The 2005 GS Jan 6th 2004 @ 8:30 am EST(ALL COMMENTS HERE PLEASE!)Pics pg 19
01-07-04, 10:58 AM
#526
Pole Position
A couple of points I wanted to make to both sides of this diatribe:
1. Lexus has released official hp numbers already: 4.3L 300hp - IMHO they should of bumped it up to 320 at least, but I think there will be a 2nd or 3rd year power "refresh" similar to the intro of the ES330, that is contingent on the next LS500(?) powerplant.
2. Although NIssan / INfiniti creates sporty / Bimmerish products, their quality and service still does not compare to Lexus. For those who believe that power / style is the number 1 priority amongst luxury buyers (especially japanese brands), look at the ratio of vehicles sold between the Infiniti Q45 and the Lexus LS430. It isn't even funny, although the Inifinit has the advantage in HP, price, and supposedly "style".
3. For those that are pointing out that Lexus is essentially a rebadged Toyota, with the advent of this GS, that will no longer be the case. Toyota will sell this exclusively as Lexus, even in the home JDM market. If you argue that this still is Toyota, might as well mention that Porsche is really a VW and the like...
1. Lexus has released official hp numbers already: 4.3L 300hp - IMHO they should of bumped it up to 320 at least, but I think there will be a 2nd or 3rd year power "refresh" similar to the intro of the ES330, that is contingent on the next LS500(?) powerplant.
2. Although NIssan / INfiniti creates sporty / Bimmerish products, their quality and service still does not compare to Lexus. For those who believe that power / style is the number 1 priority amongst luxury buyers (especially japanese brands), look at the ratio of vehicles sold between the Infiniti Q45 and the Lexus LS430. It isn't even funny, although the Inifinit has the advantage in HP, price, and supposedly "style".
3. For those that are pointing out that Lexus is essentially a rebadged Toyota, with the advent of this GS, that will no longer be the case. Toyota will sell this exclusively as Lexus, even in the home JDM market. If you argue that this still is Toyota, might as well mention that Porsche is really a VW and the like...
01-07-04, 11:05 AM
#527
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Toyota has been slow to respond in the past, but the have been much improved of late. The new 4Runenr has a V8. They also got rid of the ugly Avalanche style black plastic cladding within 1 model year. Not bad for Toyota.
The current head of Toyota also has acknowledged Toyota history of being slow to change, not listening to what people wanted, and also said they missed quite a few opportunities because of that. He said they didn't intend to miss those opportunities in the future. He also acknowledged that Toyota's management and those making decisions were isolated from the people that were buying the cars and the input they offered. He said that will also change
The T100 is a prime example of a missed opportunity. The public told Toyota give it a V8 or go home. We it never got that V8 and it never sold. Now the Tundra has a V8 is is doing much better.
As for Lexus I think they should take a page from the BMW book and make L-Tuned like M cars or AMG. They need to take it beyond the piece together after you buy your car parts. They need to have hopped up versions (looks, handling, and power, and yes even manual transmissions) of all their models that come from the factory ready to tear up the competition. That would help shake the "just a reliable luxury car but not necessarily exciting" image that I think they have.
I also assume that the looks of the car will grow on everybody as they get used to seeing it. I think only Chris Bangle has the ability to design a car that will never grow on your, no matter how much you see it. Thankfully he doesn't work for Lexus.
Anyhow, I think Lexus will listen. I think we should all push for more performance orineted versions around here. They will act if they see enough interest. The IS 430 is a great start; they just need to make it now.
The current head of Toyota also has acknowledged Toyota history of being slow to change, not listening to what people wanted, and also said they missed quite a few opportunities because of that. He said they didn't intend to miss those opportunities in the future. He also acknowledged that Toyota's management and those making decisions were isolated from the people that were buying the cars and the input they offered. He said that will also change
The T100 is a prime example of a missed opportunity. The public told Toyota give it a V8 or go home. We it never got that V8 and it never sold. Now the Tundra has a V8 is is doing much better.
As for Lexus I think they should take a page from the BMW book and make L-Tuned like M cars or AMG. They need to take it beyond the piece together after you buy your car parts. They need to have hopped up versions (looks, handling, and power, and yes even manual transmissions) of all their models that come from the factory ready to tear up the competition. That would help shake the "just a reliable luxury car but not necessarily exciting" image that I think they have.
I also assume that the looks of the car will grow on everybody as they get used to seeing it. I think only Chris Bangle has the ability to design a car that will never grow on your, no matter how much you see it. Thankfully he doesn't work for Lexus.
Anyhow, I think Lexus will listen. I think we should all push for more performance orineted versions around here. They will act if they see enough interest. The IS 430 is a great start; they just need to make it now.
01-07-04, 11:26 AM
#528
When shopping for my new 04 ES, I looked at MB CLK/E320, BMW 5-Series, Infiniti G35, and Acura TL. MB and BMW models were $20K+ more for much less car and poor reliability records. Infiniti and Acura were comparable in price but they yelled out "CHEAP" to me when compared to the ES - especially the interiors. Lexus was the obvious choice for me. Lexus has by far the best Value, Quality, Dependability, Service, Style, Comfort, Performance, Safety, Technology, Entertainment (ML), and Prestige in my opinion.
01-07-04, 11:43 AM
#529
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Wait just a minute here
When I first joined this board I got flamed and laughed for posting an old pic of what was "Definately not the next gen GS" I'm sure it happened to many others but now It looks like this old (first?) spyshot \ chop\ drawing is the closest one of all of them. What do you guys think?
Also this pic was taken way before the Nisaan Maxima came out.
Also this pic was taken way before the Nisaan Maxima came out.
01-07-04, 11:50 AM
#530
I'd have to disagree. It looks more like the new ES chopped. There was a more recent one, I think the Autospies version was closer than that one. That's just my opinion and $.02.
01-07-04, 12:27 PM
#532
Originally posted by bitkahuna
Look, Lexus hasn't even said what the V8 power is going to be plus since no engine changes have been announced for the 'flagship' (LS430) I don't think Lexus is ready to show their full engine hand.
Plus, remember this... Lexus doesn't do the AMG or M class thing, so the comparison should be GS4xx with E500 or new 5 series. The new 545i for example still 'only' has 325HP, so it's hardly a big step ahead of Lexus. And remember Lexus STARTED the HP war for widely available sports sedans when the 2nd gen GS came out with 300HP.
<grammar check>One more thing, "should of" should have been "should have".
</grammar check>
Look, Lexus hasn't even said what the V8 power is going to be plus since no engine changes have been announced for the 'flagship' (LS430) I don't think Lexus is ready to show their full engine hand.
Plus, remember this... Lexus doesn't do the AMG or M class thing, so the comparison should be GS4xx with E500 or new 5 series. The new 545i for example still 'only' has 325HP, so it's hardly a big step ahead of Lexus. And remember Lexus STARTED the HP war for widely available sports sedans when the 2nd gen GS came out with 300HP.
<grammar check>One more thing, "should of" should have been "should have".
</grammar check>
P.S. Stay on topic and check your grammar: "Lexus doesn't do the AMG or M class thing" ??? What thing?
01-07-04, 12:35 PM
#534
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Originally posted by jpa2400
Along with the E 500 at 302hp, and it still won't out run the GS 430, I think it would be safe to say even with the 430 engine now, and the new 6 speed auto, the new GS will keep up with a Automatic 545i.
Along with the E 500 at 302hp, and it still won't out run the GS 430, I think it would be safe to say even with the 430 engine now, and the new 6 speed auto, the new GS will keep up with a Automatic 545i.
The same improvement (if any) would apply to a same-HP/TQ 6 speed auto GS.
01-07-04, 12:40 PM
#535
Originally posted by GS430lvr
Stay on topic and check your grammar: "Lexus doesn't do the AMG or M class thing" ??? What thing?
Stay on topic and check your grammar: "Lexus doesn't do the AMG or M class thing" ??? What thing?
He's right, aside from the RMM commissioned IS430 (which was only a 1 car deal), Lexus doesn't do any AMG or M or SVT thing. A manufacturer-commissioned team to go out and finely tune the car and put it in a class of its own. ie: E320 -> E55 AMG, 3-series ->M3, Mustang GT -> SVT Cobra (i think), etc, etc, etc...
01-07-04, 12:42 PM
#536
Originally posted by tod071
TOPIC?!? After reading 35 pages of posts, who cares what the topic is. Its about the 2005/2006? GS and it also says ALL COMMENTS HERE PLEASE.
He's right, aside from the RMM commissioned IS430 (which was only a 1 car deal), Lexus doesn't do any AMG or M or SVT thing. A manufacturer-commissioned team to go out and finely tune the car and put it in a class of its own. ie: E320 -> E55 AMG, 3-series ->M3, Mustang GT -> SVT Cobra (i think), etc, etc, etc...
TOPIC?!? After reading 35 pages of posts, who cares what the topic is. Its about the 2005/2006? GS and it also says ALL COMMENTS HERE PLEASE.
He's right, aside from the RMM commissioned IS430 (which was only a 1 car deal), Lexus doesn't do any AMG or M or SVT thing. A manufacturer-commissioned team to go out and finely tune the car and put it in a class of its own. ie: E320 -> E55 AMG, 3-series ->M3, Mustang GT -> SVT Cobra (i think), etc, etc, etc...
01-07-04, 12:50 PM
#537
GS -Trance
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Originally posted by GlobeCLK
some modifications i did:
1) custom side skirts
2) custom rear bumper with vents (had to do it to avoid fatness)
3) sidestep sill piece painted body color
4) added body-side chrome trim to avoid the fatness
5) Prodrive rims
6) dark-tinted taillight trim
7) shadowline window trim (chrome becomes piano black)
8) win.racing rear spoiler
9) custom roof spoiler
10) C-pillar window trim piece (to achieve 2ndGen GS look that 1st Gen lacked and 3rd gen needs)
It's not as nice as GSTrance's work but I think it's a nice improvement over the stock piece
some modifications i did:
1) custom side skirts
2) custom rear bumper with vents (had to do it to avoid fatness)
3) sidestep sill piece painted body color
4) added body-side chrome trim to avoid the fatness
5) Prodrive rims
6) dark-tinted taillight trim
7) shadowline window trim (chrome becomes piano black)
8) win.racing rear spoiler
9) custom roof spoiler
10) C-pillar window trim piece (to achieve 2ndGen GS look that 1st Gen lacked and 3rd gen needs)
It's not as nice as GSTrance's work but I think it's a nice improvement over the stock piece
01-07-04, 12:51 PM
#538
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Originally posted by bitkahuna
Plus, remember this... Lexus doesn't do the AMG or M class thing
Plus, remember this... Lexus doesn't do the AMG or M class thing
...so the comparison should be GS4xx with E500 or new 5 series.
The new 545i for example still 'only' has 325HP, so it's hardly a big step ahead of Lexus. And remember Lexus STARTED the HP war for widely available sports sedans when the 2nd gen GS came out with 300HP.
Last edited by tomtnc; 01-07-04 at 12:53 PM.
01-07-04, 12:53 PM
#539
Originally posted by rominl
just like what i expected, the new GS interior is so luxurious. i like the interior a lot. and boy, the v8 engine... that's so NOT exciting
just like what i expected, the new GS interior is so luxurious. i like the interior a lot. and boy, the v8 engine... that's so NOT exciting
