ahc21ahc

I'm about to have my first oil change at 5K miles and was wondering if I should request a 5 tire rotation pattern. What's are the advantages and disadantages of doing this? I understand that on a 4WD, if one tire has to be replaced with a new one for some reason, then it may cause transmission damage if the others are not replaced at the same time.

The manual recommends the rotation pattern below. However, this doesn't make sense to me because the left and ride side tires never exchange positions.

CVsIS250

I only change the 4...2 front to 2 back. i kinda like having a spare that is new.

BobsGX

I use one of these 5 wheel rotation diagrams when I rotate the tires. Look near the bottom of the page. Works great for me.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...currentpage=38

loflin

When RADIAL tires first came out many years ago. The manufacturer's direction was to NEVER switch sides (which changes direction of rotation).

Now if you do a search, you will get all kinds of (somewhat conflicting!) information.

Tirerack doesn't mention it at all.

Another site, recommended cross rotations as long as your are rotating often (every 5K miles), but if you don't rotate that often, then do NOT cross rotate radial tires.

A third site, continues to state never cross rotate radials.

Has to do with the physical nature of the radial ply design and the possibility of separating the plys if they get set in one direction and then switched.

One thing most all sites agree on, is to follow your manufacturer's directions.

Personally, I agree with one of the other posters, and do NOT include the full size spare in the rotation. I don't see the point. In theory, the wheels on on side of the car would last 33% longer, but, in reality when the time comes, you will replace all of them. So why pay for 5 instead of 4. Plus if you have a flat on the "wrong" side, then in theory once you fixed it, then you would have to pull the "wrong way" tire and switch with the repair (i.e. one more jacking up the car). Finally, when you go to sell (to private party of course) then you can point out the pristine spare, like it's some kind of selling point!

Josh's GX

Loflin~ Thank you for such a great explanation. You have me sold! I wasn't sure why they wouldn't include the spare in the rotation either, or why the manual says to NOT cross rotate, but know I do...and "knowing is half the battle". A question I have though is; if you have to use the spare tire on one side, then fix the damaged tire and return the spare, what happens if you have to use the spare on the other side? Would there be an issue with the cross rotation?

loflin

Good point, in theory, yes. But again, no one seems to agree on whether cross-rotation is an issue.

I forgot to add, another alternative for the spare, is not use it, then when time comes for new tires, just by 3, and keep 1 old. Then use the spare as the 4th new tire. You save money. Then of course the really old spare would only be used (wait for it, wait for it.......) sparingly!

So in that scenario, you would only use your pristine spare (on either side) just long enough to get the flat tire fixed. Putting a hundred miles in one direction and then the other (if you had the bad luck to have 2 flats in your cars lifetime), wouldn't be a problem.

V8_Fan

I always run a 5-tire rotation when possible, cross rotated as in figure A on the tirerack site with about a 5-7K mi interval. Of course, you can only cross rotate if the treads are non-directional (i.e., performance tires like the ones w/ V-shaped treads are a no-no).

Why do the 5 vs. 4?
1) 20% more mileage per set of tires.
2) Safety. The rubber only lasts about 5-6 years, as tires degrade internally, even if they were never used (moisture in the air inside the tire is a major culprit, then external environmental variables, causing it to get dry, hard, cracked). So even if you never use the spare, you should toss it after 5-6 yrs if you want it to be reliable. Otherwise, you could end up with a tire that blows apart, causing a crash. So if you're going to change the spare every 5-6 yrs anyways, why not use it rather than discard it unused tire? If you plan to keep the spare there as long as possible w/o using it, I'd have it filled w/ nitrogen (green cap).
3) Tread wear on all tires is even. If your current set is near the end of its life, you're on a road trip and get a flat, you'll have to drive with a tire that will be the wrong diameter...BAD!!! Bad on the drivetrain, can also cause steering pull.
4) Different brands of tires have different diameters/weights/rolling friction for the same tire size. This only exacerbates the different diameter problems from tread wear, potential drivetrain problems, and handling problems if you have to use the spare.

Why cross rotate rather than front/back?
The alignment for both sides up front is not the same. There is some additional toe/caster to keep the vehicle tracking straight on roads sloped for drainage. As a result, tire wear isn't the same. The weight on each side is also not exactly the same. Bottom line is, left and right side tires DO NOT wear the same. So if you want even wear, cross rotate if possible.

The drawback? It's a PITA to get the spare out from underneath, plus if you have chromed wheels, you'll have to chrome the spare to match (I just did this on my LX, but have to run a 4-tire rotation since the spare is a different brand and current tires are half worn).

My father had the honda dealer rotate his tires. They only went front to back, 4 wheel rotation. It ended up that after one rotation, the vehicle started pulling hard to one side. Tires were all in balance. I swapped the front tires (same as doing a cross rotation) and all was well.

Bottom line is, if you run a 5-tire cross rotation, you know all your tires are the same age, and have the same wear, handling, and reliability.

The G Man

Personnally, Rotating tires never make any sense to me, unless you do it yourself. The dealer charge $50 per rotation. Say if your tires last 5 years with the rotation, thats $500 you have spend on tire rotation. Lets just say if you didnt rotate them and your tire only last 4 years. Thats a 20% increase in tire life with the rotation. A set of tires is about a $1000, therefore, you have just spend $500 to save $200, just doesnt add up.

ahc21ahc

Thanks everyone. I think I tend to agree with Jim's points, so I will run a 5 tire rotation. Another benefit of using the spare is that you can do the tire rotation yourself and you only need to use the jack in the car. You don't need to buy a separate floor jack and jack stands. I don't plan to do any maintaince that requires me to get under the truck with jack stands so I don't want to buy them just for tire rotations (I don't feel comfortable getting under a 5000 lb truck on jack stands)

V8_Fan

I always do my rotation w/ the truck on stands (6 ton Lincoln stands on the frame rail just behind the front wheels, 3-ton Lincoln stands under the rear axle housing). I use a commercial Lincoln 3-ton floor jack that will lift from 4"-24", so it works with both my sports car and lifted 4Runner. The side benefit is you don't have to jack each wheel up w/ the spare bottle jack (slow), plus you can easily inspect all the brakes/pads and rotor thicknesses. Another nice thing about the 5-tire rotation is you know your spare will likely be the proper pressure or close to it (say you rotate 2x/year). For those of you who never touch the spare, how do you know it even has ample pressure? You have to lower it to inflate it, so you may as well rotate it in. I will typically slightly overinflate the spare by a few pounds, then adjust if necessary. If you have to change the spare and are in the middle of nowhere, you can always let air out easily, but not the opposite.

You don't have to put the LX on stands to change the fluids underneath. Just put the AHC in high and lock it, then the shut engine off. It will stay up unless you have a leak in your AHC or a massive weather front passes through in the time you're under the rig. ;-) It's tight underneath, but manageable. The only thing I found difficult to do is to loosen the front diff fill plug.

Max707

Great point. I always do a 10K mile rotation unless the tires are within 10K of replacement and then I just run them until replacement. Now on my current vehicle within 10K of tire replacement and I am faced with a problem, my spare is "like new" but it will be 4 years old at time of replacement. I could use the "like new" spare and only buy 3 new tires but then 2 years from now 1/2 way through their service life one tire will be 6 years old. So bottomline I will need to buy 4 new tires or 5 new tires.