JWS3

Well, looks like a GX may NOT be in my future after all. Got a call from the sales mgr @ the dealership reminding me that the GX should be in shortly and adding the we need " to re-evaluate the trade as 4 months have passed since the order was taken". Uh-ohhh.......

My original deal was my car ('04 MB E500--loaded & w/ 12K miles and in PERFECT condition) plus $4k cash. Pretty good deal & reflected $500 over invoice plus and a trade value extrapolated at around $45K +/- or so. Thought at the time it was very good & even posted here as to my suspicions/concerns, to which I was told I was being " too damned suspicious and have lived in NY for too long".

Looks like my concern was well founded. All of a sudden the market has "changed" and I am being asked to come up with not 4K, but 10.4K plus---and get this--- the GX was not ordered with the RSES as originally thought and as was marked on the contract. The total disparity is not the 4K I was promised, but is now approaching11-12K!! Does the phrase "grab your ankles" have any meaning?

There isn't too much for me to do here-- Unless they suddenly agree to honor our admittedly verbal agreement they can pretty much keep the damned thing. So much for the salesperson's affirmative representation that "we won't go and change the trade price on you". Suuurrreeeee.

I'll keep the gang here posted, but it isn't looking all that great, at least for now.

rtanouye

JWS3,
You are being screwed. I would call the sales manager back up and insist that they honor the agreement. I can see that $500 over invoice as an issue with the dealership, but I've read where GX's of the lot are selling for that. When I ordered my GX (without 3rd row seats), I agreed to $1,500 over invoice, figuring that I would not be in the "driver's seat" when negotiating with them. I was okay with that, because I did not want 3rd row seat.

Now they are trying to sell you a car without RSES?!? And with a premium! The only think I can think of is that they found someone that is willing to pay higher than your current deal. The dealer cost has not gone up in the past 4 months. They are extracting more money from you.

Did you place a deposit on the car? Was it cashed by the dealer? If so, that would be an implied agreement between the dealer and you.

I would contact a reporter at your local newspaper that features consumer complaints and expose this heavy handed tactic. I would also start the order process for another car with another dealer. I don't think it will take 4 months for a new order. I had a 7 month wait and got delivery this February. I believe the factory has created enough backlog that they may get to you order sooner. Other posters have noted 2 month delivery times.

Good luck.

LeslieRC

I regret to say this, but it appears that you may have done it to yourself.

I don't see that there ever was a deal.

There was nothing in writing and/or no deposit from you. As such, there was no consideration and, therefore, no contract.

Consider the facts. There was nothing on the table from you to compel the dealer to perform.

You could have followed your instincts (you said that you were suspicious from the beginning) and got the sales manager to sign an offer sheet. If the dealer's offer sounded too good to be true, you could have accepted it and locked-in your deal at that time by reducing the agreement to writing and placing a deposit on your truck

On the other hand, once the truck is at the dealership they have to sell it to someone. Your position in this regard could be something like, "this is not the GX we discussed several months ago, so this now is a different negotiation."

Sorry for throwing cold water at your situation, but based on the facts you gave that's the way I see it.

JWS3

say "Trade plus $4k". Their "out" is micro print on the back which reserves the right to reappraise a car upon delivery. I initially read it to mean that if the trade has 30K more miles or is wrecked, etc. then they, of course, had the right to re-think. There was, of course, always the possibility that they could do something like this, but based on the comments/experiences posted here I did not think it likely.

What I suspect is they offered a very good deal, thinking they'd have the truck here in a month or so, not 4 months as things turned out. When I pressed the Sales mgr about the saleswoman's promise re: no decrease, he said "well, she was only here one month when she supposedly said that" As if that makes a difference. She was and is an "agent" of the dealership and can bind them.

I live 200 miles from the dealer and lack a realistic ability to fight it in what to me is an unfamiliar jurisdiction. Maybe I should contact the local paper and TV stations' consumer affairs people and see if they are interested. Hmmmm...

rklages

I've seen this happen to a bunch of people no matter the brand. The fact of the matter is that they 100% have the upper hand in a situation like this and almost always take advantage of it. Basically you have waited x months for your order and they know that you want the car (or you would not have waited) They never will do anything in writing because they don't know the change in condition in your trade over the time your waiting, and know they can low ball you when the car comes in because if you ordered it, it means you can't go somewhere else and get it - it's never a great situation unless you are just buying outright and setup the deal before the order. The only slightly good news is they ordered it wrong, so you can tell them to go screw and order the correct one somewhere else (or maybe get them to deal since they are stuck with it - looks like the wait time is less now, so another 2 months and you can have the one you want).

Not sure what specifics you where waiting for, but one thing I have found with Lexus unlike other companies is they don't really like to even look at other dealers inventory and hate to transfer vehicles between dealers, so sometimes just taking a few hours and calling all the dealers within a reasonable driving distance to see if they have something that suits you.

Sorry you had to go though all this after the long wait - I hope something works out for you.

Rob

V8_Fan

If you didn't get it in writing, there's no deal. Also, it seems if they ordered the vehicle for you but you didn't put any money down, there's no obligation for you to buy. Did you sign any paperwork agreeing on the price of the GX and the trade-in price? When I bought my LX, I signed the paperwork that day the deal was done, but didn't put anything down until I took delivery. The dealer even said I could take the car home, then return it the day of delivery to have it detailed, but I declined.

JWS3

The reality is that they are holding the cards. I could make a big deal out of it, but in the end it is hard to do this from 200 miles away. If I guess correctly, they only recently decided they initially offered " too much" for the trade and now want to "correct" it. My response is bascially "GFY", although I may also contact the local papers and TV consumer affairs people. While the price on the GX is fair @ $500 over invoice, they now want about $7500 (yes, you read this right--$7500) more on the trade. While I understand that my car may have dropped a bit in the preceeding 4 months, it most certainly did NOT drop by $7500. Pr*cks........

newgx

JWS3,

I would lodge an official complaint with Lexus Customer Service in California. Go to the website and find out the phone number.

Although I love my GX, I was disappointed to discover that the Lexus dealerships are not above resorting to common car salesman-type chicanery. I had to go through the customer service route on my purchase.

Anyway, sorry to hear of your predicament. I know how long you had been waiting.

The G Man

Sorry to hear about your situation JWS3. It sounds like they are not able to get a non-sports with KDSS in your color. Non-sport with KDSS is very hard to find, there are a few around, but not too many. The best thing to do now is just to cut ties with Lexus of Watertown and try to find a dealer that has a non-sport with KDSS on the lot. It is alot easier to deal with a car on the lot than try to order one.
I have gone thru this myself with another hard to find car. I actually put down a deposit and had a contract. The dealer couldn't find the car after 3 months and they just kept giving me that " They are working hard trying to locate it " line. Finally after 6 months, I gave up and got my deposit back.

JWS3

It was specially ordered, albeit without the RSES as was supposed to be there and is expected to arrive within the next 2 weeks or so. I can only surmise that thy no longer want to honor their offer on my trade for whatever reason. yes, it was a very good offer, but that doesn't change things. I shall offer to make an allowance for my car's loss in depreciation over the past 1/3 year (4 months) and no more. That's about 1500 bucks +/-, meaning they would get my car plu $5500 instead of the 4K originally agreed. If they continue to want a total of 10-11K then the phrase "GFY" comes to mind, followed by communications with the local papers/media and maybe even the Attorney gen'l.

GrdnRxR

Hi,

Have you tried to sell the trade yourself? I was in a similar spot as you. I was real concerned about the drop in my trade during the 3-5 month wait for a special order. I ran an ad and my RX went quick.

I would try to sell your trade and let this GX go for now. They are going to want to sell you the GX when it comes in. Hold your ground. If they won't play, then get on the computer and start shopping. there are dealers out there that will deal and work with you.

There are some out there, you just need to find the dealer that has it

Steve

lonewolf69

JWS,

I'm really REALLY surprised to hear this from the Lexus dealer... I would first try to speak to General manager first regarding this issue and kindly explain to him/her that through no fault of your own, your order was delayed and gently remind them that Lexus' corporate image of customer satisfaction is #1 and since you have all the paper worked signed and stamped, it should be honored. If for some reason this still doesn't work out, contact Lexus Corporate in writing with copies of the invoices and order.

Hope this helps, good luck!




-Alex

JWS3

Here is a copy of what I sent to the dealer concerning this situation. I will also be mailing a copy of them. I am also contemplating contacting Lexus corporate and local consumer advocates at area newspapers/TV, etc.

Let me know what you think.


Per our conversation I have taken the time to review my order of a 2006 GX and the circumstances relating thereto. A brief re-cap is in order. A copy of this is being sent to Nikki as well for her edification.

On or about 11/15/05 my wife and I traveled to your dealership from NY based on the express recommendations of various persons on a Lexus owners' internet forum. We first met with Nikki Condon, who proved to be a pleasant person to deal with. We first test drove a non KDSS equipped version and, quite frankly, didn't care for it. Handled like a brick. After some effort, Nikki located a truck with KDSS on the lot, which we also took for a ride. Much better.

Upon returning to the dealership, we met first with Nikki and then with both you and her. You personally suggested a price on the GX of $500 over invoice. You would keep the 2% holdback. After reviewing my MB E500 for trade value, you left to make a few calls, which I believe were to check on its value. Upon your return you first offered the GX for my car plus about $7K. That was too much for me. You then proposed my car plus $4K, which I agreed to and left a $500 deposit. You still have it. The GX agreed to was fully optioned and included KDSS, RSES (DVD), 3rd row, spoiler, Nav/ML, tow prep, preferred options package and more. The list price at that time inclusive of ALL these options was $56,453, which is reflected on the contract. Invoice was about $48,446. The sales price reflecting $500 over invoice would thus be $48,946.

Based on the above, we can easily deduce that the agreed "trade" price was $45,946 ($49,946 - $4000)

Since the truck as optioned was not in stock it had to be ordered. Nikki told me that the process took about 90 days, with the factory order going in on or about 12/19/05. I specifically asked her the following "Will the price on my trade be changed or will someone try to pull something and lowball me since the order will take a few months?" Her response: "No, we would not do that to you. We don't do business like that". Based on our conversation yesterday, it would seem to the contrary.

Over the next 2 months I got periodic updates and learned in early March that the truck was on its way and was expected to arrive at the port around 3/15/06. Delivery was "guesstimated" to occur around 3/25/06. Nikki's estimates have so far proved accurate.

You can imagine my surprise when on 3/13/06 I got a call from you which sought to renegotiate the deal. Despite our agreement, which you personally both proposed and accepted, I was told that not only was the truck ordered without the RSES (DVD), having an invoice cost of about $1250, but the dealership intended to renege on its agreement and now sought not my car plus $4,000 as agreed, but some $10,500, which did NOT reflect the mysteriously absent RSES. Had it been included as promised, the dealership would want $11,750, or almost $8,000 more than we agreed to. The insubstantial and legally dubious"reason" given was that my car depreciated over the preceding 4 months. Maybe it did, but expecting me to believe that the car lost almost eight thousand dollars in only 1/3 of a year borders on the incredible. As an attorney, I am aware that any contract has some leeway in interpretation, but what you propose is far beyond the norm.

More specifically, you told me during our 3/13/06 conversation that the current Galves value was approximately $38,000. I did a quick search myself and its around $38,500, which, again, does not include desirable and expensive options like HID lights, voice control, etc. As you well know, and notwithstanding Galves, these options do indeed positively affect resale value. I still have my Galves report dated 11/1/05. It reflects a then wholesale value for my car exclusive of many of its options like HID lights, voice control, phone, etc of about $41,000. Thus, the net difference between my Galves value in November and the present is at most $2500 ($41,000- $38,500).

Here is the bottom line: Simple arithmetic confirms that you personally offered about $4,946 over Galves ($45,946 - $41,000= $4,946). Asking, much less expecting, me to pay many thousands of dollars beyond what you not only agreed to, but proposed is violative of our agreement. It is also many other things and certainly not good business practice.

In the interests of expedience I MIGHT be willing to consider some adjustment for interim depreciation: According to Galves, since my car has depreciated at most $2,500 over the past 4 months I might be willing to make some sort of adjustment , but would first have to deduct $1,250, such reflecting the invoice cost of the mysteriously absent RSES, for net additional monies due of $1,250. The transaction would thus be as follows: My car plus $4,000 minus $1250 invoice cost for the missing RSES plus an additional amount less than $2500 for accrued depreciation. Even at $2,500 I am suspicious as such presents an excessive annualized rate.

I expected you to honor that which was agreed to and am both puzzled to say the least. And, I expected more from a Lexus dealer. Over the last 15 years or so I've bought at least 10+ cars for family/friends and have never had something like this happen, either privately or professionally.

BobsGX

Lexus of Watertown certainly didn't get very good writeups at dealerrater.com

caha14

I'm amazed at the postings on dealerrater.com... Pretty disappointing. Interestingly, when we bought the GX in 2004 from the Internet Sales Manager (whom I think is still around), we had a great experience in every possible way.

However, I went in late Dec '05 to help a friend who was negotiating a lease on an '06 GX, and they were a pain to deal with. Typical tactics - the salesman going back and forth to the manager (whom I had never met), etc. - and they were about $100-a-month too high on the quote for some time. Eventually, they came down to where they should, and I was happy my friend got a good deal.

The thing is that I walked away with a bad taste in my mouth that it took so long and that I had to show up in the first place to get them to stop BSing her. Again, nothing like when I bought my GX. So, when I'm ready to get another car, I'll still let them quote but I will definitely not put up with even 10% of the nonsense my friend and others at dealerrater have endured. It's unnecessary, and I wonder if it's the reason they are not an "Elite of Lexus" dealer anymore.

JWS3 - You did a fine job in your letter, and I hope they will realize how much goodwill they can destroy if they don't do the right thing. Conversely, they should think of how much better they will look if they come through for you. That's the beauty of CL and the internet as a whole!