lokies

85k..eehhhhh...i'll wait it out another year or two and see what they are then..not in a rush to buy but that price point is not what i was expecting. I didn't want to believe it until it was official.

5PM

Worst product marketing in Japan. Or anywhere. Somebody (or several somebody) should have been fired over the F Sport/F debacle.

JDR76

Doesn't BMW do the same thing with M? As in having both an M4 and the 435i with an M Sport package? I think Mercedes does the same thing too with their AMG cars and AMG packages (I could be wrong though).

rominl

iTrader: (4)

bad enough to help sales to the point that bmw is following. don't get me wrong, i hate it too, kind of sad how marketing and public perception work

T4Fun

whoever designed the interior should also be fired. worse looking interior egonomics ive ever seen.
i never thought i would say this, but bmw seems to be a better choice despite lack of reliablity at this point. Lexus needs to go back to drawing board. BIG BIG disappointment from timing of release to styling and price.

T4Fun

next to consumer reports, no trust in c and d as well... paid pumpers.

suprised they didnt throw in m3 comparison which will blow this away, but then again, segments are not well defined at this point. where is the dodge charger hellcat for example?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i think the badge is the most confusing part. bmw had m sport for a long time but there was no special badge. same with mb, there were amg appearance or sport package but no amg badge (any amg badge you see out there on non-amg cars are not from factory).

but lexus came out with fsport and a badge and to "untrained" eyes seem to be the F badge. for sure isf owners aren't happy about it. but next thing you know, bmw now has regular non-m cars with the actual M badge.

sigh...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

out of curiosity, what do you see on ergonomics? specific on the gsf? or across gs lineup in general?

JDR76

Thanks for the clarification, rominl. I get what you're saying, though I'll admit I've been confused by the AMG wheels before.

5PM

Good point, but you also have to consider that BMW has been deeply engaged in the enthusiast market for decades, while it's a relatively new thing at Lexus. BMW weenies (like me) are not going to get confused. Typical Lexus buyers are a different matter.

ItzFilyO

It's simple. Those sport badges sells cars. People who can't afford the fire breathing models will buy the cheaper models because of the badging and sporty designs. Like me.

RoiteTrom

Stop blaming Lexus for the F/F-Sport confusion. The real blame is on the people who do not know how to read or distinguish 2 badges that are different in size (F-Sport is longer, F is short). The F badge also has a blue outline, which also caught my eye over the F-Sport.

tea

i'm a car guy, but was never a Lexus fan until 2013 when the 4GS came out. Back in 2011 or 2012, I saw a 2IS with the F badge on its fender and without thinking about it, thought it was an actual F car, until i did a double take on the car as a whole to figure it was just a regular 2IS and not a real F. I didn't know there was an F SPort package at the time since I wasn't a Lexus fan.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

just about how much most people can't tell between a regular 4 series and a m4.

yes i think that's around the time frame when lexus started having 2is fsport with badges on the sides and rear. for sure it worked for lexus, i definitely see a lot more fsport than regular models on the road these days

5PM

Although my wife had a used 2010 IS and I was very impressed with the build, there is absolutely zero chance that I would have ever considered a Lexus for myself until the 4GS appeared. So they managed to get the attention of some car guys like me. Question is whether they can hold on to it.