Hi,
I hope you are doing well. Please post the link for the frame only picture. Thanks, DR Balzer

 

I don't know that I agree with that. The trend towards unibody construction started before gas prices rose. In any event...nobody would call the LR4 or the Grand Cherokee gas sipping vehicles. Mine's the V6 and it gets terrible mileage.

Do you have some source that shows that unibody vehicles with high tow ratings suffer some sort of structural fatigue over time? I remember people lamenting the loss of BOF sedans like the Crown Vic for police work and limousine work...I see plenty of unibody police cars and limos. Its just bias against whats new.

I'm a member on a big Jeep forum and PLENTY of JGC owners tow huge boats and things and are very happy with their Jeeps. You should see what some people do to them offroad, even new ones, and what kind of lifted trail rigs people have turned the old (also unibody, the JGC has always been unibody) Grand Cherokees into. You're assertion that a unibody vehicle cannot last when used ruggedly offroad and for towing is just false.

 

How can one expect a vehicle to meet everyone's needs and desires? Just buy what best fits your needs, desires and pockets! I am getting mine to drive on the road 99.9% of the time, not off road! For that, I would buy an old Jeep instead of abusing my "expensive" ride.

 

Exactly...I like knowing that I can go almost anywhere in the Jeep, but in reality its seen some offroad trails here and there, and snow, etc. I'd be just fine in a crossover.

 

They aren't capable. H1 Hummers are a maintenance nightmare in the military and they are a maintenance nightmare for the owners of civilian versions. Just look at all the maintenance issues in the first few pages compared to mod or general related questions on their forum:

http://www.hummerforums.com/forum/hummer-h1-16/

Give this version of the JGC a decade and let's see how many of them are still active on the road. Same for Land Rover.

 

LOL, okay whatever. The GX is the only remaining capable vehicle. If you want to believe that, Godspeed.

Not capable:



Not capable:



Seeing that the JGC has always been unibody, and there are tons of them on the road that are quite old being used offroad extensively I'm sure plenty of them will be active on the road. I see tons of older Grand Cherokees every day, and from a quality standpoint those old WKs and WJs are nowhere near as well made as the new ones.

If you're saying the GX will age better and be more reliable, theres no doubt in my mind that will be true. BUT, the reason for that is not because its BOF...its that Toyota/Lexus makes a more reliable product overall.

 

How does a single picture prove anything?

Let's see Jeep doing something like this:
Or Range Rovers for that matter... The problem is to finish first they'll first have to finish lol

If unibody were as capable they would be selling well all over the world. But they don't. People in the parts of the world where durability and dependability matters do not drive unibody, period.

 

There are videos all over YouTube of the Jeep and Land Rover performing incredible things off-road. Google provides plenty of pictures too. If you legitimately are incredulous at the suggestion that a Land rover is capable off-road...you must be living under a rock. Land rover has a well deserved reputation for being very capable off-road.

None of us are going to do any of these things in our new $50k SUVs., my point is that a unibody chassis certainly does not mean a vehicle is not capable off-road.

In any event..if you want a BOF SUV, you better move to one of those other countries because they are DOA here.

 

I think you are missing the point. Just because you can go off road once doesn't mean the vehicle is capable of continuously sustaining that type of use. And if you believe they are - show us something real to back it up. Like winning the Paris Dakar. Or even finishing without falling apart. Where are the unibody Jeeps winning or even participating in the world's toughest competitions if they are capable?

I'll tell you one story. In mid last century ford tried to produce unibody pickups. Google it and see how what Ford claimed end up versus the reality. Quite an entertaining reading. Granted the technology is no longer comparable but Ford aren't making unibody pickups up to this day. I guess they learned the lesson and technology is still not there?

Heck, even Jeep themselves agree with me:

"The Wrangler’s body-on-frame construction is fully boxed for added strength, stiffness and durability."

That' directly from the Jeep's website on 2013 Wrangler.

 

First of all...saying your GX is more capable because Toyota wins the Paris Dakar is like saying your Camry is a great sports car because they compete in Nascar. The vehicles have about as much in common with street versions.

The proof that these vehicles are very capable offroad is all over the place. Visit www.jeepgarage.com and flip through the threads. There are tons of old WJs and such that have been modified, lifted, etc and are used extensively offroad and have been for years.



Skip to 49 seconds and watch from there:


Skip to 1:19:


This is a Range Rover Sport, on street tires:


Another stock RR Sport on street tires:


Another:


Stock Grand Cherokee:


VERY capable vehicles.

A MT offroad comparison of the Benz GL, the GX and the Land Rover LR4:


Winner? Land Rover. Quoted: "This one was an easy call"; "Offroad prowess? Easily the best"; "This is the one all the drivers fought to drive"

As for pickups, the demand and stresses on a pickup from a load carrying perspective are different. Will there come a day when we will see unibody pickups? Probably.

In any event, none of us are entering our $50k+ SUVs in a road rally, or rock crawling, or mudding most likely.

 

Again, show us something real. Just because a guy crawled over a rock in his backyard or claimed a hill once does not prove anything about long term vehicle durability. The point about Dakar is it puts enough abuse on the car that if it survives the entire rally that does tell you something about how well the car is put together. Sure, show us some none-stock unibody Jeeps doing it. Where are they? And you seems to be completely ignoring that in other parts of the world people drive BOF vehicles where durability and dependability is required. The US is simply a consequence of rising gas prices and government mpg mandates, not superior vehicles.

Take middle east - gas prices a non-issue, vehicle capabilities are paramount. Curious why nobody cares about unibody crossovers there if they are as capable?

 

Or another example - there is a guy over at ih8mud who crossed Africa on his land cruiser. Did anyone dare to do something similar in a unibody Jeep? Guess not? Sure if something goes wrong you just call a tow truck, right?

 

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/7284366-post27.html

Koz

 

http://jalopnik.com/5958901/the-ten-...ring-the-world

Koz

 

my corolla is very capable off road too! can i bring that in the comparison