D4SSWME

anyone here decide to get something else after having the GX-470 for awhile?

for those that gave back their GXs due to the tax implicaton of the weight issue, what vehicle did you get?

modelaford

Waiting to see the changes in the 04.

Cessna172

I hear the VW Touareg is supposed to be pretty good and it has 4 wheel independant suspension and 10 inches of clearance w/ available air on all four corners. Yes it may be based on a uni-frame, however it looks like it will still have the prowlness for the tough off-road stuff based upon what I stated at the top.

I think once it hits the market it is going to give the GX a run for its money. It has many features the GX does not and with a bigger engine and very comparable prices unless you opt for the V-10 Diesel.

I think the GX and the Touareg are the cream of the crop in the 50K range and will be toe to toe. The main difference as far who will buy what will be based on either... customer service, and resale value favoring Lexus (of course I'm not sure about the service part anymore with all the run-around by Lexus with the vibration and the outside temp. sensor issues) and more options/features favoring VW.

Anyway just my .02

brent0226

Our decision was narrowed down to the GX470 and the Touareg. We chose the GX because it offered the third row seat. What is a huge plus for the Touareg is 310hp and a 6 speed Tiptronic transmission. It was such a nice vehicle (12 way power passenger seat with 3 memory!)... however I heard the navigation system SUCKS. My dad, who drove both the V8 Touareg and GX, said that the Touareg was 100x more solid driving than the Lexus. He said it was the best riding car he'd ever driven. And boy was that 6 speed nice

Oh well, we love the Lexus! I'm sure we'll enjoy customer service/dealership experience 100x more than at VW (although our VW dealer is very nice).

BTW here's the forum for Touareg: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=39

Skip

I test drove the Toureg about two hours ago. Do not put it in the same league as the Lexus! The Toureg felt very heavy and clumsey. The seats were terrible. The steering wheel felt like you were driving a bus. When you push on the gas there is a lag before the car moves. The ride isn't too bad but not in the same league as the Lexus. The rear seat is very cramped and you must put the front seats forward, if all the way back, to fold the rear seats. You must also remove the headrest, all three of them ,to fold the seats. The dash board is the most cluttered thing that I have ever seen. You cannot see out the rear view mirror because the three rear headrests block the view out the rear window. It is a shame, but there is not much good that can be said about this car. Last week, I drove a Porsche Cayanne S and it was not much better. Actually it was worse. You could not take off without jerking all over the place. The throttle seems to open about seventy five percent in the first eighth of an inch. The brakes felt like driving a truck with air brakes and it was the worst riding car that I have ever been in, and I drive a Ford Lightning! Any Ford or Chevy is light years ahead of the Porsche or the VW. The level of refinement in a Lexus is unbelieveable compared to these cars. I wanted to like these cars, but it was just impossible! They are just too unrefined. The next time that you are complaning about your Lexus, just go drive one of these and you will never complain about your Lexus again. I have nothing against VW or Porsche, but if this is the best that they can do, maybe they should get out of the car business. Do not take my word for it, go test drive them yourself and I am sure that you will agree! Sorry for being so negative, but I really could not find much good to say about them. Skip

brent0226

Your post made me laugh

Maybe you're just a die hard Lexus fan, but boy, VW nailed the Touareg on the head. It surpasses the Lexus in so many ways it's not even funny. Maybe you just have completely different taste from everyone else.

I don't understand why people say the dashboard is cluttered...? The reason you may say so is because it has so many features. I think the Touareg dash is much nicer looking than the Lexus. The wood trim doesn't go up so high that it reflects the sun into my eyes like the Lexus.

I guess people just aren't ready for a $50k VW. Maybe the world doesn't know, but VW is light years ahead of Toyota/Lexus as far as engineering. Just check out www.germancarfans.com some day and see what they're doing. Just wait till VW drops a 6 speed DSG transmission into the Touareg. Have you seen the V10 TDI?

If I had my choice, a Touareg would be sitting in our driveway right now. But, the Lexus offered the third row seat. Don't get me wrong, I love the Lexus. But I have to admit - our Jetta drives 10x better on the highway than the Lexus. The steering wheel stays dead on center no matter what speed you're going. The Lexus is just a comfortable quiet ride.

Skip

Not a die hard Lexus fan at all. I just thought that they were two of the worst vehicles that I have ever driven. Not trying to offend anyone, but this is my honest feeling. Any car drives better than any truck. The problem is, sometimes we need truck based vehicles to do certain jobs. Skip

brent0226

I understand. I just think it's funny how my dad had the exact opposite reaction as you.

"sometimes we need truck based vehicles to do certain jobs" - there is nothing the Lexus can do that the VW can't. It's a proven offroader that is compared to both the G-class and Range Rover. I encourage you to check out Car and Driver's 2003 issue that compares the Lexus to the Touareg.

The 4 corner air suspension makes the car so much more versatile. Every measurable capability is in favor of the Touareg - approach angles, breakover angles, etc.

Check out these offroad pics:
Here

Skip

I agree, I think that the VW would do better in heavy duty off roading. In Southern California most off roading is just driving up fire roads that you could probably do with a Caddy. The cars that I drove did not have air suspension. I consider both the Lexus and the VW-Porsche to be trucks as the VW weighs close to 5500 pounds ready to go. If I really wanted to go off roading ,I would buy an old Jeep or a Landcruiser. These new vehicles are just too expensive to scratch up or tear up. Dirt bikes are fun too !! In Los Angeles, you have to go about 100 miles to be able to do anything. Just houses, concrete and people, everywhere. Way too many cars also. Everyone around here puts 22" chromed wheels with low profile tires on their Land Rovers. Unreal !. Skip

brent0226

What's the deal with 22" chromed wheels? I like the way most cars look from the factory. Oh well

Our Lexus will probably never see offroading either We may pull our boat with it though. My dad can't figure out the brake light harness though. He says it's not the standard plug. The dealer said they didn't know...

tetra7

I also have to disagree with you Brent0226. I test drove the Touareg as well, and the only thing going for it is the car-like ride. However, this should not be a surprise since it is built on a car-chassis --- hence the term cross-over. The engine in the Lexus is actually larger 4.7 versus the 4.4. The Touareg engine uses the old engine from the A8; however, look at the powerband curves for peak hp and torque. In short, you have to wind the VW up to get it to perform (that is why you feel a little lag at take-off).

If you want to do head-to-head comparisons on the off-road abilities of the 2 vehicles, I would choose the Lexus hands down. The VW uses clutch-based systems to drive the power to the wheels...this is not a bad thing. However, the Lexus uses a torsen-differential to drive the power fore and aft. Traditionally gear-based systems are faster reacting, more reliable and require less maintenance. If you want to break it down, the Range Rover which is considered to be one of the most capable vehicles in the world uses the same technology found on-board the Lexus: Torsen differential, downhill assist, uphill assist, use of abs breaks to modulate power (side-to-side) and several others that allude my brain this morning.

Anyway, I'm rambling here...the VW is nice..but they are in two different categories: Truck and Cross-Over. You are making an apples to oranges comparison.

brent0226

First of all, the Touareg's engine is 4.2l, not 4.4. It has 302 lb-ft of torque, which is not too much less than the Lexus, and peaks much lower (3000 RPM versus 3400 RPM). Because it has a 6 speed automatic, it seems like you have to wind it up, since you are in each gear for a shorter amount of time.

You're right, it's not torsen. However, VW's other cars (4motion Passat, Phaeton, and Audis) use torsen, and they found a better setup in the Touareg. In addition, if you opt to get the read differential lock, the system can transmit 100% engine torque to any one wheel. It has downhill assist, uphill assist, ESP, and eletronic brake force distribution (if that's what you say the "side-to-side" is, though it really is front-to-back).

I just don't understand why people say things like they're apples to oranges because the Touareg is a "car." This "car" can pull 2700 more lbs than the GX, can ford much higher water (11.8in vs. 8.3in), can do way more offroading, and, is heavier, and faster!

Cessna172

Well that is where I think you are getting your opinion about the ride difference. I think if you drove one with air at all four corners, your impression would be different, at least with the ride quailty.

brent0226

And the VW with the air suspension package is cheaper than the Lexus.

Cessna172

On a side note. What do you bet that the VW doesn't have outside temp. reading problems or vibration issues.

I know that is a cheap shot, but come on Lexus. According to Lexus the temp. issue is a software issue, I mean how long, really, does it take to change a damn software program. I have been hearing that line for 3 months now. I had before this a 01 Corvette, and a 00' Dakota and both their readings were spot on. I don't think it really needs to take almost a whole model year to fix something so minor, but so major if you use the feature.