C63 vs GS F
06-27-17, 06:07 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
C63 vs GS F
I had the opportunity to drive a C63 for an extended weekend. I drove C63 through out Nevada in city and desert environments. As a GS F owner, I thought it would be interesting to compare both cars as they are similarly priced despite being in separate classes. C63 was second on my list (before the Guila) before I got the GS F.
C63 is better
Ride - The ride quality within the C63 is more sorted and composed than the GS F. The GS F at low speeds is more choppy than the C63. In its softest setting, the C63 is a bit floaty and controls road vibrations better than the Lexus. You feel more connected to the road in the GS F and it is never punishing or jarring but more imperfects get communicated through the suspension. The new adaptive system in the Lexus controls more body motion and reduces vibration compared to the passive Sachs dampers but the C63 in the comfort is superior. The GS F's softest setting is somewhere between C63's sport and sport+ mode. GS F's stiffest setting is much stiffer than the C63's sport+. One exception is speed bumps. In the C63, the rear suspension jolts down quickly and jars the rear seat passengers, very strange.
Exhaust - Auto journalists rave about AMG's exhaust tuning and it is worthy. At low speeds and high speeds, the exhaust rumbles into the cabin. You know it is special on startup. All of the cracks and bangs are hilarious. While the Lexus GS F is all engine noise, the C63 is all exhaust. In fact, you don't hear the engine at all in hard acceleration.
Performance - Wow. The acceleration in the Merc is brutal. It is addicting. The gradual way the GS F delivers power isn't as abrupt therefore doesn't feel as fast. It certainly sounds fast and exciting. However, the Merc acceleration is thrilling. When I floored the Merc, every passenger had a boost of adrenaline. In the GS F, it is a hit and miss. We are talking about less than a second difference in most baseline performance metrics, but the torque and raw performance numbers within the Merc wins outright.
Range - One of the most annoying aspects of the GS F is its range. The tank is small compared to its fuel economy. The Mercedes has a larger tank than the GS F despite being a smaller car with better fuel economy.
Street cred - Unfortunately, the GS F isn't well-known or well-respected. The C63 and AMG has a cult following. It is well-known and respected. Driving both the C63 and GS F leads to different experiences from bystanders. People asked how fast to 60 and the power in the AMG. For the GS F, the most common comment, "this is a nice Lexus." No mention of power or performance.
GS F is better
Exterior Design - The best angle for the Mercedes is the front-end. The bottom silver accent with a black exterior looks sick; however, Lexus has a superior exterior design on multiple fronts. First, the visual cues between the non-AMG and AMGs is minimal. Unless you are a car person, it is hard to see the difference. It is even hard if the C-class as the AMG visual package. The same doesn't apply to the GS F. It is noticeably different. As Alex Goy said, "It looks like a Predator". You can't mistake a GS F but for a GS F. Second, the GS F looks good in a wider color palette with lighter colors. Lexus has advertised the GS F in blue, silver, and white. Not one in black. In the C63, black is just about the only color you see. Third, the wheel design in the GS F is more interesting and stands out compared to the traditional simple spoke design of most AMG wheels. Granted, the GS F's wheels are hard to clean. Fourth, what is with the fake exhaust tips Mercedes? That is a crime for a performance car.
Interior Design - This will probably surprise some, but it comes down to the quality of the execution. The C63 interior design looks incredible, just dont touch it. The model line of the C-class spans much farther down the price scale than the GS model. It shows in the quality of plastics and fabrics. The switch gear feels plastic-y. The dash materials aren't bad but feel rougher and less soft than the Lexus. While the GS F design isn't visually striking, the quality is better. Lexus has an older and less gaudy design but the details and execution are high quality. You can tell the GS range is supposed to be more expensive model than the C-class. The GS F wins on the luxury factor.
Instrument cluster - I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to instrument design. To be direct, the AMG design is boring. Utterly, a snooze fest. Nothing interesting going on at all. The GS F's instrument design is the opposite with stunning colors and details. One negative is the mechanical speed tact in the GS F is a waste. I never look at it.
Infotainment - Another surprise for many since every auto journalist (outside Matt Farah) complains about the Lexus system. The Merc system wasn't easy to use either despite what some reviewers have claimed. BMW and Audi systems are my personal favorite. The graphics are superior inside the Merc. GS F needs a serious update; however as an audiophile, the Mark Levinson is noticeably better than the Burmester. It ends up the fancy speaker grills don't increase audio quality. Because both are tied in usability but the Lexus has a better sound system, infotainment goes to the Lexus.
Seats - Nearly every GS F review praises the seats. I agree. They are soft, super supportive, and comfortable, despite lacking the headrest, thigh, and lumbar adjustments in the C63. The C63 seats are hard and don't hold you in the seat as well. My bottom got sore after an hour of hard driving. The leather was rough and looked lower-end compared to the GS F. And no ventilated seats. What? Sure the GS F ones aren't that good but at least it has some airflow.
Driving position - For some reason, I could not find a comfortable driving position in the C63. The steering feels too high because the instrument cluster is pointed at steeper angle than the Lexus. Every time I got into the Merc, I adjusted the seat to a new position. As Chris Harris noted, the driving position inside the GS F is fantastic. I set the seat and steering wheel up once and forgot about it. A simple but important win for the Lexus.
Throttle - The GS F's four different driving modes produce quite drastic changes in personality. In the Mercedes, it was hard to notice the difference between the driving modes outside the gears used. The C63 was hard to control in city driving due to the throttle response. You have to be very soft on the throttle, like millimeters in accelerator pedal depth, to keep the power output reasonable in city driving. This wears on any driver in stop and go traffic. In the GS F, put the drive mode in Eco or Normal and you can use the full pedal travel without feeling like you are "leaving the mode". The GS F is easier to control and smoother in city driving. Merc is always one second away from breaking the rear tires loose or full-out acceleration. I like this feeling in aggressive driving but when you can't leave this aggressive mode, it annoys passengers and makes day-to-day arduous.
Eco-tech - Lexus's Otto cycle implementation to save fuel is much better than the Merc's "comfort" mode's eco-tech. The auto-start-stop feature isn't well executed. When the engine turns back on, the car shakes and the exhaust barks open; however, cylinder deactivation worked really well at high way speeds. Lexus's eco-mode is smoother and works without you seeing or feeling it. Granted, Lexus has worse economy ratings; however if you deactivate auto-start-stop, I doubt the Merc is much better than the Lexus.
Interior room - Lexus is a bigger car so this is an easy win for Lexus. C63 has plenty of leg room in the back but the car is narrower and the door openings are narrower.
Quietness - The GS F isn't the quietest Lexus due to its intentions but the C63 is one noisy ride. I was shocked at how loud the tires (both the GS F and C63 use Michelin Super Sports) and suspension were in the C63. The Merc crashes over pumps and the tire roar wears on you. The ride is better in the Merc than the Lexus but it doesn't sound like it when you drive. While you feel more of the road in the Lexus, you hear more of the road in the Merc.
Driving Experience - The GS F calls you to push the car harder and harder. The Merc feels more like a jet engine with only one engine output that is "farting" out ridiculous amount of power. It is exhilarating as it pushes you towards 150mph+ but it feels rather clinical. The sensation of endless acceleration and torque is fun but it stops there in the C63. The GS F's character grows as you push the car, as noted by Chris Harris, Steve Sutcliffe, and Jermey Clarkson. The intank sound changes and the exhaust note changes as the car gets faster and faster. GS F grows on you.
Tie
Engine - This is a tie because it is up to what you like. The 4.0 V8 pulls like a freight train once above 2000. It is incredibly powerful and doesn't stop pulling; however, it is difficult to modulate. In city driving, the power is off and then 100% on. It isn't as predictable as the 5.0 V8. Even in comfort mode with traction control, the tail will break loose in super light throttle applications. As the 4.0 V8 pulls towards the red line, there is no change in emotion from the engine which is disappointing. It all sounds the same. For the GS F's 5.0 V8, the engine is much easier to control and the experience from 3500 to 7300 is so rewarding. 5.0 V8 wants to rev and it gives back to the driver more and more sound. The 4.0 V8 wins in out-right performance but the 5.0 V8 wins in that you want to rev it.
Transmission - A tie because each transmission has its good and bad side. The 7-speed multi-clutch unit in the Mercedes is super fast. It is must be at least twice as fast as the Lexus. It was so much fun to switch between gears; however, shifts weren't smooth in slower speeds. I got a jolt every now and then in the first three gears. In city driving, the C63 is worse than the Lexus. The GS F is much smoother and predictable; however in performance driving, it is slower than the C63. Also, the ratios of GS F are too long. The GS F could have a 0-60 time of 4.0 seconds with a well-tuned ZF 8-speed, which would address most of the performance complaints from auto journalists. The transmission is holding back the GS F more than low-end torque.
Handling - Another tie between the GS F and the C63 for different reasons. C63 feels confident and solid at all speeds, but it gets mushy past turn in. It is hard to feel what is going on with the front tires but the rear loves to break loose and power slide. It is incredibly fun to power out of corners. Lexus has the opposite problem therefore strength. It has hyper active steering. The steering is a tad darty and communicates a lot more information than the C63. I contend the the GS F is the driver's car of the category. The GS F has a slight tendency to understeer but the back-end loves to rotate. It feels more nimble than a midsize car should. As Jermey Clarkson noted, "This feels like a sports car. This is the best Lexus since the LFA." It is also a knock against the C63 that it basically weighs the same as the GS F.
C63 is better
Ride - The ride quality within the C63 is more sorted and composed than the GS F. The GS F at low speeds is more choppy than the C63. In its softest setting, the C63 is a bit floaty and controls road vibrations better than the Lexus. You feel more connected to the road in the GS F and it is never punishing or jarring but more imperfects get communicated through the suspension. The new adaptive system in the Lexus controls more body motion and reduces vibration compared to the passive Sachs dampers but the C63 in the comfort is superior. The GS F's softest setting is somewhere between C63's sport and sport+ mode. GS F's stiffest setting is much stiffer than the C63's sport+. One exception is speed bumps. In the C63, the rear suspension jolts down quickly and jars the rear seat passengers, very strange.
Exhaust - Auto journalists rave about AMG's exhaust tuning and it is worthy. At low speeds and high speeds, the exhaust rumbles into the cabin. You know it is special on startup. All of the cracks and bangs are hilarious. While the Lexus GS F is all engine noise, the C63 is all exhaust. In fact, you don't hear the engine at all in hard acceleration.
Performance - Wow. The acceleration in the Merc is brutal. It is addicting. The gradual way the GS F delivers power isn't as abrupt therefore doesn't feel as fast. It certainly sounds fast and exciting. However, the Merc acceleration is thrilling. When I floored the Merc, every passenger had a boost of adrenaline. In the GS F, it is a hit and miss. We are talking about less than a second difference in most baseline performance metrics, but the torque and raw performance numbers within the Merc wins outright.
Range - One of the most annoying aspects of the GS F is its range. The tank is small compared to its fuel economy. The Mercedes has a larger tank than the GS F despite being a smaller car with better fuel economy.
Street cred - Unfortunately, the GS F isn't well-known or well-respected. The C63 and AMG has a cult following. It is well-known and respected. Driving both the C63 and GS F leads to different experiences from bystanders. People asked how fast to 60 and the power in the AMG. For the GS F, the most common comment, "this is a nice Lexus." No mention of power or performance.
GS F is better
Exterior Design - The best angle for the Mercedes is the front-end. The bottom silver accent with a black exterior looks sick; however, Lexus has a superior exterior design on multiple fronts. First, the visual cues between the non-AMG and AMGs is minimal. Unless you are a car person, it is hard to see the difference. It is even hard if the C-class as the AMG visual package. The same doesn't apply to the GS F. It is noticeably different. As Alex Goy said, "It looks like a Predator". You can't mistake a GS F but for a GS F. Second, the GS F looks good in a wider color palette with lighter colors. Lexus has advertised the GS F in blue, silver, and white. Not one in black. In the C63, black is just about the only color you see. Third, the wheel design in the GS F is more interesting and stands out compared to the traditional simple spoke design of most AMG wheels. Granted, the GS F's wheels are hard to clean. Fourth, what is with the fake exhaust tips Mercedes? That is a crime for a performance car.
Interior Design - This will probably surprise some, but it comes down to the quality of the execution. The C63 interior design looks incredible, just dont touch it. The model line of the C-class spans much farther down the price scale than the GS model. It shows in the quality of plastics and fabrics. The switch gear feels plastic-y. The dash materials aren't bad but feel rougher and less soft than the Lexus. While the GS F design isn't visually striking, the quality is better. Lexus has an older and less gaudy design but the details and execution are high quality. You can tell the GS range is supposed to be more expensive model than the C-class. The GS F wins on the luxury factor.
Instrument cluster - I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to instrument design. To be direct, the AMG design is boring. Utterly, a snooze fest. Nothing interesting going on at all. The GS F's instrument design is the opposite with stunning colors and details. One negative is the mechanical speed tact in the GS F is a waste. I never look at it.
Infotainment - Another surprise for many since every auto journalist (outside Matt Farah) complains about the Lexus system. The Merc system wasn't easy to use either despite what some reviewers have claimed. BMW and Audi systems are my personal favorite. The graphics are superior inside the Merc. GS F needs a serious update; however as an audiophile, the Mark Levinson is noticeably better than the Burmester. It ends up the fancy speaker grills don't increase audio quality. Because both are tied in usability but the Lexus has a better sound system, infotainment goes to the Lexus.
Seats - Nearly every GS F review praises the seats. I agree. They are soft, super supportive, and comfortable, despite lacking the headrest, thigh, and lumbar adjustments in the C63. The C63 seats are hard and don't hold you in the seat as well. My bottom got sore after an hour of hard driving. The leather was rough and looked lower-end compared to the GS F. And no ventilated seats. What? Sure the GS F ones aren't that good but at least it has some airflow.
Driving position - For some reason, I could not find a comfortable driving position in the C63. The steering feels too high because the instrument cluster is pointed at steeper angle than the Lexus. Every time I got into the Merc, I adjusted the seat to a new position. As Chris Harris noted, the driving position inside the GS F is fantastic. I set the seat and steering wheel up once and forgot about it. A simple but important win for the Lexus.
Throttle - The GS F's four different driving modes produce quite drastic changes in personality. In the Mercedes, it was hard to notice the difference between the driving modes outside the gears used. The C63 was hard to control in city driving due to the throttle response. You have to be very soft on the throttle, like millimeters in accelerator pedal depth, to keep the power output reasonable in city driving. This wears on any driver in stop and go traffic. In the GS F, put the drive mode in Eco or Normal and you can use the full pedal travel without feeling like you are "leaving the mode". The GS F is easier to control and smoother in city driving. Merc is always one second away from breaking the rear tires loose or full-out acceleration. I like this feeling in aggressive driving but when you can't leave this aggressive mode, it annoys passengers and makes day-to-day arduous.
Eco-tech - Lexus's Otto cycle implementation to save fuel is much better than the Merc's "comfort" mode's eco-tech. The auto-start-stop feature isn't well executed. When the engine turns back on, the car shakes and the exhaust barks open; however, cylinder deactivation worked really well at high way speeds. Lexus's eco-mode is smoother and works without you seeing or feeling it. Granted, Lexus has worse economy ratings; however if you deactivate auto-start-stop, I doubt the Merc is much better than the Lexus.
Interior room - Lexus is a bigger car so this is an easy win for Lexus. C63 has plenty of leg room in the back but the car is narrower and the door openings are narrower.
Quietness - The GS F isn't the quietest Lexus due to its intentions but the C63 is one noisy ride. I was shocked at how loud the tires (both the GS F and C63 use Michelin Super Sports) and suspension were in the C63. The Merc crashes over pumps and the tire roar wears on you. The ride is better in the Merc than the Lexus but it doesn't sound like it when you drive. While you feel more of the road in the Lexus, you hear more of the road in the Merc.
Driving Experience - The GS F calls you to push the car harder and harder. The Merc feels more like a jet engine with only one engine output that is "farting" out ridiculous amount of power. It is exhilarating as it pushes you towards 150mph+ but it feels rather clinical. The sensation of endless acceleration and torque is fun but it stops there in the C63. The GS F's character grows as you push the car, as noted by Chris Harris, Steve Sutcliffe, and Jermey Clarkson. The intank sound changes and the exhaust note changes as the car gets faster and faster. GS F grows on you.
Tie
Engine - This is a tie because it is up to what you like. The 4.0 V8 pulls like a freight train once above 2000. It is incredibly powerful and doesn't stop pulling; however, it is difficult to modulate. In city driving, the power is off and then 100% on. It isn't as predictable as the 5.0 V8. Even in comfort mode with traction control, the tail will break loose in super light throttle applications. As the 4.0 V8 pulls towards the red line, there is no change in emotion from the engine which is disappointing. It all sounds the same. For the GS F's 5.0 V8, the engine is much easier to control and the experience from 3500 to 7300 is so rewarding. 5.0 V8 wants to rev and it gives back to the driver more and more sound. The 4.0 V8 wins in out-right performance but the 5.0 V8 wins in that you want to rev it.
Transmission - A tie because each transmission has its good and bad side. The 7-speed multi-clutch unit in the Mercedes is super fast. It is must be at least twice as fast as the Lexus. It was so much fun to switch between gears; however, shifts weren't smooth in slower speeds. I got a jolt every now and then in the first three gears. In city driving, the C63 is worse than the Lexus. The GS F is much smoother and predictable; however in performance driving, it is slower than the C63. Also, the ratios of GS F are too long. The GS F could have a 0-60 time of 4.0 seconds with a well-tuned ZF 8-speed, which would address most of the performance complaints from auto journalists. The transmission is holding back the GS F more than low-end torque.
Handling - Another tie between the GS F and the C63 for different reasons. C63 feels confident and solid at all speeds, but it gets mushy past turn in. It is hard to feel what is going on with the front tires but the rear loves to break loose and power slide. It is incredibly fun to power out of corners. Lexus has the opposite problem therefore strength. It has hyper active steering. The steering is a tad darty and communicates a lot more information than the C63. I contend the the GS F is the driver's car of the category. The GS F has a slight tendency to understeer but the back-end loves to rotate. It feels more nimble than a midsize car should. As Jermey Clarkson noted, "This feels like a sports car. This is the best Lexus since the LFA." It is also a knock against the C63 that it basically weighs the same as the GS F.
Last edited by aginnt; 06-28-17 at 02:32 PM.
06-28-17, 05:27 AM
#2
Thanks for the excellent, tremendously detailed review. A few of the points you made that stand out to me after owning the GS F for only 3 months now:
The GS F offers a dynamic driving experience: Comfortable and effortless to drive in the city yet fun to drive out on the open highways with the sport+ mode
The drive is extremely quiet, you hear the exhaust and the engine and less of the road.
The interior quality is superb, it feels luxurious to the touch, whereas when I got into an Audi S for example, the interior just felt like it had lots of plastic and was cheaper
The seats are very firm yet soft. Everyone who gets into my car says "oh man, these seats are amazing!", and after about 20 minutes of driving they want to or do fall asleep (especially at night) because it's so comfortable
The car is a sleeper - few people know what's under the hood and just assume it's another Lexus somewhere in the 300hp range until they either hear the V8 or already know what the F line stands for
The GS F offers a dynamic driving experience: Comfortable and effortless to drive in the city yet fun to drive out on the open highways with the sport+ mode
The drive is extremely quiet, you hear the exhaust and the engine and less of the road.
The interior quality is superb, it feels luxurious to the touch, whereas when I got into an Audi S for example, the interior just felt like it had lots of plastic and was cheaper
The seats are very firm yet soft. Everyone who gets into my car says "oh man, these seats are amazing!", and after about 20 minutes of driving they want to or do fall asleep (especially at night) because it's so comfortable
The car is a sleeper - few people know what's under the hood and just assume it's another Lexus somewhere in the 300hp range until they either hear the V8 or already know what the F line stands for
06-28-17, 06:10 AM
#3
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Great writeup, thanks for sharing!
06-28-17, 05:52 PM
#6
I'm an ardent car fan. I own a 1996 Carrera 2 and a 2012 Cayman R. I have been a proud owner of a 2006 GX470 purchased new and now with105k miles. I've been meticulous about its maintenance and I've been rewarded with a car that still almost looks new and still drives wonderfully. I have always had confidence in the GX 470 and continue to love the SUV. The Lexus dealer gets all my service work and treats me well.
I'm not ready to sell any of those cars above yet so I'm not ready to actively shop for my next car. But, I have to say, I am most impressed with the GS-F from the articles I have read and my inspection of a floor model. I've not driven it, but I trust the inherent goodness of the Lexus product overall, and I place high value on the particular attributes that the GS-F has. Personally, Mercedes and BMW used to impress me many years ago - not so much now. My sense is that CTS-V is a worthy competitor to the GS-F but I'll personally take a high-performance, normally aspirated engine over a turbo (yes, I know turbos excel in certain areas and has lots going for them.) I like the styling of the Alfa Guilia but the switchware came undone in the display model at the Chicago Auto Show and the driver seat got stuck in the foremost forward position and you could not get behind the wheel. I'll let some other buyer deal with Alfa quality issues.
So, when the time does come for me to seriously consider a performance sedan, the GS-F (new or used) will be on a very short list to pursue.
I'm not ready to sell any of those cars above yet so I'm not ready to actively shop for my next car. But, I have to say, I am most impressed with the GS-F from the articles I have read and my inspection of a floor model. I've not driven it, but I trust the inherent goodness of the Lexus product overall, and I place high value on the particular attributes that the GS-F has. Personally, Mercedes and BMW used to impress me many years ago - not so much now. My sense is that CTS-V is a worthy competitor to the GS-F but I'll personally take a high-performance, normally aspirated engine over a turbo (yes, I know turbos excel in certain areas and has lots going for them.) I like the styling of the Alfa Guilia but the switchware came undone in the display model at the Chicago Auto Show and the driver seat got stuck in the foremost forward position and you could not get behind the wheel. I'll let some other buyer deal with Alfa quality issues.
So, when the time does come for me to seriously consider a performance sedan, the GS-F (new or used) will be on a very short list to pursue.
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06-29-17, 03:11 PM
#9
Driver
Thread Starter
The ride is better and the transmission is so fast but the drivers position is worst than the Lexus. The biggest issue is throttle response and the lack of a smooth transmission. Throttle response is way too touchy and it is hard to control.
06-29-17, 03:17 PM
#10
Driver
Thread Starter
07-04-17, 10:29 AM
#13
07-04-17, 04:13 PM
#14
07-04-17, 08:30 PM
#15