Has anyone gone from a torquey, forced-induction engine to the GS-F?
06-08-18, 04:27 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Has anyone gone from a torquey, forced-induction engine to the GS-F?
I'm currently driving an Audi A8 with the 4.0t engine. The car is a torque monster and pulls strong at any speed or RPM. I'm currently shopping for my next car because while the A8 is a luxurious, comfortable car, it's too big, and not quite sporty enough for my tastes, and more importantly, I'm coming up on the end of the warranty period and I do NOT want to own an A8 out of warranty.
I test drove a GS-F today and while I knew I would have to keep the revs up to extract power from the engine, I was surprised with how tame the GS-F was at low RPMs. I guess I've become spoiled/lazy by the effortless power of a twin turbo v8 engine at any RPMs. And while the GS-F was a blast once you got above 5K RPMs, and the engine makes absolutely glorious sounds, it's not exactly inconspicuous while doing that, and I'm not sure how much I'd want to live with driving the GS-F like I stole it on a daily basis. Otherwise, I loved everything about the car. If I was 20 years younger when I actually did drive cars like I stole them, it'd be a no brainer, but as I approach 50, I wonder if GS-F is for me, or if I should go with something more similar to what I'm currently driving (S6, M550i, E43). Again, I really liked the car, but it's tough to tell how much I'd like living with it as a daily driver after a 15 minute test drive.
Has anyone else gone from a turbo/supercharged torquey engine to a high revving v8? Thanks in advance for any input or thoughts.
I test drove a GS-F today and while I knew I would have to keep the revs up to extract power from the engine, I was surprised with how tame the GS-F was at low RPMs. I guess I've become spoiled/lazy by the effortless power of a twin turbo v8 engine at any RPMs. And while the GS-F was a blast once you got above 5K RPMs, and the engine makes absolutely glorious sounds, it's not exactly inconspicuous while doing that, and I'm not sure how much I'd want to live with driving the GS-F like I stole it on a daily basis. Otherwise, I loved everything about the car. If I was 20 years younger when I actually did drive cars like I stole them, it'd be a no brainer, but as I approach 50, I wonder if GS-F is for me, or if I should go with something more similar to what I'm currently driving (S6, M550i, E43). Again, I really liked the car, but it's tough to tell how much I'd like living with it as a daily driver after a 15 minute test drive.
Has anyone else gone from a turbo/supercharged torquey engine to a high revving v8? Thanks in advance for any input or thoughts.
06-09-18, 05:12 AM
#2
For my daily commute to work I rarely go above the 3.5k rpm when the second intake kicks in, therefore it sounds and drives like a normal sedan. On weekends tho it is a very different story for me.
I also drive a force induced car, the Audi TTs. Lots of torque but no where as fun as the GSF.
At first you think both cars are high horsepower, equally fast and very similar. But once you get used to the NA V8, you will never want to touch the turbo again. Audi makes one of the best Turbos out there, but NA engines are very smooth and will grow on you.
I would say after 1 month of driving the GSF, that is when you will start to really appreciate the vehicle.
I also drive a force induced car, the Audi TTs. Lots of torque but no where as fun as the GSF.
At first you think both cars are high horsepower, equally fast and very similar. But once you get used to the NA V8, you will never want to touch the turbo again. Audi makes one of the best Turbos out there, but NA engines are very smooth and will grow on you.
I would say after 1 month of driving the GSF, that is when you will start to really appreciate the vehicle.
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finny76 (06-09-18)
06-09-18, 07:03 AM
#4
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Can't be any worse than my wife's escalade, and probably not worse than my current A8. But more to your point, if you're going to drive a $70k+ car, gas consumption shouldn't be a financial concern (I can understand if you're concerned for environmental reasons). If it IS a financial concern, you should probably get a less expensive car. And outside of a Tesla, I'm not getting anything that's not somewhat of a gas guzzler, so you're really talking degrees -- i.e.the difference between sort of bad mpg (say high teens to 20 mpg) and really bad mpg (say low to mid teens). At $4/gallon and 10k miles per year, that's a difference of ~$600 per year or $50 per month which I hope isn't a consideration for anyone dropping $70K+ on a car.
06-09-18, 07:05 AM
#5
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
For my daily commute to work I rarely go above the 3.5k rpm when the second intake kicks in, therefore it sounds and drives like a normal sedan. On weekends tho it is a very different story for me.
I also drive a force induced car, the Audi TTs. Lots of torque but no where as fun as the GSF.
At first you think both cars are high horsepower, equally fast and very similar. But once you get used to the NA V8, you will never want to touch the turbo again. Audi makes one of the best Turbos out there, but NA engines are very smooth and will grow on you.
I would say after 1 month of driving the GSF, that is when you will start to really appreciate the vehicle.
I also drive a force induced car, the Audi TTs. Lots of torque but no where as fun as the GSF.
At first you think both cars are high horsepower, equally fast and very similar. But once you get used to the NA V8, you will never want to touch the turbo again. Audi makes one of the best Turbos out there, but NA engines are very smooth and will grow on you.
I would say after 1 month of driving the GSF, that is when you will start to really appreciate the vehicle.
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finny76 (06-09-18)
06-09-18, 07:11 AM
#6
I have had or driven some of the more common and similar cars to the GS-F from BMW, Audi, MB, etc. Most of these cars are forced inducted for various reasons, most of which I don't appreciate, especially the side of that argument that deals with emissions. For example, the Audi RS-5 used to have a glorious N/A V8... but now the new car will have a 2.9 litter twin turbo engine that truly sounds like a very used and sketchy Walmart vacuum cleaner. At these price ranges, I expect a little more passion without necessarily getting crazy.
The 2UR-GSE V8 on the GS-F is to me a gem of an engine, I love that thing... It has plenty of torque, sound and HP for most occasions, and most importantly it's a reliable Lexus. Don't know about you but I really don't like how often one has to visit and pay in dealerships when your car was made in Germany... It seems that the ever reseeding goal of increasing performance and competing with everybody has come at the expense of reliability for the Germans. One gets the feeling that those products have not been as thoroughly polished (as they were before) because of the frequency that things fail or break. Some people don't mind; I do.
The GS-F feels to me very well built and executed in all respects. My first Lexus is the current daily of my wife, a 2016 GS-350 F-Sport in Ultra White with a bunch of mods including having the OEM GS-F wheels and tires. We loved that thing and no matter how much we looked elsewhere, the GS-F was the best complement for our garage.
Lastly, for those few that do their own maintenance, troubleshooting and mods, these cars are great to work on. Very few if any special tools required, and generally straight forward procedures. I maintain a professional subscription of TIS and spend a lot of time reading and learning about the vehicle systems architecture, functionality, etc. Strange hobby to have, but I enjoy it.
Good luck with your decision.
The 2UR-GSE V8 on the GS-F is to me a gem of an engine, I love that thing... It has plenty of torque, sound and HP for most occasions, and most importantly it's a reliable Lexus. Don't know about you but I really don't like how often one has to visit and pay in dealerships when your car was made in Germany... It seems that the ever reseeding goal of increasing performance and competing with everybody has come at the expense of reliability for the Germans. One gets the feeling that those products have not been as thoroughly polished (as they were before) because of the frequency that things fail or break. Some people don't mind; I do.
The GS-F feels to me very well built and executed in all respects. My first Lexus is the current daily of my wife, a 2016 GS-350 F-Sport in Ultra White with a bunch of mods including having the OEM GS-F wheels and tires. We loved that thing and no matter how much we looked elsewhere, the GS-F was the best complement for our garage.
Lastly, for those few that do their own maintenance, troubleshooting and mods, these cars are great to work on. Very few if any special tools required, and generally straight forward procedures. I maintain a professional subscription of TIS and spend a lot of time reading and learning about the vehicle systems architecture, functionality, etc. Strange hobby to have, but I enjoy it.
Good luck with your decision.
06-09-18, 07:29 AM
#7
I'm assuming you did but just to ask -- Were you able to test out the Sport+ mode during the test drive? In normal driving mode, the car feels like a V8 on training wheels comparatively. Sport+ mode gives you a much better throttle response and the car will maintain a lower gear to keep you in a higher RPM range, so when you hit the gas you get a much better response. I love using it on the highway/back roads but in city or stop and go traffic, I take it off as a few times in the past I've hit the gas as I would for normal mode and lurched forward and then had to brake like an idiot to not hit the car in front of me.
To get more technical: once you hit 6th gear, normal mode will try to keep you in gears 6-8 and rpm below 1.5K without acceleration. In Sport+ mode the car will lower the gear based on speed to maintain your RPM between 1.5-2K without acceleration. As an example, if you are driving in Sport+ automatic mode at 45mph, you'll be in 5th gear, once your speed drops to 40, the car lowers your gear automatically to 4th. Lower your speed again to 30mph, the car will drop the gear to 3rd.
To get more technical: once you hit 6th gear, normal mode will try to keep you in gears 6-8 and rpm below 1.5K without acceleration. In Sport+ mode the car will lower the gear based on speed to maintain your RPM between 1.5-2K without acceleration. As an example, if you are driving in Sport+ automatic mode at 45mph, you'll be in 5th gear, once your speed drops to 40, the car lowers your gear automatically to 4th. Lower your speed again to 30mph, the car will drop the gear to 3rd.
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finny76 (06-09-18)
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06-09-18, 08:22 AM
#8
I came out of essentially the same motor but from a different brand, the 4.7 TT from a CLS550.
While you give up low-end grunt and effortless pull/shove, the experience of the GSF is more than offsetting - at least for me. That experience is more visceral, more direct, and while I may not use them to their full extent, I appreciate the go-fast technical goodies on the GSF; brakes, suspension, steering, etc.
The GSF is a more direct experience - especially when it comes to the motor. Linear feel relative to pedal effort, strong pull all the way to redline, and the sounds made are very different than the artificial feel of forced induction, especially turbos. After the CLS for 4 years, I genuinely enjoy and appreciate the feel, sounds, and looks of the GSF; it's certainly different. It has much more of a split personality than what the CLS could accomplish and it handles it very well. Not as mild mannered as the CLS in cruise mode but it's much more of a beast than the CLS /4.7TT above 4,000 rpms.
Good luck...
While you give up low-end grunt and effortless pull/shove, the experience of the GSF is more than offsetting - at least for me. That experience is more visceral, more direct, and while I may not use them to their full extent, I appreciate the go-fast technical goodies on the GSF; brakes, suspension, steering, etc.
The GSF is a more direct experience - especially when it comes to the motor. Linear feel relative to pedal effort, strong pull all the way to redline, and the sounds made are very different than the artificial feel of forced induction, especially turbos. After the CLS for 4 years, I genuinely enjoy and appreciate the feel, sounds, and looks of the GSF; it's certainly different. It has much more of a split personality than what the CLS could accomplish and it handles it very well. Not as mild mannered as the CLS in cruise mode but it's much more of a beast than the CLS /4.7TT above 4,000 rpms.
Good luck...
Last edited by embassured; 06-10-18 at 06:19 PM.
06-09-18, 09:39 AM
#9
This is a great summary:
The GSF is a more direct experience - especially when it comes to the motor. Linear feel relative to pedal effort, strong pull all the way to reline, and the sounds made are very different than the artificial feel of forced induction, especially turbos.
Btw if you ever bring the GSF to the track it handles like a proper sports car.
The GSF is a more direct experience - especially when it comes to the motor. Linear feel relative to pedal effort, strong pull all the way to reline, and the sounds made are very different than the artificial feel of forced induction, especially turbos.
Btw if you ever bring the GSF to the track it handles like a proper sports car.
06-09-18, 10:09 AM
#10
i can't speak to an A8, but i've a 2016 GSF and 2013 S6 (same engine as the A8) and the preference of which to drive depends on my mood. sounds aside, they're both really sleeper sedans and most people won't really pay attention to them. if you think you're going to get alot of attention in the GSF, that it will not do.
The S6 is a torque monster (relatively speaking), but it does have noticeable lunge from lag (nothing a tune couldn't fix though...
), so i appreciate the linear power delivery the GSF provides. I do agree, the low end on the GSF is pretty pitiful (even in Sport+) when you're used to low end torque, but there's some easy aftermarket mods you can do to assist with that (The stock exhaust is pretty restrictive and pinched, APEXi Accel Controller, etc)
While the S6 and GSF are similar in size, i wouldn't say the S6 is sporty. I call mine the rocket limo... because it does just that. it can go quick, but it's a cruiser. The GSF, I can definitely throw it around and not feel like i'm steering a boat.
I think you need to spend a couple of hours in a GSF to really get acquainted with it. My first 15 mins was meh as well as i was ready to go back to looking at M5s. Now I feel like i get into the GSF alot more than the S6 unless i'm going somewhere fancy.
The S6 is a torque monster (relatively speaking), but it does have noticeable lunge from lag (nothing a tune couldn't fix though...
), so i appreciate the linear power delivery the GSF provides. I do agree, the low end on the GSF is pretty pitiful (even in Sport+) when you're used to low end torque, but there's some easy aftermarket mods you can do to assist with that (The stock exhaust is pretty restrictive and pinched, APEXi Accel Controller, etc)While the S6 and GSF are similar in size, i wouldn't say the S6 is sporty. I call mine the rocket limo... because it does just that. it can go quick, but it's a cruiser. The GSF, I can definitely throw it around and not feel like i'm steering a boat.
I think you need to spend a couple of hours in a GSF to really get acquainted with it. My first 15 mins was meh as well as i was ready to go back to looking at M5s. Now I feel like i get into the GSF alot more than the S6 unless i'm going somewhere fancy.
Last edited by danwlee; 06-09-18 at 10:17 AM.
06-09-18, 02:09 PM
#11
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
i can't speak to an A8, but i've a 2016 GSF and 2013 S6 (same engine as the A8) and the preference of which to drive depends on my mood. sounds aside, they're both really sleeper sedans and most people won't really pay attention to them. if you think you're going to get alot of attention in the GSF, that it will not do.
The S6 is a torque monster (relatively speaking), but it does have noticeable lunge from lag (nothing a tune couldn't fix though... ), so i appreciate the linear power delivery the GSF provides. I do agree, the low end on the GSF is pretty pitiful (even in Sport+) when you're used to low end torque, but there's some easy aftermarket mods you can do to assist with that (The stock exhaust is pretty restrictive and pinched, APEXi Accel Controller, etc)
While the S6 and GSF are similar in size, i wouldn't say the S6 is sporty. I call mine the rocket limo... because it does just that. it can go quick, but it's a cruiser. The GSF, I can definitely throw it around and not feel like i'm steering a boat.
I think you need to spend a couple of hours in a GSF to really get acquainted with it. My first 15 mins was meh as well as i was ready to go back to looking at M5s. Now I feel like i get into the GSF alot more than the S6 unless i'm going somewhere fancy.
The S6 is a torque monster (relatively speaking), but it does have noticeable lunge from lag (nothing a tune couldn't fix though...
), so i appreciate the linear power delivery the GSF provides. I do agree, the low end on the GSF is pretty pitiful (even in Sport+) when you're used to low end torque, but there's some easy aftermarket mods you can do to assist with that (The stock exhaust is pretty restrictive and pinched, APEXi Accel Controller, etc)While the S6 and GSF are similar in size, i wouldn't say the S6 is sporty. I call mine the rocket limo... because it does just that. it can go quick, but it's a cruiser. The GSF, I can definitely throw it around and not feel like i'm steering a boat.
I think you need to spend a couple of hours in a GSF to really get acquainted with it. My first 15 mins was meh as well as i was ready to go back to looking at M5s. Now I feel like i get into the GSF alot more than the S6 unless i'm going somewhere fancy.
06-09-18, 08:42 PM
#12
Pole Position
Those of you who are, with the best of intentions, preferring the turbo cars are in for a shock. The problem being that the type of testing guidelines for CAFE standards are antiquated and do NOT factor the modern turbo engines.
I come from a professional automotive background, and know a bit about this fact.
Let me see if I can find the article...
Here's one regarding the efficiency subject:
The Trouble With Turbos
Here's a second one in which I urge you to pay attention to the section "Reducing Emissions"...what they are saying is VERY TRUE.
Why Ferrari Engineers Don't LIke Turbocharging
Upon boost, the engine needs to add more fuel (a rich mixture mind you) to go along with the boosted air being pumped in, to keep the engine from detonation. Excess fuel means excess CO2.
Quote:
"Government fuel-economy test cycles, especially those in Europe, approximate the driving style of a heavily sedated 83-year-old librarian. Since the engine is rarely taxed, the turbo doesn't spool up, so no extra fuel is used. But purposely driving slowly enough to keep the turbo from generating boost defeats the point of having a turbocharger in the first place. Sadly, out in the real world, riding that big, effortless wave of boosted midrange torque means burning extra fuel—and creating even more CO2. So much for reducing emissions." (Quoted from Road & Track, 1/8/2015)
This is 100% spot-on. SO, when the PTB decide to upgrade the test cycles for realistic modern-day turbo engines and realistic driving, you can kiss the Turbos goodbye and they will force an alternative, ahem, Electric car on us. After all, they can't go back to the NA engine, which, BTW has been made to run EXCEEDINGLY clean. To do so would admit they were wrong to villainize the NA engine in the first place. And they just can't have that.
In 2009, Porsche's NA flat 6 in the 911 put out cleaner air than the urban air it ingested.
But that's just not good enough...
I come from a professional automotive background, and know a bit about this fact.
Let me see if I can find the article...
Here's one regarding the efficiency subject:
The Trouble With Turbos
Here's a second one in which I urge you to pay attention to the section "Reducing Emissions"...what they are saying is VERY TRUE.
Why Ferrari Engineers Don't LIke Turbocharging
Upon boost, the engine needs to add more fuel (a rich mixture mind you) to go along with the boosted air being pumped in, to keep the engine from detonation. Excess fuel means excess CO2.
Quote:
"Government fuel-economy test cycles, especially those in Europe, approximate the driving style of a heavily sedated 83-year-old librarian. Since the engine is rarely taxed, the turbo doesn't spool up, so no extra fuel is used. But purposely driving slowly enough to keep the turbo from generating boost defeats the point of having a turbocharger in the first place. Sadly, out in the real world, riding that big, effortless wave of boosted midrange torque means burning extra fuel—and creating even more CO2. So much for reducing emissions." (Quoted from Road & Track, 1/8/2015)
This is 100% spot-on. SO, when the PTB decide to upgrade the test cycles for realistic modern-day turbo engines and realistic driving, you can kiss the Turbos goodbye and they will force an alternative, ahem, Electric car on us. After all, they can't go back to the NA engine, which, BTW has been made to run EXCEEDINGLY clean. To do so would admit they were wrong to villainize the NA engine in the first place. And they just can't have that.
In 2009, Porsche's NA flat 6 in the 911 put out cleaner air than the urban air it ingested.
But that's just not good enough...
Last edited by 1BlinkGone; 06-09-18 at 10:55 PM.
06-10-18, 08:48 AM
#13
I came from an E92 335i Msport. It had the N55. For its size, it was fast and torque was readily available. It was easy to drive fast, but it was not fun. There was no point in redlining that engine since it didn’t sound good and ran out of steam by about 5.7k rpms, so you would have to shift up.
I love the GSF engine. It’s a different experience and feel compared to N55. The N55 was just immediate speed with little effort, whereas the GSF is this building of power and it feels great. People say it has no low end torque, but I just push the pedal harder if I need power.
I love the GSF engine. It’s a different experience and feel compared to N55. The N55 was just immediate speed with little effort, whereas the GSF is this building of power and it feels great. People say it has no low end torque, but I just push the pedal harder if I need power.
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GoHorns (01-23-22)
06-10-18, 05:29 PM
#14
Lead Lap
I came from a twin turbo v6...Ghibli SQ4...only thing I miss is the sound...otherwise hands down love the GSF over that...(I am aware it was a smaller engine)..
Perhaps you would enjoy driving around in Sport+ turns the car into a different animal.
Perhaps you would enjoy driving around in Sport+ turns the car into a different animal.
06-11-18, 10:35 PM
#15
Pole Position
I came from an E92 335i Msport. It had the N55. For its size, it was fast and torque was readily available. It was easy to drive fast, but it was not fun. There was no point in redlining that engine since it didn’t sound good and ran out of steam by about 5.7k rpms, so you would have to shift up.
I love the GSF engine. It’s a different experience and feel compared to N55. The N55 was just immediate speed with little effort, whereas the GSF is this building of power and it feels great. People say it has no low end torque, but I just push the pedal harder if I need power.
I love the GSF engine. It’s a different experience and feel compared to N55. The N55 was just immediate speed with little effort, whereas the GSF is this building of power and it feels great. People say it has no low end torque, but I just push the pedal harder if I need power.
