BadAssGS3T

[QUOTE=Enigma869] I did not choose navigation for my GX as I was truly not impressed with the OEM unit.. I know that many GS owners have added aftermarket navigation units to their cars but I am not sure if anyone on the GX side have done the same.I wonder if it would be possible to replace the head unit in the GX with an aftermarket unit such as the one in that article? Any thoughts anyone?

Enigma869

[QUOTE=BadAssGS3T]
The key for this unit is the space it is going into has to be what's referred to as a "double din". Essentially, the space has to be twice as high as the standard stereo opening in many vehicles. I don't know much about what the space looks like in these Lexus' that don't have nav, but, my hunch is that it probably would work in many of them. I don't dislike the OEM nav and I think it's really important for resale value on any high end vehicle. I just think the voice recognition feature on every nav I've seen with this feature is horrible, so I hope that Pioneer has improved upon it with this brilliant machine!

John from Boston

lexguynj

The GX's sister, 06 4Runner gets slight modified exterior modifications (new grill, etc..) and finally beautiful 18" rims on the limited, so you would expect the GX to have the same treatment this year, but this was not the case. I believe the minor changes will come next model year, instead of a revamp.

In regards to buying the old ML and then the new ML comes out a couple of months later, that is rough.....but these days you can't really catch up.

lonewolf69

Lexi,

Just wondering, isn't the sister/clone, of the GX, the Prado? I've never once considered the 4 runner model from 03' to 06' to resemble anything remotely to the GX at all.

That said, I would think that, when the Prado is upgraded so will the GX, but then again, the Prado isn't sold here in the states and Toyota and Lexus are now "officially" two seperate companies with two different design teams... *SIGH*...

Can't wait to see the new version though what ever it is... (Keeping fingers crossed for a HYBRID model...)


-Alex

Gromulus

Hmmm. 4Runner doesn't "look" like the GX huh. Perhapos not but take a closer look at what's underneath. i.e. engine, transmisison, frame, etc. (V8 4Runner). Both made in Japan's Tahara plants. Not to start a flame war here, but I am surprised at how many people on this forum seem totally unaware of the relationship.

Like many (more so on other forums than others) I looked at both when shopping in '04 but just couldn't jusify the extra 13K at the time. I compared a GX with KDSS - the only way I would own one - to the X-REAS equipped V8 4Runner Limited with NAV (both equipped for towing, all standard on the Runner) The GX was a bit quieter , more interior head room, and higher quality plastic and leather components. Of course to get the KDSS I would have had to buy the Sport package and that did include lots of bells and whistles. What sold me on the 4Runner was looks (more masculine and sporty IMO), better on-road handling (less tippy due to lower height as well as being easier toss around), faster due to less overall weight, the center armrest, higher tow weight capacity, and the lift-up tail gate WITH sliding window. Third row seats in either are a joke. With the same 4.7L V8 I have averaged 21 MPG highway, 16 MOG city, and 18 - 19 combined overall on my daily commute. While Toyota/Lesu "recommends" 91 octane, I have used 87 octane almost exclusively in my 38,000 miles. Not too bad for a relativley heavy full-time 4WD SUV.

I have visited the Tahara plant since my company is a supplier to Lexus and Toyota here and in Japan. Seeing both being manufactured and coming off the line - very similar. The product my company makes is the same for both.

Again, not starting a war here. I realize this is a Lexus forum and obviously you all found value in the GX over the 4Runner. Just wanted to clear some things up to those of you who really are unaware of the (extremely) common platfrom.


Yes, the new Limited does come with pretty 18" alloy wheels! Hmmm, 18" wheels/60 series tires., Maybe for a mall runner than never goes off the asphalt. Hard to believe but I hear there are people putting 20 and 22" wheels on SUVs! Glad my '04 came with 17" wheels.

Peace

bunka

The fact that the GX is not available outside the US should make the people on here realize that the Prado is simply Toyota taking advantage of the popularity of the GX model here in the states. All three of these trucks (The 4-runner, the Prado and the GX) are ALL based on the same chassis. Of course, the 4-runner is less expensive but it's also noiser and has a slightly different body shape. It also comes STANDARD with a v6. If you wan tthe v8, it's an upgade in price. If you want a sunroof, it's additional, if you want NAVI and a higher end stereo (it is an upgrade in all the trucks). When I was shopping for my GX I did investigate the 4-runner quite closely. By the time I added all the peice-parts to the 4-runner to make it even close to the GX, the price difference was a little less than $5K (after all discounts applied by both dealers) so the $13K difference is a little mis-leading. Lexus provides a rental car for EVERY service, Toyota does not. Lexus service personnel are (generally) much, much nicer than the typical Toyota ones. The GX looks nicers (IMHO) than the 4-runner. and to top if off, the GX is "QUIET" inside whereas the 4-runner isn't bad but it does still feel like a truck whereas the GX "feels" and sounds like a sedan.

Gromulus

Again, I priced out a V8 4Runner Limited vs. a GX with the Sport Package - the only way in my region to get the KDSS. Most V8 4Runner Limiteds are packaged with the X-REAS, NAV, and sunroof. The V8 models come standard with a 7000lb rated WDH receiver and electical tow connections. The GX with Sport package (and set-up to tow) listed out at over 53K at the time. Today I can go on the Toyota site and "build" the loaded V8 4Runner and it lists for just about 44.6K . The GX with Sport package ends up at 56.6K. Of course thus does include other options like the fancier stereo, third row seats, and rear DVD. Toyota/Lexus does not give many option for customizing your vehicle. You are forced to take the packages as offered and the regional differences give even less choice. Too bad they do not offer the KDSS as a stand alone option.

I could of obtained a better disount (percentage wise) off the GX, but it was still much more than the Runner. The differential would be less if you opted for a GX w/o KDSS. My dealer to this day stocks very few KDSS Sport equipped vehicles.

The 4Runner does not come "standard" with a V6. There are different models. There are six 4WD models to choose from: SR5, Sport, and Limited - both being offered with either the V6 or V8 varieties. Of coures 2WD models are offered but I have never seen one in my region.(A 2WD SUV........Hmmm)

I test drove the GX and 4Runner Limited several times and, IMO, the difference in ride "quality" was minimal. The GX has slightly less road noise bit the equivalent very low level engine noise with the same V8. Both models had Michelin Cross-Terrains on 17" wheels for comparison. I find it difficult to say that the 4Runner is more "truck-like" since thay are the same basic vehicle. The GX felt more "tippy" to me - evident when taking curves at higher speeds. Perhaps the higher height contributes here. I am comparing the GX to the X-REAS equipped Runner. The X-REAS makes a world of difference in the on-road handling charateristics of the Runner. Perhaps many of you never really test drove the V8 4Runner Limited with X-REAS.

Lexus dealers are "nicer"? Hmmm.. Seems a bit anecdotal to me. In my case the same dealer owns both and they are right next door to one another. I have obtained equivalent service from both over the years. I will admit that the Lexus dealership has a nicer waiting room and their salesmen always wear suits.

As I mentioned, looks are a matter of opinion. Many 4Runner owners feel that that style is more masculine and sporty looking vs.the more generic soccer Mom look of the GX. A matter of preference. If the price differential was smaller and the GX came with a standard tail gate with sliding glass I may have opted for it. I do love the soft leather in the GX. Many 4Runner owners actually do take their vehicles off-road and prefer cltoht interior. I like leather for easier clean-up and the seat heaters! Most leather interior in cars today are chepaer than im the old days and for a reason: leather quality is cheaper and more look-alke synthetics are being used . These have come a long way. Lexus does use a very high quality leather. The leather trim in the 4Runner is much nicer than that being used in other brands, Aftre two years and 38K, mins still looks brand new with no sags or tears. It survives backwoods camping tripos with our three kids and cleans easily. I can't say this about some of the other brands/ "leather". BTW - exterior coating (paint) type and quality is the same on Toyota and Lexus vehicles - take my word on this one.

It will be interesting to see how these two models evolve and compare over the next few years. Either way, these are true SUVs that can handle just about any off-road condition (short of a Wrangler Rubicon) and still give a quiet, comfortable ride on the road. Of course quality is top notch with just about anything Toyota/Lexus makes. Both brands hold their value extremely well:


http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....e&pos=EditLead

lonewolf69

Groulus,

I merely pointed out that the sister vehicle to the GX is the Prado and NOT the 4Runnier, yes I do realize that all three (3) models share the same chassis and engine(and in HINDSIGHT, I should have added this in my original post), but, I was merely trying to point out that the GX will be upgraded when the PRADO is upgraded, because body/design wise, it's a PRADO and not a 4RUNNER.

That was sticking to the original question that was posted by AL470:

The 4Runner has already been re-designed at least once since the GX debutted in 03' yet the GX body/design has remained static/unchanged, despite the 4runner's updates.

Prado Picture:


Gromulus, please do realize, I'm not bashing or belittling the 4Runner in any shape or form, but that if one was simply looking for an update or info on a GX update, the barometer should focus on the Prado and NOT the 4Runner, despite having the same CHASSIS and ENGINE... I'm glad you purchased your 4Runner instead of the GX and that you're happy with your decision, just as we're happy with out decision to purchase the GX. Some like Breyer's Vanilla others like Hagen Daas' Vanilla ice cream but in the end, it's still ice cream and we enjoy it, despite the same Vanilla flavor...

***********************************************************************************************

Getting back ON topic!!!


Al470, I spoke to my dealer today to double check as I'm interested in getting FULL (true) Dolby Digital/DTS surround sound for the GX and he speculates that the change may come in 2008 and that is a vague maybe at best... So if you were/are still thinking about upgrading or waiting on new design, please factor in 2008 (minimum) as part of your decision.

Which GX do you currently own, if you have an 03' in might be worth it to trade in for the BlueTooth, updated NAV, upgraded Engine with VVTi, and your depreciation/trade-in value...

Since, I just purchased an 05' model, I'll "stick" with it for a little while longer before I upgrade, UNLESS, a HYBRID version comes out, I'll gladly pay the PREMIUM for the HYBRID version!!!!

Let us know what you decide?



-Alex

Gromulus

No problem Alex. As I said, both great vehicles. Just one correction. The 4Runner has not really been redesigned since the 4th generation appeared along with the GX in 03. Probably the biggest exterior change was this year 's move to round fender openings vs. square and from square to round fog lights - if that counts as a redesign. Oh yeah - and those 18" wheel on the Limited.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Enjoy!

looknow12

Actually the manufacturer is Fujitsu TEN that makes Eclipse (www.eclipse-web.com) and then nav units for Toyota and Lexus. I happen to have the AVN5495 in my Tundra. 04 GX470 has Gen3 Nav.

looknow12

The Prado's can be found in Europe have a 2.4l Diesel engine I believe.

V8_Fan

Toyota has always made a short, medium, and long wheelbase landcruiser although since the 1980's, they've only sold the long wheelbase (LC 60/80/100). The short and medium were 2-door and 4-door LC 70 series (the boxy ones you see in Third World countries). Those are still sold overseas (Australia, Africa, Central/South America, Middle East) for heavy-duty applications (mining, offroad ambulances, farm use, etc.), but the Prado has taken over the medium/short wheelbase category and comes in both a 2-door and 4-door. However, it is more basic than the GX. The body/chassis is the same except for the front quarter panels, headlight, bumper, and grille (Prado has a notch where the bumper meets near the front tire), but engines are the 3 liter turbo diesel and 4 liter V6 (used in the 4runner/taco). It used to be sold in a 4-cyl gasoline engine (same as used on the late 90's tacoma 2wd pickup). It's only available w/ the V8 in N. America in the GX. Also, the overseas Prado doesn't come w/ KDSS, the better sound insulation, and other goodies as the GX but you can get leather and the dvd. The 4runner (hilux surf in Japan) is only sold N. America and Japan. It was discontinued in other countries from '96. The 4runner's primary market is the US, so it comes w/ the V6 or V8. In Japan, you can only get the 4 liter V6 now (used to be able to get a turbo diesel and 3.4L V6, but they're trying to reduce diesel particulate emissions, so diesels are less available). The 4runner lacks headroom bigtime if you have the moonroof. What were they thinking? After all, Americans are generally pretty tall! This is one reason I didn't buy one. GX/Prado have a lot more headroom, but are more top heavy because of it. 4Runner seems to have more complaints than the GX (noisy moonroof, poor front seats that have movement/play in them, vibrating steering at certain speeds (V8), tapping feel on the back of the brake pedal, plus the infamous clunk. These were another turn-off for me...almost seemed like I'd be taking a "risk" buying a new V8 4runner and hoping not to have a vibrating steering column at 70mph. So you guys can rest assured that the Prado's overseas are not the same as your GX's.

OTOH, the LX is an international vehicle, which is (my guess) why the Mark Levinson accepts a cassette! Cracks me up everytime I look at it. Couldn't they have put a second CD insert there? I guess they're trying to design the audio system for every country. BTW, the LX is way cheaper here than in Canada or Australia. Using the current currency rates, the LX lists price is $90K USD in those countries!

Gromulus

I concure re. the decreased headroom in the 4Runner with sunroof but your other comments are extremely anecdotal. Go to any forum and read the good and the bad. I could point out complaints re. the GX that turn up on this forum quite frequently (i.e the infamous clunk and the "lean"). Not exactly a "statistically valid" comparison is it?

Perhaps a better comparison is the new April Consumer Reports which lists reliability ratings for both vehicles. Interestingly, the 4Runner (4th generation) actually rates slightly better overall than the GX. The 03, 04, amd 05 GX rate "better than average", "better than average", and average while the 4Runner rates "better than average", "much better than average" and "better than average" for the same years. Both vehicles are extreley reliable choices.

As a technical professional I deal in facts and data. As I mentioned before I have visited many automotive plants, including the Tahara plant and have seen both GX and 4Runner beng built - on the same line. The product my company makes is identical for both the Lexus and Toyota vehicles being built in Japan.

While the products are similar, the markets are obviously not. The more I frequent both GX and 4Runner forums the more different I think the buyers are. GX owners look at the 4Runners as being "cruder" and usually do not even know or claim the same lineage. GX buyers obviously place more emphasis on butter soft leather and home-qualty sound systems. On the other hand the 4Runner owners probabaly see themselves are being more savy consumers by buying the same basic vehicle without the extra luxury items for less. I guess I fall into the latter category. We all rationalize our buying decisions. Take this for what it is worth but I feel the average 4Runner buyer knows much more about his vehicle than the average GX buyer. I get a kick out of the threads on this forum in which new buyers wonder how to shift their GXs out of 4WD or the guy that couldn't understand why the IIHS rates the GX and 4Runner the same and then goes on to equate the GX/4Runner comparison to that between a Ford Explorer and Range Rover!

Hey, we pays our money and makes our choices. Either way, enjoy your vehilce. While neither are cheap vehicles, I suppose I would feel slightly worse going off-road and getting scratches on a GX rather than my Limited 4Runner. This weekend the wife and I took our 4Runner out to the woods for some unseasonable winter backwoods camping. Since it was so muddy we didn't bother with a tent and slept in the Runner. The Runner did great getting out into the woods. Lots of muddy fire and washed out logging roads with mud up to 8" deep. Lots of road debris as well since this is off-season for logging. The Runner cleared all obstacles and didn't get stuck but the Cross Terrain tires did slip more than I like. I will go for Revos next time around. The Revos tires are common "upgrades" for 4Runner owners but I see very few endorsements on this forum. I think more 4Runner owners probably use the capabilities of these vehicles more than the average GX owner, although I drive mine to malls as well. LOL!

IMHO.

Flame on boys.

JWS3

And to me, it simple: I find the 4runner rather unattractive, especially with respect to the interior, which is an odd compilation of goofy gauges, misshapen controls and mid 80's styling cues. If it had a (to me) more attractive design I might well have considered it. Took one look at the interior and said "no thanks". My wife's Sienne XLE Ltd has a far more attractive interior & dash.

You are likely right that the average 4runner owner knows more about his vehicles than a GX owner, just like many Civic owners know more about their cars than most MB drivers. Why? Because many buy the more expensive vehicle just because they can, which is also why Rolex sells 10K watches despite the fact that a Timex is more accurate. People like to show off. Its that simple. I know many people who, despite knowing that a Camry & ES330 are substantially the same car would buy the ES simply because they consider the Camry to be a rather pedestrian, common and low rent car.

Me, I ordered a GX because of what it CAN do, not necessarily what I WILL do with it. I like having a vehicle that can go through or over obstacles that would cripple an ordinary car. And, if I can do it in style & comfort, with fine wood trim, a meticulously crafted interior and more than all the better! I actually like that the GX is based on or otherwise closely related to, the 4runner. Why? Because of the 4run's reputation for toughness & reliability. I like to think of the GX as a 4 runner, but with a pretty face, appropriate luxury/features and Lexus service. Don't know how things are out your way, but around here the Lexus dealer treats one well, while the Toyota waiting room often looks like the casting call for the movie "Deliverance". Yeah, I know I am paying out the wazoo for this, but to me its worth it.

Remember, on these boards you'll see a likely more enthusiatic crowd. Wouldn't be here if they weren't.

trebien

Agreed. I would have gladly chosen a 4runner if it were more attractive... I just couldn't get excited about the vehicle, so I chose a GX.