GS F discontinued
07-24-17, 11:57 AM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
Its just bad businees. I can see them making GSF/RCF special order only going forward but then you would not be able to negotiate price too much.
The current owners should be happy - i think the values of these cars will stay strong for many years just like the ISF.
07-24-17, 01:14 PM
#17
M550i makes over 450hp and over 480 lb ft Torque.
How is it not more powerful? And these numbers are really underrated.
M550i comes standard with pretty much everything and actually has more tech features than GSF.
Yes you can option for it to self park and also have semi-autonomous feature which will push price to high 70s and low 80s but these features are not even available on GSF.
How is it not more powerful? And these numbers are really underrated.
M550i comes standard with pretty much everything and actually has more tech features than GSF.
Yes you can option for it to self park and also have semi-autonomous feature which will push price to high 70s and low 80s but these features are not even available on GSF.
If you actually go and build your own 550, add Parking Assistance Package (rear view cameras + object sensors), Cold Weather Package (heated seats), Driving Assistance Package (Rear camera with guide lines), Driving Assistance Package Plus (BSD, Collision warning, lane departure), Bowers & Wilkins Surround Sound System, it's already $81.5k. these are all features (aside from the sound system) that you can't opt out of on the GSF and doesn't even include the other features/options you can't get on the GSF like gesture control, wifi, massage etc etc etc. Add those features, and your $72k 550 is now approaching $100k and probably should have gone with a bone minimum M5 instead (when it comes out).
Aside from a 3.9 sec 0-60 (which, yes, is significant), on paper when optioned out similarly, you have a similar price-point when optioned similarly with a similar power range. Yes, power is generally understated on German cars to get out of environmental tax based on hp and emissions.
That's how the Germans get you, through options and package add-ons. you market a $70k car and end up with a $100k car. ex-Bimmer owner, current Audi owner. My heavier and "less powerful" C7 S6 is faster than my GSF. i know that, but I can guarantee you most people aren't going to. :-p
Last edited by danwlee; 07-24-17 at 01:27 PM.
07-24-17, 01:48 PM
#18
And it will break.......
I say technically less power because on paper, 467 > 456. Yes, there's a myriad of other factors like torque, power-to-weight ratio, drive-train power loss that all factors into the overall equation. most of the buyers of these cars (especially the Bimmers) aren't going to look at anything but the numbers. and the number that most people look at are how much horsepower.
If you actually go and build your own 550, add Parking Assistance Package (rear view cameras + object sensors), Cold Weather Package (heated seats), Driving Assistance Package (Rear camera with guide lines), Driving Assistance Package Plus (BSD, Collision warning, lane departure), Bowers & Wilkins Surround Sound System, it's already $81.5k. these are all features (aside from the sound system) that you can't opt out of on the GSF and doesn't even include the other features/options you can't get on the GSF like gesture control, wifi, massage etc etc etc. Add those features, and your $72k 550 is now approaching $100k and probably should have gone with a bone minimum M5 instead (when it comes out).
Aside from a 3.9 sec 0-60 (which, yes, is significant), on paper when optioned out similarly, you have a similar price-point when optioned similarly with a similar power range. Yes, power is generally understated on German cars to get out of environmental tax based on hp and emissions.
That's how the Germans get you, through options and package add-ons. you market a $70k car and end up with a $100k car. ex-Bimmer owner, current Audi owner. My heavier and "less powerful" C7 S6 is faster than my GSF. i know that, but I can guarantee you most people aren't going to. :-p
If you actually go and build your own 550, add Parking Assistance Package (rear view cameras + object sensors), Cold Weather Package (heated seats), Driving Assistance Package (Rear camera with guide lines), Driving Assistance Package Plus (BSD, Collision warning, lane departure), Bowers & Wilkins Surround Sound System, it's already $81.5k. these are all features (aside from the sound system) that you can't opt out of on the GSF and doesn't even include the other features/options you can't get on the GSF like gesture control, wifi, massage etc etc etc. Add those features, and your $72k 550 is now approaching $100k and probably should have gone with a bone minimum M5 instead (when it comes out).
Aside from a 3.9 sec 0-60 (which, yes, is significant), on paper when optioned out similarly, you have a similar price-point when optioned similarly with a similar power range. Yes, power is generally understated on German cars to get out of environmental tax based on hp and emissions.
That's how the Germans get you, through options and package add-ons. you market a $70k car and end up with a $100k car. ex-Bimmer owner, current Audi owner. My heavier and "less powerful" C7 S6 is faster than my GSF. i know that, but I can guarantee you most people aren't going to. :-p
Bottom line, the BMW is pretty and clean and almost price comparative. The BMW also affords a much more intimate relationship with your service advisor then anyone should have.
Randy B
07-24-17, 01:58 PM
#19
The BMW will break, not once, but rather often. Some of us actually buy cars, not rent them. When you lease them and turn them in, these are not worries for you, as loaners and the cafe at BMW will appease you for the time to pass while you go to and from the dealership. I started buying Lexus after my Mercedes finally wore me out on repairs I could no longer do on my own. Enter a 2006 LS430. That car went 11 years with 165K miles and rarely ever broke a part in its eleven year life with me. I can't say that about three years of ownership with either my 1999 E430 or 2003 E500 Sport.
Bottom line, the BMW is pretty and clean and almost price comparative. The BMW also affords a much more intimate relationship with your service advisor then anyone should have.
Randy B
Bottom line, the BMW is pretty and clean and almost price comparative. The BMW also affords a much more intimate relationship with your service advisor then anyone should have.
Randy B
but regardless... you've got one thread saying it's discontinued and another saying there's a 4.0L TT V8 with 600 hp in the next iteration. rumor mill is churnin'
08-02-17, 11:33 AM
#21
From my conversation at my dealerships 2 months ago it's the entire GS Line. What I was told since redesign of ES sales of that car have skyrocketed. While GS sale haven't have gone stagnant. Both cars now are similar size and amenities but ES costing much less, has cannibalize sales from the GS. I feel Lexus doesn't know what to do with GS if they upscale it too much and increase the price then it competes with the LS. The ES and GS are now competing for the same exact Market. For me personally I prefer the GS over ES and feel it's a mistake for Lexus to discontinued GS. For me this gives Lexus the opportunity to take the GS in a different direction. With the discontinuation of the CT line of vehicles and if it's true the GS that's two models. Leaving only 3 sedan models, 3 suv models and 2 coupe. If you want rear wheel drive mid to large size sedan that leaves you only one choice LS which huge price point difference between ES.
08-02-17, 11:47 AM
#22
From my conversation at my dealerships 2 months ago it's the entire GS Line. What I was told since redesign of ES sales of that car have skyrocketed. While GS sale haven't have gone stagnant. Both cars now are similar size and amenities but ES costing much less, has cannibalize sales from the GS. I feel Lexus doesn't know what to do with GS if they upscale it too much and increase the price then it competes with the LS. The ES and GS are now competing for the same exact Market. For me personally I prefer the GS over ES and feel it's a mistake for Lexus to discontinued GS. For me this gives Lexus the opportunity to take the GS in a different direction. With the discontinuation of the CT line of vehicles and if it's true the GS that's two models. Leaving only 3 sedan models, 3 suv models and 2 coupe. If you want rear wheel drive mid to large size sedan that leaves you only one choice LS which huge price point difference between ES.
08-02-17, 11:51 AM
#23
From my conversation at my dealerships 2 months ago it's the entire GS Line. What I was told since redesign of ES sales of that car have skyrocketed. While GS sale haven't have gone stagnant. Both cars now are similar size and amenities but ES costing much less, has cannibalize sales from the GS. I feel Lexus doesn't know what to do with GS if they upscale it too much and increase the price then it competes with the LS. The ES and GS are now competing for the same exact Market. For me personally I prefer the GS over ES and feel it's a mistake for Lexus to discontinued GS. For me this gives Lexus the opportunity to take the GS in a different direction. With the discontinuation of the CT line of vehicles and if it's true the GS that's two models. Leaving only 3 sedan models, 3 suv models and 2 coupe. If you want rear wheel drive mid to large size sedan that leaves you only one choice LS which huge price point difference between ES.
The GS is a much car better than the ES but it costs too much. They sell maybe one or two GS' a month. The GS-F sells poorly because it's way overpriced as well.
08-02-17, 02:01 PM
#25
Lexus will lose people who cross shop these current models of the Audi A6,BMW 5 series, and the E350 Benz and what they will be left with are only people who are currently ES fans, people looking to get into entry level luxury vehicles and not really concerned with any sort of performance aspect. For all intensive purposes ES becomes more like Acura. If Lexus decides to merge the two platforms I see perhaps a slight increase in sales and then they too will go flat. Why because ES will only appeal to specific segment of the market.
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finny76 (08-03-17)
08-02-17, 08:54 PM
#26
You are 100% RIGHT about that. They are in a different class and Lexus doesn't understand people who will Cross shopping these vehicles will not consider an ES. Doesn't matter if ES is cheaper that's not what they're looking for if they can afford at 5 series or the A6 money is not the issue.
Lexus will lose people who cross shop these current models of the Audi A6,BMW 5 series, and the E350 Benz and what they will be left with are only people who are currently ES fans, people looking to get into entry level luxury vehicles and not really concerned with any sort of performance aspect. For all intensive purposes ES becomes more like Acura. If Lexus decides to merge the two platforms I see perhaps a slight increase in sales and then they too will go flat. Why because ES will only appeal to specific segment of the market.
Lexus will lose people who cross shop these current models of the Audi A6,BMW 5 series, and the E350 Benz and what they will be left with are only people who are currently ES fans, people looking to get into entry level luxury vehicles and not really concerned with any sort of performance aspect. For all intensive purposes ES becomes more like Acura. If Lexus decides to merge the two platforms I see perhaps a slight increase in sales and then they too will go flat. Why because ES will only appeal to specific segment of the market.
08-03-17, 08:48 AM
#27
Judge for yourself with this LEXUS Testing:
*Note the comparison group...
In my HEART...
...But For The Rarely...
...GS-F...
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/08/...types-spotted/
*Note the comparison group...
In my HEART...
...But For The Rarely......GS-F...https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/08/...types-spotted/
08-03-17, 09:32 AM
#28
Lexus Champion
If you compare the GS sales figures compared to previous gen GS, it still does better than those. It may not sell as well as an E-class/5-series but still way more than the Jaguar XF and Infiniti Q70, yet you don't hear anything from Jaguar or Infiniti about discontinuing those lines.
If you think it about it though...it wouldn't cost Lexus too much to develop a next gen GS/GSF. Most likely it would use a shortened chassis of the new LS, carryover turbo-4 from the current GS200t, the TTV6 from the LS500, the future TTV8 in upcoming LCF, and interior technology from new LS (with the addition of Apple CarPlay and Android Auto). Lexus IS already becoming better known for excellent handling, so they just need to work on engine performance, interior tech, and safety tech to really compete and increase sales of the GS.
It would make sense for Lexus to keep making the GS to compete with the A6/E-class/5-series because the ES will never be able to compete with those unless they increase the price significantly and lose their previous ES customer base. The price gap between the ES and LS is too large so many people will probably move on to a different manufacturer. Not to mention, Lexus wouldn't have a midsize sedan anymore since the ES is more of a full-size sedan (bigger than the current SWB LS460).
If you think it about it though...it wouldn't cost Lexus too much to develop a next gen GS/GSF. Most likely it would use a shortened chassis of the new LS, carryover turbo-4 from the current GS200t, the TTV6 from the LS500, the future TTV8 in upcoming LCF, and interior technology from new LS (with the addition of Apple CarPlay and Android Auto). Lexus IS already becoming better known for excellent handling, so they just need to work on engine performance, interior tech, and safety tech to really compete and increase sales of the GS.
It would make sense for Lexus to keep making the GS to compete with the A6/E-class/5-series because the ES will never be able to compete with those unless they increase the price significantly and lose their previous ES customer base. The price gap between the ES and LS is too large so many people will probably move on to a different manufacturer. Not to mention, Lexus wouldn't have a midsize sedan anymore since the ES is more of a full-size sedan (bigger than the current SWB LS460).
Last edited by dchar; 08-03-17 at 09:35 AM.
