GS F Owners Using Enform???
03-26-18, 04:41 AM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
GS F Owners Using Enform???
Hello all. I tried to do a search, but could not really find feedback from GS F owners on this subject. I see the benefit of knowing whether a valet parking attendant goes all Ferris Bueller on your car ---- I suppose you can track it, limit speed, etc. Does anyone use that feature? Any war stories to share?
However, I do have concerns that all of my driving data would be shared with Lexus and recorded/transmitted AND discoverable in legal proceedings. God forbid you got into an accident experiencing the performance nature of the ride....I doubt your average ES or RX owner could care less. But if you do spirited driving in your GS F, one may wish to think through having all related data reside outside of your control. I get that there is a bunch of data being stored continuously on the GS F anyhow, but assume I can disable most of that if I want in the settings.
Finally, does the remote start feature even work on a GS F? I cannot tell and have not found the answer anywhere.
Again, I would appreciate any input as a new owner. Peace. Mike
However, I do have concerns that all of my driving data would be shared with Lexus and recorded/transmitted AND discoverable in legal proceedings. God forbid you got into an accident experiencing the performance nature of the ride....I doubt your average ES or RX owner could care less. But if you do spirited driving in your GS F, one may wish to think through having all related data reside outside of your control. I get that there is a bunch of data being stored continuously on the GS F anyhow, but assume I can disable most of that if I want in the settings.
Finally, does the remote start feature even work on a GS F? I cannot tell and have not found the answer anywhere.
Again, I would appreciate any input as a new owner. Peace. Mike
03-26-18, 06:12 AM
#2
Driver School Candidate
Remote start works, only about 90% of the time (it should be 100%). Further, it takes a variable amount time to kick in; +/- a minute or two, which is a big difference when you are leaving work and trying to time the remote start. Finally, the price Lexus charges for this crap service is outrageous.
The following users liked this post:
finny76 (03-26-18)
03-26-18, 06:30 AM
#3
Hello all. I tried to do a search, but could not really find feedback from GS F owners on this subject. I see the benefit of knowing whether a valet parking attendant goes all Ferris Bueller on your car ---- I suppose you can track it, limit speed, etc. Does anyone use that feature? Any war stories to share?
However, I do have concerns that all of my driving data would be shared with Lexus and recorded/transmitted AND discoverable in legal proceedings. God forbid you got into an accident experiencing the performance nature of the ride....I doubt your average ES or RX owner could care less. But if you do spirited driving in your GS F, one may wish to think through having all related data reside outside of your control. I get that there is a bunch of data being stored continuously on the GS F anyhow, but assume I can disable most of that if I want in the settings.
Yes it does, however your car (and your phone) must be within range of wireless service and your car will shut off as soon as you open the door. I'd say it's still useful for when you want to warm up (or cool down) your car before getting into it.
03-26-18, 08:32 AM
#4
Remote start works, only about 90% of the time (it should be 100%). Further, it takes a variable amount time to kick in; +/- a minute or two, which is a big difference when you are leaving work and trying to time the remote start. Finally, the price Lexus charges for this crap service is outrageous.
Most cars on the road today record data in an EDR (Event Data Recorder) which can be pulled in an accident investigation by authorities to see how fast you were going and the state of the car leading up to an accident. You have little control over what is recorded, so in that respect, I don't think there's anything unique with respect to the GS F, or lexus for that matter, recording driving data.
Last edited by finny76; 03-26-18 at 08:36 AM.
03-26-18, 09:47 AM
#5
But as far as tracking simple car data, there are manufacturers who have been doing this since the 90's so it's nothing new.
03-26-18, 10:51 AM
#6
Rookie
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Great feedback.
I have great concerns about our erosion of privacy. I will look into this more. Still seems like Enform is debatable even for free. I do like the idea of cooling the car down in the midsummer heat here in Florida.
Thanks again.
I have great concerns about our erosion of privacy. I will look into this more. Still seems like Enform is debatable even for free. I do like the idea of cooling the car down in the midsummer heat here in Florida.
Thanks again.
03-29-18, 04:41 PM
#7
Rookie
Thread Starter
FWIW, I talked to Lexus and their position is that the onboard vehicle data recorder, and the data on it, are owned by you and can only be accessed by Lexus trained techs (not dealers) with your written consent. However, if you wrap your GS F around a tree and sue Lexus claiming your side airbags did not deploy (for example) they will serve you with discovery to ascertain whether that is true or not (by pulling the data off the vehicle data recorder). Seems HIGHLY likely that a third party could do same if it is their car and not a tree that you wrap your GSF around!
With the Lexus Enform Agreement, you are agreeing to give over to Lexus and it’s third party vendors GPS locations, driving behaviors, etc. It is clear in the agreement and, in my opinion, effectively serves as a waiver or consent to any and all data on your vehicle data recorder.
Some may say there is no practical difference not using Enform or subscribing or agreeing to Enform services. I would argue that by NOT agreeing to Enform, you still have a strong argument that you OWN the vdr and all data resid No on it.
Many may not care, but given the recent Facebook personal data fiasco, one should carefully weigh whether those Enform services are worth parting with your data/privacy.
Not preaching, just sharing as some may have an interest. Have fun! Mike
With the Lexus Enform Agreement, you are agreeing to give over to Lexus and it’s third party vendors GPS locations, driving behaviors, etc. It is clear in the agreement and, in my opinion, effectively serves as a waiver or consent to any and all data on your vehicle data recorder.
Some may say there is no practical difference not using Enform or subscribing or agreeing to Enform services. I would argue that by NOT agreeing to Enform, you still have a strong argument that you OWN the vdr and all data resid No on it.
Many may not care, but given the recent Facebook personal data fiasco, one should carefully weigh whether those Enform services are worth parting with your data/privacy.
Not preaching, just sharing as some may have an interest. Have fun! Mike
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03-29-18, 05:57 PM
#8
Rookie
Thread Starter
Really helpful. I am inquiring about the “opt out” process intimated in a “warning” found in the privacy statement you linked to. My dealer never presented me with any notification of an opt out protocol.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
03-30-18, 08:52 AM
#9
I just renewed the enform services last night. When I went through the subscription process online, there was a disclaimer at the end before entering payment that was in bold lettering that said that vehicle data would be collected and sent to Lexus to determine driving patterns to further improve future lexus products... Wish I took a screen shot of it but I didn't read this thread before.
I still went ahead with the subscription because I'm getting the subscription for free.. But that disclaimer made me wonder...
I still went ahead with the subscription because I'm getting the subscription for free.. But that disclaimer made me wonder...
03-31-18, 10:04 AM
#11
Rookie
Thread Starter
Update:
Had a second call with Lexus. Here is the summary (assuming I am being correctly informed by the rep):
1) the EDR which is the vehicle’s equivalent to an airplane’s “black box” is absolutely NOT transferring data and Lexus can only obtain or pull data off of same with your EXPRESS WRITTEN consent. Exception would be if you sue Lexus or some other party sues you and seeks discovery of data on the EDR.
2) Enform services, also known as “Connected Services” in the Lexus Privacy Policy, works on GPS satellite data —- how fast you are driving, braking, where the car is located, etc. That is transmitting via cellular (voice call for emergency help) and GPS connection.
3) You can opt out of these Connected Services as we all know.
4) Your dealer may have already set it up however.
5) If the small light holes below your SOS button are green, you are “connected”. In other words, the vehicle is indeed transmitting GPS data to Lexus.
6) If you call and opt out, you should not see any green lights below or under the SOS button.
Again, I do not have anything other than the word of the rep and my notes to base the foregoing summary on. I am just sharing as others may find this helpful or useful.
I am more and more cheesed off that we must pay for Lexus Enform services so the manufacturer has our data that they can in turn market!!!! For the price we pay for the vehicle, at least Enform should be free to the original owner!
I am monitoring for green lights in the next week and have decided to opt out of Enform/Connected Services unless Lexus announces they are waiving ALL Enform subscription fees for so long as original owner owns the vehicle.
Peace all! Mike
Had a second call with Lexus. Here is the summary (assuming I am being correctly informed by the rep):
1) the EDR which is the vehicle’s equivalent to an airplane’s “black box” is absolutely NOT transferring data and Lexus can only obtain or pull data off of same with your EXPRESS WRITTEN consent. Exception would be if you sue Lexus or some other party sues you and seeks discovery of data on the EDR.
2) Enform services, also known as “Connected Services” in the Lexus Privacy Policy, works on GPS satellite data —- how fast you are driving, braking, where the car is located, etc. That is transmitting via cellular (voice call for emergency help) and GPS connection.
3) You can opt out of these Connected Services as we all know.
4) Your dealer may have already set it up however.
5) If the small light holes below your SOS button are green, you are “connected”. In other words, the vehicle is indeed transmitting GPS data to Lexus.
6) If you call and opt out, you should not see any green lights below or under the SOS button.
Again, I do not have anything other than the word of the rep and my notes to base the foregoing summary on. I am just sharing as others may find this helpful or useful.
I am more and more cheesed off that we must pay for Lexus Enform services so the manufacturer has our data that they can in turn market!!!! For the price we pay for the vehicle, at least Enform should be free to the original owner!
I am monitoring for green lights in the next week and have decided to opt out of Enform/Connected Services unless Lexus announces they are waiving ALL Enform subscription fees for so long as original owner owns the vehicle.
Peace all! Mike
04-01-18, 12:45 PM
#12
Update:
Had a second call with Lexus. Here is the summary (assuming I am being correctly informed by the rep):
1) the EDR which is the vehicle’s equivalent to an airplane’s “black box” is absolutely NOT transferring data and Lexus can only obtain or pull data off of same with your EXPRESS WRITTEN consent. Exception would be if you sue Lexus or some other party sues you and seeks discovery of data on the EDR.
2) Enform services, also known as “Connected Services” in the Lexus Privacy Policy, works on GPS satellite data —- how fast you are driving, braking, where the car is located, etc. That is transmitting via cellular (voice call for emergency help) and GPS connection.
3) You can opt out of these Connected Services as we all know.
4) Your dealer may have already set it up however.
5) If the small light holes below your SOS button are green, you are “connected”. In other words, the vehicle is indeed transmitting GPS data to Lexus.
6) If you call and opt out, you should not see any green lights below or under the SOS button.
Again, I do not have anything other than the word of the rep and my notes to base the foregoing summary on. I am just sharing as others may find this helpful or useful.
I am more and more cheesed off that we must pay for Lexus Enform services so the manufacturer has our data that they can in turn market!!!! For the price we pay for the vehicle, at least Enform should be free to the original owner!
I am monitoring for green lights in the next week and have decided to opt out of Enform/Connected Services unless Lexus announces they are waiving ALL Enform subscription fees for so long as original owner owns the vehicle.
Peace all! Mike
Had a second call with Lexus. Here is the summary (assuming I am being correctly informed by the rep):
1) the EDR which is the vehicle’s equivalent to an airplane’s “black box” is absolutely NOT transferring data and Lexus can only obtain or pull data off of same with your EXPRESS WRITTEN consent. Exception would be if you sue Lexus or some other party sues you and seeks discovery of data on the EDR.
2) Enform services, also known as “Connected Services” in the Lexus Privacy Policy, works on GPS satellite data —- how fast you are driving, braking, where the car is located, etc. That is transmitting via cellular (voice call for emergency help) and GPS connection.
3) You can opt out of these Connected Services as we all know.
4) Your dealer may have already set it up however.
5) If the small light holes below your SOS button are green, you are “connected”. In other words, the vehicle is indeed transmitting GPS data to Lexus.
6) If you call and opt out, you should not see any green lights below or under the SOS button.
Again, I do not have anything other than the word of the rep and my notes to base the foregoing summary on. I am just sharing as others may find this helpful or useful.
I am more and more cheesed off that we must pay for Lexus Enform services so the manufacturer has our data that they can in turn market!!!! For the price we pay for the vehicle, at least Enform should be free to the original owner!
I am monitoring for green lights in the next week and have decided to opt out of Enform/Connected Services unless Lexus announces they are waiving ALL Enform subscription fees for so long as original owner owns the vehicle.
Peace all! Mike
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