Lexus debuts 2016 GS F
#151
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Exactly. That's how it peaked my early interest in lexus and it lured me into the dealer without even have to test drive and what not.
But that's generally good enough for these people with $$$ to buy them. The stats, the brand, the prestige. That's how they get "lured" into the dealer. Having weak numbers, you have to "explain" yourself.
Business is business. Lexus has to cater to the majority of the buyers. Us picky enthusiasts who are content are too small of a number for them to survive![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I am content with the new GS F-sport. But with this GS F, sounding like a broken record, I want it to have more.
If lexus is strategically coming out with an FS, I will eat my shoes to replace my words![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
And that's the vicious cycle right there is just like the GS460. It wasn't competitive so it was canceled (correct me if I'm way wrong
). Had it been competitive from the start, they would've sold more.
Just like this new GS F, the big stats can lure more potential customers without having to work as hard.
When you're building something new, you might as well want it to succeed from the start don't you rather willing to take a loss since it will be sold in small numbers anyways???
Business is business. Lexus has to cater to the majority of the buyers. Us picky enthusiasts who are content are too small of a number for them to survive
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
If lexus is strategically coming out with an FS, I will eat my shoes to replace my words
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
When you create a half baked product, its easier to just say we are building our own thing and following our path here, rather than tell the truth and say that we are way behind in the engine department. Lexus created this problem, no one forced them or told them not invest in new engines. The GS-F is fine car, the problem is under the hood, the same can be said about the rest of the line up. Just be because you received the awards for your engines 10 years ago, does not mean you should stop there. That's exactly what Lexus did.
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Just like this new GS F, the big stats can lure more potential customers without having to work as hard.
When you're building something new, you might as well want it to succeed from the start don't you rather willing to take a loss since it will be sold in small numbers anyways???
#152
Lexus Fanatic
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Was that why the E550 was cancelled, it was never competitive from the start? Or was it that buying attitudes had shifted and buyers weren't as interested in V8 luxury cars as they had been?
#153
Super Moderator
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Actually we still have the E550 in Canada and likely most of the rest of the world, so maybe it's just the USA market, where most just go with the 6 cylinder or just jump to the E63 ?
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
#154
Lead Lap
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Actually we still have the E550 in Canada and likely most of the rest of the world, so maybe it's just the USA market, where most just go with the 6 cylinder or just jump to the E63 ?
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 01-07-15 at 10:41 AM. Reason: correcting quoting typos
#155
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But for starters, number wasn't even that great for a V8.
![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
When I saw the numbers for the 460, I couldn't even get excited about it
![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
Back then, gosh here I go again, the GS300 was 210hp while the GS400 was 300. That was a worthy jump in hp
![EEK!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/eek1.gif)
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#156
Lead Lap
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I wondered about that too and should've put that into my last post.
But for starters, number wasn't even that great for a V8.![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
When I saw the numbers for the 460, I couldn't even get excited about it![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
Back then, gosh here I go again, the GS300 was 210hp while the GS400 was 300. That was a worthy jump in hp![EEK!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/eek1.gif)
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
But for starters, number wasn't even that great for a V8.
![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
When I saw the numbers for the 460, I couldn't even get excited about it
![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
Back then, gosh here I go again, the GS300 was 210hp while the GS400 was 300. That was a worthy jump in hp
![EEK!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/eek1.gif)
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
E550- 402hp/443tq
That's a pretty significant bump...unless I misunderstood your post, which is entirely possible.
#159
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And at the time the E63 and C63 still had the most powerful engines in their respective classes. No one ever complained that they stuffed the giant E63s motor into the tiny C63. Also the E63 had 518 hp to the C63s 457. A fair and respectable trade off for the lighter cheaper car. Also 61 hp is a significant difference in tuning. That could have put the GS-F at 528 Hp.
#160
Advanced
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I wonder if I/H/E will be able to get the revised 5.0 mill over the "magical" 500hp number? I know the ISF's respond very well to these mods but I suspect the newer version of the 5.0 already has better headers and exhaust to get its 50hp bump. It would have been great if Lexus would have increased the displacement to 5.2 or 5.5L for the GSF, that should have made an easy 525hp+ and would have made it more "special."
#161
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Lexus is always doing their own thing... I think you misunderstood cheif engineer when saying that they did not benchmark directly against M4 - they built RC-F based on what they wanted to do and then compared it to M4. BMW on the other hand, made their own and different decisions. This is why Lexus brings M4 to every dealer training and thats why they will also bring M5 to GS-F trainings.
Same will go for GS-F and M5. M5 will be a lot faster in straights, and GS-F will be a lot nimbler in curves, as well $30k easier on the valet.
Same will go for GS-F and M5. M5 will be a lot faster in straights, and GS-F will be a lot nimbler in curves, as well $30k easier on the valet.
simply put, just picture that on the gsf. who wants to bet if people are going to say 550i or m5?
wait, where's the different tune here?
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
personally if it's the same engine but pushing 500 on the gsf? i probably wouldn't have made 3/4 of the posts i have made in this thread.
and yes, i am sure the chassis can handle it because it's superior
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Actually we still have the E550 in Canada and likely most of the rest of the world, so maybe it's just the USA market, where most just go with the 6 cylinder or just jump to the E63 ?
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I wonder if I/H/E will be able to get the revised 5.0 mill over the "magical" 500hp number? I know the ISF's respond very well to these mods but I suspect the newer version of the 5.0 already has better headers and exhaust to get its 50hp bump. It would have been great if Lexus would have increased the displacement to 5.2 or 5.5L for the GSF, that should have made an easy 525hp+ and would have made it more "special."
#162
Lexus Fanatic
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I expected there to be complaints about power but not so overwhelming disappointment.
The way I see it the GS F has potential if priced right.
There is no way Lexus was going toe to toe with the M5 or E63AMG their first time out with a top end GS. Lexus is still not a direct German competitor and not prestigious enough as a brand to charge around 100K for a mid level sedan no matter how much hp it makes, yes a couple dozen people on CL may buy it who could afford it but the buying pubic is not going to spend that kind of money on a Lexus. The LS is still a notch below the S class, A8, or 7 series, it is a great car but just not at their level or offers what they have offered like 12 cylinders, big V8 power, etc not to mention the top end lower volume cars/engines those German companies have offered that Lexus does not so expecting Lexus to be a direct competitor to the high dollar German power sedans with power, performance, price was a little unrealistic. It is not how Lexus does things.
The GS lost its V8 option which looking at the very low sales of the hybrid GS was probably a mistake but it lost its V8 while the Germans have still offered some kind of V8, this GS F is not only going for the high performance sedan market but it is also offering GS buyers a V8 version and hopefully not at some insane price. What if the GS F base price is around $75K, then I see it as a very good buy, it may not have the 500+hp as the Germans but it will also cost much less, won't be a gas guzzler, and will be much more reliable while offering great performance. This is a version of the GS I feel Lexus needs right now, Japanese rival Infiniti Q70 has offered more power/performance/V8 power then the GS so the GS F addresses that, hell even Acura has the hybrid version of the RLX making more power and performing better then any current version of the GS350.
I know many are complaining that they just dropped the engine from the RC-F into a bigger more expensive car but most of the IS/RC rivals are now going FI 6 cylinder instead of a NA V8 which I don't think many were complaining about Lexus staying with the V8. If Lexus copied and dropped a turbo V6 in the RC-F with around 430hp then the 467hp V8 GS-F would likely go over a little better but they kept the V8 in the lower tiered car leading some to expect more in the GS-F.
Lets wait for the tests and reviews until its written it off. If it is priced in the 70's it would be a great bargain and a hell of a lot of car for the money if performance is great and not that far off from the 100K German rivals. I think there is a bigger market for something between a M5 and 550 then another 100K 500+ hp monster. Just because it is not a direct M5 or AMG competitor does not mean it still won't be a great car especially if it performs, comes at a good price, is not a gas guzzler, and is much more reliable and trouble free.
If it is priced over 80K then I agree with many that it will be too expensive and not enough car for the money and there won't be much of a market for it and it will be too expensive for someone who likes the GS but really wants a V8 but does not want to pay a huge mark up for it.
As for the styling, I never really cared for the styling of the 4th Generation GS inside or out although I like it more then the 3rd Gen, the F sport looks decent in black or grey. I am not nuts over the GS-F styling but blue is not a good color for it at all, I would like to see what it looks like in black, grey, silver, or white.
The way I see it the GS F has potential if priced right.
There is no way Lexus was going toe to toe with the M5 or E63AMG their first time out with a top end GS. Lexus is still not a direct German competitor and not prestigious enough as a brand to charge around 100K for a mid level sedan no matter how much hp it makes, yes a couple dozen people on CL may buy it who could afford it but the buying pubic is not going to spend that kind of money on a Lexus. The LS is still a notch below the S class, A8, or 7 series, it is a great car but just not at their level or offers what they have offered like 12 cylinders, big V8 power, etc not to mention the top end lower volume cars/engines those German companies have offered that Lexus does not so expecting Lexus to be a direct competitor to the high dollar German power sedans with power, performance, price was a little unrealistic. It is not how Lexus does things.
The GS lost its V8 option which looking at the very low sales of the hybrid GS was probably a mistake but it lost its V8 while the Germans have still offered some kind of V8, this GS F is not only going for the high performance sedan market but it is also offering GS buyers a V8 version and hopefully not at some insane price. What if the GS F base price is around $75K, then I see it as a very good buy, it may not have the 500+hp as the Germans but it will also cost much less, won't be a gas guzzler, and will be much more reliable while offering great performance. This is a version of the GS I feel Lexus needs right now, Japanese rival Infiniti Q70 has offered more power/performance/V8 power then the GS so the GS F addresses that, hell even Acura has the hybrid version of the RLX making more power and performing better then any current version of the GS350.
I know many are complaining that they just dropped the engine from the RC-F into a bigger more expensive car but most of the IS/RC rivals are now going FI 6 cylinder instead of a NA V8 which I don't think many were complaining about Lexus staying with the V8. If Lexus copied and dropped a turbo V6 in the RC-F with around 430hp then the 467hp V8 GS-F would likely go over a little better but they kept the V8 in the lower tiered car leading some to expect more in the GS-F.
Lets wait for the tests and reviews until its written it off. If it is priced in the 70's it would be a great bargain and a hell of a lot of car for the money if performance is great and not that far off from the 100K German rivals. I think there is a bigger market for something between a M5 and 550 then another 100K 500+ hp monster. Just because it is not a direct M5 or AMG competitor does not mean it still won't be a great car especially if it performs, comes at a good price, is not a gas guzzler, and is much more reliable and trouble free.
If it is priced over 80K then I agree with many that it will be too expensive and not enough car for the money and there won't be much of a market for it and it will be too expensive for someone who likes the GS but really wants a V8 but does not want to pay a huge mark up for it.
As for the styling, I never really cared for the styling of the 4th Generation GS inside or out although I like it more then the 3rd Gen, the F sport looks decent in black or grey. I am not nuts over the GS-F styling but blue is not a good color for it at all, I would like to see what it looks like in black, grey, silver, or white.
#163
Lexus Fanatic
#164
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
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Actually we still have the E550 in Canada and likely most of the rest of the world, so maybe it's just the USA market, where most just go with the 6 cylinder or just jump to the E63 ?
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.
Soon, the line up will be:
E400 low boost 3.0L V6 329 hp
E450 high boost 3.0L V6 365 hp
E63 low boost 5.5L V8 550 hp
E63 S high boost 5.5L V8 577 hp
The E63 will eventually have the 4.0L V8 with 500+ hp.
#165
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
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And at the time the E63 and C63 still had the most powerful engines in their respective classes. No one ever complained that they stuffed the giant E63s motor into the tiny C63. Also the E63 had 518 hp to the C63s 457. A fair and respectable trade off for the lighter cheaper car. Also 61 hp is a significant difference in tuning. That could have put the GS-F at 528 Hp.
Then they made a few C63 520 that had 520 hp, basically the S63's tune.
All same hardwares, different tune.