, and his neighbor is a Certified Toyota Master Tech and he stopped by. I asked him about engine replace in service and said what they do. I'll wait to see if you talk to the Lexus service Mangers to see what they say? I think you will be content with what I think they are going to do in your case.

Cwang

Why on earth would they have a 2GR-FKS in the state? What dealer would shell out 5 figures incase they have to replace a whole FKS? Lucky for you!

dkraines

Yeah, isn't 70K the limit for certified, that's definitely the top end. In any event, by buying certified, apparently it's working for you well, as you are getting the engine replaced free of charge.

Tom44

I would get the car fixed and trade in/sell for something else. There are no guarantees on the quality of the repair. Ripping the car apart and putting it back together? No thanks. Let someone else deal with these headaches.

Knucklebus

It is a Lexus and, if the repairs are done properly, it will continue to be a good car. Swapping engines isn't rocket science. There are a lot of electrical connections in addition to the mechanical ones but it is still just a car. Any decent mechanic should be able to do this job with a high degree of success.

bclexus

@Cwang , @LexusDrago

I'm actually surprised to hear the engine failed! It's a proven, highly reliable, well-designed brute of an engine. I'm also surprised to hear the Lexus dealership has a brand new engine supposedly in stock. Even more surprising to me is to hear the dealership will be replacing the OP's engine with 70k miles on it with purportedly a brand new engine in a 7 year-old car that in my judgment never should have been L/Certified or even been on the dealership's pre-owned lot... Obviously, the fact that the car was recently sold as a L/Certified vehicle is a factor in how this issue is being dealt with. However, considering the car is a 2016 model with 70k miles and long since out-of-warranty I would have thought Lexus would probably have treated the failed engine somewhat similar to how they usually handle a failed transmission that needs to be replaced - which is to have a local reputable transmission shop rebuild the existing transmission (at no charge if it was still under warranty or with a charge (as a service to the customer) if the warranty had already expired - and then provide the owner with a warranty for the remaining time it is under factory warranty, or an extended warranty or the L/C warranty.

In the OP's case, replacing the failed engine with an engine from a low mileage wrecked car could be a reasonable equivalency to how failed transmissions are handled. I strongly believe if it was a failed transmission the owner was dealing with (instead of the engine) the replacement would be a rebuilt transmission, not a brand new transmission.


As mentioned, obviously the fact that the car was recently sold as a L/Certified vehicle by the dealership is a factor in how the dealership or Lexus corporate is dealing with this unfortunate issue. In the case of a failed engine, however, it is a little different compared to a failed transmission. Transmissions are commonly rebuilt by a local transmission shop which are commonplace in most areas, whereas rebuilding an engine is not nearly as common and usually requires a shop specializing in engine rebuilding which is not generally as common. I could see the dealership wanting to replace the failed engine with an engine from a low mileage wrecked car with much less mileage than the failed engine had and offering the owner a modified extended warranty on the replaced engine. Probably most people would be okay with a replacement engine that has only [say] 25k miles on it to replace their failed engine that had 70k miles on it. Even as an OCD type, I would most likely agree to that if the new engine offer had never been brought up in the first place...

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

It could be Top and or Bottom. Crank, bearings, piston rings, cylinder walls or other. The metal could create the the problem everywhere.

bclexus

Yes, I think 70k miles is the upper or 'top end' (as you refer to it) mileage limit for a L/Certified vehicle. I think most Lexus dealerships would have sold that 70k mile, 7 year-old car at auction instead of L/Certifying it and putting it on their pre-owned lot and trying to sell it. Not a very smart decision in my opinion...

LexusDrago

I’m planning to visit them tomorrow and figure out precisely if it’s a long / short / block / crate engine they’re putting in and precisely what they would be replacing. I’ll update the thread to let you guys know!

Yes, its a 2GR-FKS. So in your opinion I shouldn’t worry too much on whether its a long/short/crate block engine? You just in your above message that I should worry about it and ask the service manager 🤔.

It seems like more than half of Toyota/Lexus's current models use this engine, including some heavy sellers like the Tacoma. So I guess it's not that weird that they have one in stock?

I actually don’t view it this way at all. I bought an L/Certified car so that LEXUS would do the due diligence needed and I would have a relatively problem free car. Had I bought a non certified vehicle, I would have had it much more thoroughly examined and would certainly have caught this issue before purchase.

The way I see it, the Lexus dealer massively dropped the ball and gave me a clearly damaged ‘certified’ car that I now have to chase around with warranty claims to get fixed.

Provided the original dealership extends the L/C warranty for two more years (or even if they don't), I'll probably stick with the car as it's in good shape otherwise. I have the warranty as a back up option.

Yes, I suspect the new engine might be due to the car being purchased very recently as L/Certified. I did pester them repeatedly on whether it would be new or used, and was told that the parts department confirmed that it would be a brand new engine.

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

I said you should sit and talk to the Service Manager because you talked the the Service writer and parts and were still unsure of what you were getting and were asking here, where no one would know?

I actually said... I Don't think you should worry about it, other than taking pics to show before and after, just in case. I'm not sure why you said I said you should worry about it? If you read back, I Never said that.

If you have a 99% accuracy rate on 9000 things.That means likely there are 90 that are bad. Nothing is Perfect even Pursued.

cnc369

you just got a brand new long block engine, i have no idea what you are worried about. the new engine is going to come with is own separate warranty, so good luck in arguing with the dealer for extending your certified pre-owned warranty another 2 years. even if it's lexus certified and had all its maintenance records it doesn't mean the previous owner wasn't a douche and abused the vehicle. there is no way the dealer or the tech would even know the internal condition of the motor prior to sale just because it makes a ticking noise as you claimed. obviously the noise wasn't loud enough for it to be an initial issue as the mechanical high pressure fuel pump is typically pretty loud when you start up these cars. if you are not happy with the car, sell it, used car prices are holding and the next guy can get a car with a fresh virgin engine.

MGs350

This is why I also prefer certified. I don't mind paying a little extra to have the warranty worry free for two years with unlimited milage..

Maybe this was mentioned but what kinda warranty are they providing with the new engine? Or would it expire at the end of the certification warranty?

Nalod

It seems like a bad situation is being fairly remedied which is not a terrible thing. I said “Fair”.
Using the word “I DEMANDED” might be strong and your not really dealing from a position of strength with leverage to do so.
I would negotiate with reason. That said If there are parts that need to be added or replaced perhaps pay for them yourself with them covering the labor.
Ask for things. Inquire about things your concerned about. Thats reasonable. Ask. Tell them why your concerned. Then offer a compromise. New parts without the labor puts you in a good place. Its fair. Its not were you’d like to be but you try and keep trying.
They do want to make you happy. They phuched up and sold you a bad car. The repairs will have a warranty attached to them on their own.
Be honest and tell them your a bit defensive and want a mapping and verification of parts, fluids, etc that is chnged and if you pay for additions “How do we go about verifying they are done”. This sets a good tone and welcomes them to please you.
good luck and hope your have a good outcome with your car fo many years!