tigmd99

Well, how about the Mercedes G500 (aka G-wagen)??

spwolf

I sell T's in Europe... I have Prado and LC100(LX) next to each other... LC100 here costs 35% more and is lesser car in every extent possible. I am not saying it is bad, but compared to Prado/GX, it is not as good. Materials used, perception of quality, refinement, NVH, and even 4x4 drive are better in GX. Simply the luxury of 5 year newer car.

tigmd99

Hmm, in what way?? Please don't tell me Torsen center diff because that has NO bearing on off-road ability. HAC and DAC are all techniques that any seasoned off-roader can do. It's good for beginners i will give you that.

Look at the underbelly of both SUVs and you will see a BIG difference! The LX underbelly is ultra- clean...no low hanging stuff to drag over a rock...now look under the Prado/GX and you will see fuel tank, steering mechanism, etc. all hanging below frame. The LX rack-and-pinion steering is tuck up into the body to avoid damage (similar to Range Rover's)...you won't find this much on any SUV with rack-and-pinion steering.

If you measure the RTI (ramp travel index--measures suspension travel/flex) of both, then you will see that the LX (TLC100) is far superior to the GX/Prado. Only the GX470 with KDSS will come close to the LX's suspension flex. And for a vehicle based on traction control, suspension flex is very important.

Angles...well, the LX loses to GX in departure angle...that's about it. The approach angle and breakover angles are slightly better than GX.

Now, don't get me wrong, GX is very good in off-roading...but a new design does not always mean better. The LX/TLC100 was built to represent Toyota's ultimate SUV back in 1998...a vehicle that is built to excell on and off the road.

As far as reviews are concerned, the LX is the quietest SUV on the planet...a tie with the Range Rover. The GX is good, but is not as quiet. And according to one review (Edmunds), the LX older Mark Levinson system is slightly better than the GX's.

et415

How close are the Prado and the GX? Looking at some Prado websites, they look similar, but not identical. The Prado seems to be significantly cheaper and doesn't come with a V8. Other than some offroading technology, do they have similar levels of luxury features, sound deadening, suspension tuning, etc.? Obviously if the GX is V8 only and Prado is 4 or 6 cylinder only, they don't really seem that comparable since the engine is so related to performance, NVH, handling balance, etc.

et415

I don't know the G500 very well at all. I live in Hollywood, and I don't see many. When I think G500, I think of a Hummer-class vehicle (more military than traditional luxury SUV). Do people who live in the desert and/or drivers who do lots of offroading buy a lot of them?

tigmd99

Really?? A lot of celebrities drive the G-wagen, including Brad Pitt and sadly Britney Spears.

The only thing holding back off-roaders from buying the G-wagen is cost. It is a military vehicle...therefore, it is made to military specs (like Hummer H1). The metal skin is thicker than regular production cars/SUVs. The running gears are higher grade. The frame on the G-wagen is quite impressive if you every take a chance to look at it.

For off-roading capability, there's very little competition to the G-wagen. Hummer H1 and Wrangler Rubicon are about the only competition. As you may know, the G-wagen comes standard with front and rear gear-based lockers (along with a locking center diff). It's not the sissy clutch-based locker that you see on Hummer H2 or Touareg. If you talk to a seasoned off-roader, lockers rule in off-roading. To many, having lockers is the equivalent of having a winch. Of course, having both is preferred.

et415

I just looked up the G-wagen on Edmunds (it was down last night when I checked) and its summary is: "Although extremely capable in the wild, its primitive nature on the street makes it more of a high-priced novelty than a true luxury SUV." ...which is why it probably isn't included in luxury SUV comparos.

Edmunds goes on to say "But the Land Rover Range Rover and Lexus LX 470 are nearly as capable off-road and provide truly luxurious accommodations inside and composed handling on pavement as well."

(I keep on editing this message and adding stuff...) Edmunds actually had a comparo including the G-wagen, and the G-wagen came in 4th out of 5 (ahead of H2, behind Escalade, LX 470, and Navigator).

tigmd99

Well, they rank the Caddy Escalade ahead of LX...does that mean that it's better than LX?? It all depends on the reviewer. I would bet that FourWheeler will have the order of winners different. The G-wagen is definitely rawer than an LX, Range Rover, etc.. But, in terms of off-roading with decent on-road manners, the G-wagen will be near the top (if not the top). You will need to off-road enough to realize the importance of lockers. I have ATRAC (4-wheel traction control) on the G-wagen also (when lockers are not locked). In my recent off-roading trip to CO, lockers made a huge difference over severe rocky terrain.

If the Hummer H1 was in that comparo, then i would bet that it would rank dead last according to Edmunds...but does that mean anything?? Can a Caddy Escalade do 70% of the off-roading of a H1 or G500?? Probably. But, how about the other 30%?? Only an off-roader will get to that 30%...will an Edmunds editor give a crap about the 30%?? Probably not.

Now, a FourWheeler (or whatever off-roading mag) editor will feel much differently. Like i said, in terms of an off-roading luxury SUV, the G-wagen should be up there. It all depends on how much or little luxury you want.

et415

Have you seen the new G-wagen? There's a spy pic at http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=178&n=158

What do you think? I think it's a shame that the industrial, hard-core look of the G-wagen is gone...it now looks like a big M-Class. Looks-wise, it looks like M-B is making the G-wagen more like an LX or RR.

tigmd99

There's not much to say about it...it's a big disappointment IMO. MB is making it into a bigger brother to ML...same damn platform.

The only good thing is that the current G-wagen will continue to be built for military service only. So, parts will still be around until at least 2025 (length of military contract). It's just that there will be less of G-wagens around for civilians to see, which is not a bad thing in my book.

sickman

That new G-Class looks a bit like Pacifica to me.