Considering buying a GSF or...
03-20-18, 07:13 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Considering buying a GSF or...
So as title states, i'm looking at a higher performance 4 door sedan. I have owned a 2010 ISF and i currently own a 2014 IS350 awd which is nice and all but no real excitement, it doesn't "scare" me when i floor it lets just say. So having said that, i'm looking at the GSF, which looks great, decent power output which is just as fast as my previous ISF but of course much newer tech inside and out. I will not even look over at BMW or M-B or even Audi as i'm not a big fan of the Germans for many reasons and anyone who has a hotrod 4 door sedan has one of those. GSF is rare which i like, but almost too rare that i cant even find out for sale or to test drive so ill have to be patient with that.
What i'm also considering alot though is the new Alfa Romeo Giulia Quad. I have been on their forums very frequently just to see how the ownership is and get a sense of the car from real owners. After reading alot of posts about how great it performs and how bad it can be for reliability, i have come to a conclusion. To have such a car you need a second car because this car just breaks down so often and depending on the issues it can take weeks to resolve and get back from the dealer. I do love that car, the looks, power, handling, brakes, use of carbon fiber everywhere, etc. but the reliability is just killing it for me.
I know with the GSF i will not have to worry about that one bit and can still drive the car hard. What i'm wondering from you guys, is have any of you test drive the Giulia and if so how does it compare to the GSF? From all out performance to a daily driver. I do have an 8 month old daughter and i will be taking her for rides in it as well, so must be safe in that aspect, but she would be riding in my car maybe 20% of the time.
So any opinions or comments are all welcomed! And please don't turn this into a bashing contest, lol.
What i'm also considering alot though is the new Alfa Romeo Giulia Quad. I have been on their forums very frequently just to see how the ownership is and get a sense of the car from real owners. After reading alot of posts about how great it performs and how bad it can be for reliability, i have come to a conclusion. To have such a car you need a second car because this car just breaks down so often and depending on the issues it can take weeks to resolve and get back from the dealer. I do love that car, the looks, power, handling, brakes, use of carbon fiber everywhere, etc. but the reliability is just killing it for me.
I know with the GSF i will not have to worry about that one bit and can still drive the car hard. What i'm wondering from you guys, is have any of you test drive the Giulia and if so how does it compare to the GSF? From all out performance to a daily driver. I do have an 8 month old daughter and i will be taking her for rides in it as well, so must be safe in that aspect, but she would be riding in my car maybe 20% of the time.
So any opinions or comments are all welcomed! And please don't turn this into a bashing contest, lol.
03-20-18, 08:46 PM
#2
The Alfa GQ is an absolutely beautiful machine but it wasn't in my serious consideration set due to the reliability concerns you mentioned. The closest I ever got to poor reliability and lack of parts availability was when I had (back to back) two Jag S-Type Rs. That experience proved (to me) how important reliability and parts accessibility are to overall ownership satisfaction. Essentially, my patience for shop time and waiting for parts became really low and I began to value reliability over performance.
Since then I've had a couple of CTS-Vs and most recently a CLS 550; all were great cars. Before the GSF, an E63 was a serious contender. While the GSF isn't as fast as its intended peer competitors, it does have a great deal of character and the attention to detail is something I really appreciate. For the moment, I'll assume reliability will be above average and the insurance costs are better than expected.
It's a great time to be in the market for a sport sedan; so many wonderful choices.
Good luck...
Eric
Since then I've had a couple of CTS-Vs and most recently a CLS 550; all were great cars. Before the GSF, an E63 was a serious contender. While the GSF isn't as fast as its intended peer competitors, it does have a great deal of character and the attention to detail is something I really appreciate. For the moment, I'll assume reliability will be above average and the insurance costs are better than expected.
It's a great time to be in the market for a sport sedan; so many wonderful choices.
Good luck...
Eric
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bklszl (03-21-18)
03-21-18, 01:19 PM
#3
The Alfa Romeo is a relatively new car in the American market so I'd expect initial reliability issues but I don't think its on the level of say Mercedes or BMW. I lived in Italy for several years and the Italians absolutely loved Alfa Romeo vehicles. If I recall Alfa Romeo is above Honda in reliability. In Italy, the brand is viewed as a tank and there are tons of really old Alfa cars driving around.
November last year, when I bought my GSF and I wanted the new Guilia since it is hands down a beast on the track compared to the GSF, CTS-V or M3/m4 but I couldn't get a Dealer to sell me the car at MSRP. If I were you, I would get the new Guilia even though I say this as someone who absolutely loves the GSF as well.
Everyday comfort: GSF
Everything else: Guilia
November last year, when I bought my GSF and I wanted the new Guilia since it is hands down a beast on the track compared to the GSF, CTS-V or M3/m4 but I couldn't get a Dealer to sell me the car at MSRP. If I were you, I would get the new Guilia even though I say this as someone who absolutely loves the GSF as well.
Everyday comfort: GSF
Everything else: Guilia
03-21-18, 04:25 PM
#5
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Thanks for your input guys. I think if i were to go for the Giulia, i would need to buy a cheaper "beater" car on the side just in case it fails, because i see its happening very often with owners on their forums. With the GSF i don't have to worry about any of that, and really before i make any decisions i'd still like to test drive one. One has come up locally the link is below. What do you guys think of the deal for it? Would there be much flexibility with that price seeing it has close to 30kms.
I have looked a bit into the American cars, well Caddy is the only one really, and i don't find the styling too appealing for my taste at least so that's why i'm not really considering going there. Sure its big on power, the most in class really, but the overall looks aren't that great and in one review having all that magnetic shocks etc the GSF still has a better ride with fixed dampers. So tech wise overall i think the Japs are still more superior to the Americans. But then again depends what you are comparing also.
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/lexus/gs%...%204B9&sprx=-1
I have looked a bit into the American cars, well Caddy is the only one really, and i don't find the styling too appealing for my taste at least so that's why i'm not really considering going there. Sure its big on power, the most in class really, but the overall looks aren't that great and in one review having all that magnetic shocks etc the GSF still has a better ride with fixed dampers. So tech wise overall i think the Japs are still more superior to the Americans. But then again depends what you are comparing also.
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/lexus/gs%...%204B9&sprx=-1
03-21-18, 07:48 PM
#6
Aside from the cliches of countries and their cars, a couple of thoughts led me to the GSF...
1: The CTS-V was a strong proposition but prior experience of structural NVH at 70,000 miles on the Gen 2 + relative lack of depreciation for the Gen 3 kept me from pulling the trigger.
2> For the Merc E63, air suspension and turbo complexities caused me to shy away.
The GSF was a perfect fit. Plenty of technical (go fast) highlights, exotic sounding exhaust tuning, Lexus reliability, great depreciation (used), and relative simple mechanicals; i.e. normally aspirated + fixed suspension.
The above said, I've long given up on trying to remain king of the hill regarding stats and speeds. In my opinion, it's become a never ending battle of disappointment every time a new sport sedan is released.
If the "latest and greatest" is in your wheel-house, I'm not sure the GSF will fit your bill. If it's character, durability, and technical attention to detail, the GSF is a difficult proposition to beat.
Good luck!
1: The CTS-V was a strong proposition but prior experience of structural NVH at 70,000 miles on the Gen 2 + relative lack of depreciation for the Gen 3 kept me from pulling the trigger.
2> For the Merc E63, air suspension and turbo complexities caused me to shy away.
The GSF was a perfect fit. Plenty of technical (go fast) highlights, exotic sounding exhaust tuning, Lexus reliability, great depreciation (used), and relative simple mechanicals; i.e. normally aspirated + fixed suspension.
The above said, I've long given up on trying to remain king of the hill regarding stats and speeds. In my opinion, it's become a never ending battle of disappointment every time a new sport sedan is released.
If the "latest and greatest" is in your wheel-house, I'm not sure the GSF will fit your bill. If it's character, durability, and technical attention to detail, the GSF is a difficult proposition to beat.
Good luck!
03-21-18, 08:58 PM
#7
Watch the Chris Harris on cars review on youtube --- where he drives the GS F (2016 model I believe without adjustable damping) in comparison to the M5 anniversary edition. If you are not tempted by the Bimmer, his review of the GS F and the footage with get you lathered up. Also, the savagegeese video review on youtube is awesome as well. Good luck, but I would take the reliability of the Lexus over the Guilia. Mike
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03-21-18, 11:23 PM
#8
Pole Position
ISFlexy
Interesting as this is the first time i have logged on CL since Nov17 and this is the first post I see. Ironically because I'm somewhat in the same position and have revisited the GSF again. So I too am in the process of purchasing a Alfa QV. I put a deposit down for an 18 that is being delivered sometime in April. However due to some of the issues I have read on the forums ( i'm also there under the same name) i'm starting to get cold feet. The reliability isn't what is scaring me away to be honest with you, its the customer service "or lack there of" that I am reading about that is making me reconsider. I owned a 2011 USB ISF for 3 years and I only changed brakes, tires and oil changes , never had an issue and when I sold it in Dec I sold it for 1500.00 less that what i purchased it for, couldn't believe it. My old 2007 Volvo R depreciated about 83% in the 7 years from when i purchased it brand new to what it was worth 7 years later. If you haven't noticed Quad prices have fallen dramatically almost as fast as the RCF and GSF did when they were released. its a 75-90K car and you can get them for low 60's and even high 50's. The 17's had a few bugs that were fixed via software updates but the 18's fixed them and have options for the 17s standard for the 18. A lot of the "issues" the car had were press vehicles that were rushed for the media but still they shouldn't have had those issues especially for a 90K car.
Back to your question I still feel the Giulia is a better car performance, styling, tech, cool factor. The GSF is amazing but I feel like its cool, fast but still isn't taken seriously and could use more to keep it relevant with the other big sport sedans out there. I have immersed myself with the QV for the last 9 months, have test driven 3 driven one for an hr on Cali mountain roads and its a beast. I spent a day with the GSF at the Lexus driving school in Fontana last year and had a blast with that car as well. Its well sorted handled great but felt like a bigger ISF, couldn't really "feel" the extra 50 HP with the GSF but the Lead and Follow with the professional drivers really sold me on the car.
Where I'm worried about the QV is depreciation, its a car that isn't holding up very well, check cars.com, kbb, and cars.com. look at the miles and year and look at the prices. I drive about 20-30K miles a year and I know this car with high miles wont be worth ****. So Im also wondering if i should pass?
Maintenance is another factory.. oil changes are about $200-250 bucks a pop and oh remember how your Lexus dealer gives you a loner for the day for oil changes. Alfa doesn't... what forum members are reporting is depending where you purchase your QV from determines if you do or do not get a loaner for service or warranty work... to me that bull****.. also the 3rd maint service is like $3600.00 the serpentine belt oil and a few checks have to be done. I think this was at 15K . Tires only last about 5-7K miles and then if the car does break down you have to deal with uneducated inexperiences alfa tech to work on it and you may not get the car back in weeks or months for a simple job.. Alfa has a LONG way to go from what i can tell online to fix a lot of these issues and i hate to say Us coming form Lexus we were spoiled and all dealers should treat customers like this. My local Dealer is part of a Maserati Ferrari dealership and from talking to my old service advisor who used to work for Volvo who is know there he says they don't skimp out of customer service. Loaners are Ghibli's and other Alfas. The Alfa dealers paired with Fiat and Chrysler dealers have opposite stories..
Where the GSF shines is value, customer service, slow depreciation, reliability... that isn't even a question or an issue. Its also fun but its also kind of boring. Lexus makes great cars but they also don't step out of their comfort zone because they don't want to tarnish their reputation..
The Alfa at this point may not be the right car for me just because of my situation. It would be my primary car and doing 30K a year in an Italian performance sedan is kind of scary to me.. The GSF would be the better fit for me but i think i would get board of it because its essentially my ISF just fatter and I actually got board of my ISF after 3 years. but 30K a year in a GSF is nothing.
It's tough. I say QV all day but if you want to keep the creature comforts that we are used to go with the GSF.
BTW there are alfa dealers offering 8-14K off 2018 QV's just to move them off the lot so deals are out there.
Interesting as this is the first time i have logged on CL since Nov17 and this is the first post I see. Ironically because I'm somewhat in the same position and have revisited the GSF again. So I too am in the process of purchasing a Alfa QV. I put a deposit down for an 18 that is being delivered sometime in April. However due to some of the issues I have read on the forums ( i'm also there under the same name) i'm starting to get cold feet. The reliability isn't what is scaring me away to be honest with you, its the customer service "or lack there of" that I am reading about that is making me reconsider. I owned a 2011 USB ISF for 3 years and I only changed brakes, tires and oil changes , never had an issue and when I sold it in Dec I sold it for 1500.00 less that what i purchased it for, couldn't believe it. My old 2007 Volvo R depreciated about 83% in the 7 years from when i purchased it brand new to what it was worth 7 years later. If you haven't noticed Quad prices have fallen dramatically almost as fast as the RCF and GSF did when they were released. its a 75-90K car and you can get them for low 60's and even high 50's. The 17's had a few bugs that were fixed via software updates but the 18's fixed them and have options for the 17s standard for the 18. A lot of the "issues" the car had were press vehicles that were rushed for the media but still they shouldn't have had those issues especially for a 90K car.
Back to your question I still feel the Giulia is a better car performance, styling, tech, cool factor. The GSF is amazing but I feel like its cool, fast but still isn't taken seriously and could use more to keep it relevant with the other big sport sedans out there. I have immersed myself with the QV for the last 9 months, have test driven 3 driven one for an hr on Cali mountain roads and its a beast. I spent a day with the GSF at the Lexus driving school in Fontana last year and had a blast with that car as well. Its well sorted handled great but felt like a bigger ISF, couldn't really "feel" the extra 50 HP with the GSF but the Lead and Follow with the professional drivers really sold me on the car.
Where I'm worried about the QV is depreciation, its a car that isn't holding up very well, check cars.com, kbb, and cars.com. look at the miles and year and look at the prices. I drive about 20-30K miles a year and I know this car with high miles wont be worth ****. So Im also wondering if i should pass?
Maintenance is another factory.. oil changes are about $200-250 bucks a pop and oh remember how your Lexus dealer gives you a loner for the day for oil changes. Alfa doesn't... what forum members are reporting is depending where you purchase your QV from determines if you do or do not get a loaner for service or warranty work... to me that bull****.. also the 3rd maint service is like $3600.00 the serpentine belt oil and a few checks have to be done. I think this was at 15K . Tires only last about 5-7K miles and then if the car does break down you have to deal with uneducated inexperiences alfa tech to work on it and you may not get the car back in weeks or months for a simple job.. Alfa has a LONG way to go from what i can tell online to fix a lot of these issues and i hate to say Us coming form Lexus we were spoiled and all dealers should treat customers like this. My local Dealer is part of a Maserati Ferrari dealership and from talking to my old service advisor who used to work for Volvo who is know there he says they don't skimp out of customer service. Loaners are Ghibli's and other Alfas. The Alfa dealers paired with Fiat and Chrysler dealers have opposite stories..
Where the GSF shines is value, customer service, slow depreciation, reliability... that isn't even a question or an issue. Its also fun but its also kind of boring. Lexus makes great cars but they also don't step out of their comfort zone because they don't want to tarnish their reputation..
The Alfa at this point may not be the right car for me just because of my situation. It would be my primary car and doing 30K a year in an Italian performance sedan is kind of scary to me.. The GSF would be the better fit for me but i think i would get board of it because its essentially my ISF just fatter and I actually got board of my ISF after 3 years. but 30K a year in a GSF is nothing.
It's tough. I say QV all day but if you want to keep the creature comforts that we are used to go with the GSF.
BTW there are alfa dealers offering 8-14K off 2018 QV's just to move them off the lot so deals are out there.
Last edited by Tokenblkgy; 03-21-18 at 11:28 PM.
03-22-18, 01:36 PM
#9
Can't say much about the Giulia Quadrafogliogiogiogiolio, but reviews have been great. Design is not in line with my taste, but that's obviously subjective.
Never German unless you've got Japanese backup. Which is why I do have a GSF to fall back on if the S6 breaks down (Audi is much better these days). :-D
Never German unless you've got Japanese backup. Which is why I do have a GSF to fall back on if the S6 breaks down (Audi is much better these days). :-D
03-22-18, 04:31 PM
#10
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I agree with what all of you said pretty much. I have watched alot of reviews for both cars and going head to head with other brands and these two are still in my top picks. At this point i am leaning more on the GSF for the reasons all of you mentioned. Around here the price of the Giulia's is between 90s-110gs (Cdn$) and dealers will not budge much at all despite all the issues etc. There is only maybe 3-5 for sale in all of Ontario and i'm not willing to import one from the US or a different province. As for the GSF as i mentioned earlier post, there is only one for sale at this point which i'm planning to go check it out in person and hopefully take if for a test drive, but not sure if they will let me drive it with salt still on the roads? Either way, before i make any type of purchase i will have to drive both. I just wonder how much they are willing to negotiate on the GSF knowing that its the only one for sale, and they know if someone wants it they will pay top dollar to have it. As for the depreciation factor, i'm not overly concerned about as i plan to keep it for a long time as the family's "fun" car but at the same time i dont want to know to that my car depreciated by like 70-80% in a few years either and i know with Lexus that will not happen!
03-22-18, 05:31 PM
#11
For any low-volume car, you might want to give yourself a better chance and not be necessarily tied to your local market. I've purchased four cars out of state. Two of them I flew in and drove home and two others I had shipped - all of them were pre-owned. On the GSF, since the mid-west US didn't (at the time) have a very decent supply, I purchased from Florida. Aside from an extensive set of online pictures, I never saw the car but I did pay for a rather detailed pre-purchase inspection and bought from a reputable dealer. Shipping was $725 and was picked up within 24 hours after contacting the transporter. All the paperwork was via overnight FedEx. It was quite a pleasant experience but I can see how it could make someone uncomfortable. That said, it certainly opened up options for additional supply and price points.
03-22-18, 10:37 PM
#12
Aside from the cliches of countries and their cars, a couple of thoughts led me to the GSF...
The GSF was a perfect fit. Plenty of technical (go fast) highlights, exotic sounding exhaust tuning, Lexus reliability, great depreciation (used), and relative simple mechanicals; i.e. normally aspirated + fixed suspension.
If the "latest and greatest" is in your wheel-house, I'm not sure the GSF will fit your bill. If it's character, durability, and technical attention to detail, the GSF is a difficult proposition to beat.
Good luck!
The GSF was a perfect fit. Plenty of technical (go fast) highlights, exotic sounding exhaust tuning, Lexus reliability, great depreciation (used), and relative simple mechanicals; i.e. normally aspirated + fixed suspension.
If the "latest and greatest" is in your wheel-house, I'm not sure the GSF will fit your bill. If it's character, durability, and technical attention to detail, the GSF is a difficult proposition to beat.
Good luck!
03-24-18, 09:18 PM
#14
Pole Position
Ahhhhh.. I didn't know you were in Canada.. I guess that makes things even more difficult from your ststement. Well I'm interested to.see what direction you go. I switch up every day. Watched a bunch of get videos today and Jeremy Clarksons Grand Tour segment on it... and then watch his review on the QV...
****s hard lol..
****s hard lol..
03-25-18, 08:07 AM
#15
Driver School Candidate
I was also looking at the GSF and the Alfa Quad.......
The Alfa handled great, and would no doubt be a fun car to drive.....
But in the end, I wanted the reliability of the Lexus.....
This from someone that has an Alfa dealer 5 minutes from my house....
I purchased the GSF , while if I got the Alfa Q, I probably would have leased,
and the deals on the Q weren't that great at the time I was looking for a car......
Don't know how the lease deals are now....
While with the GSF, like many others here, I got a substantial discount off MSRP.....
So taking price into consideration, it was a no brainer that the GSF was the better value.....
Shelly
Sure , the Quad is faster and handles great,
but its not like the GSF is a crap car..,..
The Alfa handled great, and would no doubt be a fun car to drive.....
But in the end, I wanted the reliability of the Lexus.....
This from someone that has an Alfa dealer 5 minutes from my house....
I purchased the GSF , while if I got the Alfa Q, I probably would have leased,
and the deals on the Q weren't that great at the time I was looking for a car......
Don't know how the lease deals are now....
While with the GSF, like many others here, I got a substantial discount off MSRP.....
So taking price into consideration, it was a no brainer that the GSF was the better value.....
Shelly
Sure , the Quad is faster and handles great,
but its not like the GSF is a crap car..,..