I do actually feel sorry for him, who knows what goes on behind the curtains ? There is highly unlikely that RC-F ( mock-up of three different chassis = heavy ) or GS-F ( this engine ) is what he really wanted to create or should have chosen if he had free hands.

Its pretty clear that Mr Yaguchi is true car enthusiast and he has no problem telling people that Porsche 911 is the best car he knows. This GS-F is made by the people at the financial department. I would actually not be surprised at all if he left Lexus in a near future.

 

Having the F go down market shouldn't be something Lexus should do. Lexus wants to have people change the perception of the brand, and when the LFA was created it made people think twice about Lexus and what F really is. Now with this GS-F it changes it again, but this time in a bad way. If the FS was suppose to be the hardcore version, make it the hardcore version going up against the AMG Black

 

Sometimes I think that Lexus chief engineers either hate each other or don't communicate with one another. The GS-F engineer praises V8's, IS engineer makes no room for one? Of course they follow the orders from above. I wish we knew who in Lexus decided to cancel an already established IS-F sedan. We all know that they put a lot of work into it, to get that name out there. Apparently it all was done for nothing

 

I think you're on the right track with this logic. However, I would like to add this.
IMHO, Lexus engineers are not clueless as some of us would like to think. In order to justify the existence of the GS F, they must prove to the bean counters that there are buyers ready to write the checks. The business case probably went down like this:

- 550 HP GS F for 120K - Conquest sales = 0 (brand snobbery), Lexus enthusiasts = maybe 5? (love it, but too expensive...)
- 467 HP GS F for 70-80K - Conquest sales = 0 (brand snobbery), Lexus enthusiasts = 500 (GS 350 upgraders, ex IS F owners, RC F admirers needing 2 extra doors, and anyone else that wanted a fun, fast reliable sport sedan without breaking the bank)

Obviously the latter was chosen because the accountants weren't dumb. So if the 500 GS F buyer materialized as planned, the engineers would then have a stronger case to make the extra hot GS F.
Also, this might seem to be the equivalent of a GS 500, but starting the GS F line here is a much better move if they were planning to expand the model down the road.

 

Really? Do you have a link by chance? That's disconcerting news. We expected F's to be low volume but not 'limited' volume

I agree with this statement, however, personally I'm giving Lexus the benefit of the doubt in that I'm happy to see a new trim for the GS and don't mind patiently waiting for that 550+hp version. 467hp is more than I need.

It's hard to tell who calls the shots. But unless they seriously shoehorn a V8 I don't see it happening, 3IS engine bay is minuscule and if you recall the IS F was a skunkworks project anyway so the V8 really was an afterthought. Though a TTV6 is likely I wouldn't count out a low displacement V8 in the 4.0-4.9L range and FI application though likely for other models.

 

Great point. Surely Akio does not always get his way (though many enthusiasts would back his notions of passionate vehicles) and helps keep things even keel between vehicles created for mass consumption and ones bore from passion.

 

your right Henry. I was trying to figure out where people were getting the GS500. but yes it makes sense since it would be a 5liter engine

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._f_first_look/

 

LOL if it's really true and not a typo or wrong info, no wonder they just put the RC F engine in it, why bother to do anything more ......

 

not saying it would be easy or unmodified. it could be adjusted to be less of a screamer.

while 'orderly' people might like your tidy comparison there, of course it's meaningless because there's also 1, 2, 4, 6, a1, a2, a3, a5, a7, a, b, gla, cls, and a bunch of others too. may not all be 'sedans' but sedans aren't even the big chunk of the market any longer, cuv/suvs are, and we didn't even cover that horde of models.

that 'monkey wrench' no doubt contributes vastly to lexus profits. when you're not the top dog you don't want to compete 'head on' you want to stir it up, do what the other guys AREN'T doing, which lexus has done continually with es, rx, hs (well 2 out of 3 ain't bad ), cth, etc.

exactly, hard to classify, just how lexus wants it, but magazines and forums will insist on comparing rc with 4 series and a5 i guess.

most people talking about it and bothered by it wouldn't buy it no matter what it's called.

yup

100% disagree.

maybe. the competition isn't standing still either.

 

I'm just talking about the typical Small Medium Large. The ones you listed are essentially spawned from and/or are 'filler' vehicles helping to strengthen each core model (3-Sedan - wagon, GT, 4-Series - coupe, convertible, 4-door coupe ). Let's not even start with the CUVs

Won't argue that the ES isn't important to the brand, because it is. Just saying if Lexus had went the traditional route with the GS and never introduced the ES250 in the early nineties, the GS would likely be more on par with other luxury mid sizes today.

Perhaps we need to start asking the automakers. "What do you want the *insert car here* to compete against?

Truth

 

But that's the point, with the current generation of GS and IS, it's been Lexus that's been blowing the doors off BMW in the corners....even when BMW has the upper hand in straightline speed.

 

But the GS-F will probably only be 80K at the most.

 

If that's true, i wonder how people figure that a GS with 83 hp more to 550 will jump up to anywhere near $120K

 

Thats for people that need to compensate for a lack of something else imo. Not everyone wants the most power, or the fastest in 0-60, 1/4 mile.
The RC F is the same weight and power, has no issue doing 4.3 0-60. Funny how the argument changes when a charger from dodge beats Mercedes BMW Audi Jag etc. in power but its "not in the same class"- which proves a point. You dont have to do what everyone else is doing because its "in your class". So what?