Body on Frame vs. Unibody Discussion Continued
10-14-13, 09:56 AM
#166
Lexus Fanatic
I passed on the Rover trip to go on a shooting trip where I was able to shoot several guns I plan on purchasing. Other than a Rover fan bragging about how superior the Rover is, I really didn't see any reason to go through all the trouble of taking the boards off and back on. I know exactly how capable the GX is from several prior off-road trips. I know that the 460 is as capable off-road as any other SUV in its class (and better than most). Sorry guys but I am retiring this year (early retirement) and I have planned to really exploit the GX's capabilities. My first trip will entail towing my mobile luxury apartment (RV) around the country. The destinations I plan on visiting are all locations where I will park my RV and take the GX on daily off-road excursions. Needless to say I will be doing a lot of detailed postings with pics.
Koz
Koz
I think what people need to keep in mind is that off road dimensions play a bigger factor in the vehicle capability than whether it has a frame or unibody. Engine choices not so much but being able to carry cargo off road is also important.
The Land Rover Discovery is probably a better off road vehicle than the GX460, just looking at the dimensions, the Land Rover wins. But, when you look at the credentials of the 4Runner Trail, the 4Runner trail will give the Land Rover a run for its money as off-road credentials are similar. Ground clearance, approach and departure angles are sadly not the greatest on the GX. So to me it really makes no difference if it is body on frame or unibody or not.
10-14-13, 11:09 AM
#167
Driver School Candidate
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Both the Range Rover/Land Rover and the GX are excellent vehicles for off-road. You can't go wrong with either model. I personally like body on frame trucks more than anything else and I would take a body on frame truck over a body on frame SUV over a unibody SUV.
I think what people need to keep in mind is that off road dimensions play a bigger factor in the vehicle capability than whether it has a frame or unibody. Engine choices not so much but being able to carry cargo off road is also important.
The Land Rover Discovery is probably a better off road vehicle than the GX460, just looking at the dimensions, the Land Rover wins. But, when you look at the credentials of the 4Runner Trail, the 4Runner trail will give the Land Rover a run for its money as off-road credentials are similar. Ground clearance, approach and departure angles are sadly not the greatest on the GX. So to me it really makes no difference if it is body on frame or unibody or not.
I think what people need to keep in mind is that off road dimensions play a bigger factor in the vehicle capability than whether it has a frame or unibody. Engine choices not so much but being able to carry cargo off road is also important.
The Land Rover Discovery is probably a better off road vehicle than the GX460, just looking at the dimensions, the Land Rover wins. But, when you look at the credentials of the 4Runner Trail, the 4Runner trail will give the Land Rover a run for its money as off-road credentials are similar. Ground clearance, approach and departure angles are sadly not the greatest on the GX. So to me it really makes no difference if it is body on frame or unibody or not.
! Let's chill out...
10-14-13, 01:28 PM
#168
Lexus Fanatic
I know this is the GX section, but it is pretty cool that Toyota mentions body on frame structure in the videos and marketing material for the 2014. I am glad Toyota is not trying hide the fact that the 4Runner is BOF.
10-16-13, 02:03 AM
#169
Racer
another curious fact...lexus now advertising the gx on tv...saw one commercial a week or so back with fb game.
seems like they really want to ramp up production and sell more of these.
why would they do that now if they plan on discontinuing later as some here speculated..that crossover concept is junk compared to bof
seems like they really want to ramp up production and sell more of these.
why would they do that now if they plan on discontinuing later as some here speculated..that crossover concept is junk compared to bof
10-16-13, 07:33 AM
#170
Lexus Fanatic
another curious fact...lexus now advertising the gx on tv...saw one commercial a week or so back with fb game.
seems like they really want to ramp up production and sell more of these.
why would they do that now if they plan on discontinuing later as some here speculated..that crossover concept is junk compared to bof
seems like they really want to ramp up production and sell more of these.
why would they do that now if they plan on discontinuing later as some here speculated..that crossover concept is junk compared to bof
And plans come and go, they have a model now and they are going to do their best to sell what they have. 2016 is a long way off.
10-16-13, 09:19 PM
#171
Lexus Fanatic
another curious fact...lexus now advertising the gx on tv...saw one commercial a week or so back with fb game.
seems like th CDey really want to ramp up production and sell more of these.
why would they do that now if they plan on discontinuing later as some here speculated..that crossover concept is junk compared to bof
seems like th CDey really want to ramp up production and sell more of these.
why would they do that now if they plan on discontinuing later as some here speculated..that crossover concept is junk compared to bof
A good question will be is whether or not the GX and 4Runner seperate from their designs. My hunch is that they will.
I will predict that the GX will be GL sized SUV made for the north american market, I also predict that it will share the foundation with the next Sequoia that will be GL sized. That will leave the Land Cruiser as the large SUV.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-16-13 at 09:24 PM.
10-18-13, 06:20 AM
#172
Racer
GX is not going to be discontinued, eventually it will have to move to a unibody design to be competitive with the other makes on this class. It will also need to offer up some type of V6 that is not truck based.
A good question will be is whether or not the GX and 4Runner seperate from their designs. My hunch is that they will.
I will predict that the GX will be GL sized SUV made for the north american market, I also predict that it will share the foundation with the next Sequoia that will be GL sized. That will leave the Land Cruiser as the large SUV.
A good question will be is whether or not the GX and 4Runner seperate from their designs. My hunch is that they will.
I will predict that the GX will be GL sized SUV made for the north american market, I also predict that it will share the foundation with the next Sequoia that will be GL sized. That will leave the Land Cruiser as the large SUV.
i dont like the concept crossover if thats whats coming for the gx..
what will they do with RX...no one here mentioned that...
RX will likely be 3 row unibody design.
probably has 2 years left in current cycle.
i doubt they will just let gx go.
if you apply all reasoning here for that, then it makes no sense why they keeping making the LX, yet they still do.
10-18-13, 06:36 PM
#173
Lexus Fanatic
unibody design, uhh...why...just buy a car..
i dont like the concept crossover if thats whats coming for the gx..
what will they do with RX...no one e mentioned that...
RX will likely be 3 row unibody design.
probably has 2 years left in current cycle.
i doubt they will just let gx go.
if you apply all reasoning here for that, then it makes no sense why they keeping making the LX, yet they still do.
i dont like the concept crossover if thats whats coming for the gx..
what will they do with RX...no one e mentioned that...
RX will likely be 3 row unibody design.
probably has 2 years left in current cycle.
i doubt they will just let gx go.
if you apply all reasoning here for that, then it makes no sense why they keeping making the LX, yet they still do.
Historically the LX is in its own segment or class. It does not really have a true competitor as it was designed for a special type of buyer, the Land Cruiser even more so The Escalade, Range Rover, QX are all going after a different buyer than the LX, a Sequioa based Lexus would go netter head to head with Escalade and QX.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-18-13 at 06:45 PM.
10-21-13, 10:31 AM
#174
Lexus Fanatic
An example of a crossover would be the RX, Ford Explorer, Chevy Equinox, Cadillac SRX, Acura MDX, Jeep Cherokee...these vehicles are based off of FWD sedan platforms.
Moving the GX to a unibody platform doesn't necessarily mean that it will become a crossover.
what will they do with RX...no one here mentioned that...
RX will likely be 3 row unibody design.
RX will likely be 3 row unibody design.
10-23-13, 01:24 PM
#176
Lexus Fanatic
Thats your own bias showing. The industry classifies a "crossover" as a specific type of vehicle.
Incorrect. Range Rovers are unibody, have been since 2002. The Land Rover LR4 is a hybrid monocoque/frame vehicle (meaning its partly unibody, partly frame). In fact, the all new Range Rover features the worlds first all aluminum unibody structure in an SUV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_Rover_(L322)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_Rover_(L405)
The first gen RR Sport was a monocoque/frame hybrid like the LR4:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_Rover_Sport
All nre RR Sport is all aluminum unibody, the upcoming replacement for the LR4 will be on the same platform, as will the next generation Defender. The Defender, if you don't know is the classic Land Rover...and its going unibody.
An article about Range Rover's shift to unibody frames:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/land-ro...coming-models/
RR is separate from all others you listed. it is a body frame design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_Rover_(L322)
The design has a monocoque (unibody) construction with four-wheel independent air suspension
The platform is an all-aluminium monocoque structure which is a first for a SUV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_Rover_Sport
All nre RR Sport is all aluminum unibody, the upcoming replacement for the LR4 will be on the same platform, as will the next generation Defender. The Defender, if you don't know is the classic Land Rover...and its going unibody.
An article about Range Rover's shift to unibody frames:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/land-ro...coming-models/
Up until recently, the brand used four different platforms: the Ford-derived EUCD platform for the Land Rover LR2 and the Range Rover Evoque; a standalone platform for the ancient Defender; an integrated body-on-frame platform for the LR4 and the Range Rover Sport; and a standalone platform derived from the first-generation BMW X5 for the now defunct, third-gen Range Rover. In the near future, Land Rover will keep the Evoque and the LR2 on their current platforms; every other model will use a variations of the new, lightweight D7 platform launched with the new Range Rover.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-23-13 at 01:33 PM.
11-11-13, 03:49 PM
#177
Looks like folks from club-lexus.ru did a very nice trip to Africa. There is a first video showcasing the series with lots of Prado 150 footage. Take this -- they even had one Range Rover with them. Guess which car did not make it? You bet! RR was called "the biggest mistake of the expedition", the entire column had to stop 7 times due to RR technical issues before it eventually broke down completely and couldn't continue. As they said ~ "the RR was written-off as junk".
Last edited by Quadro; 11-11-13 at 03:52 PM.
11-11-13, 04:18 PM
#178
Lexus Fanatic
I haven't watched it, but I will this evening when I have time. BUT, again technical issues don't have anything to do with BOF vs unibody construction. We're not comparing the reliability of the two vehicles, we're talking about the capabilities of their platforms.
11-11-13, 04:32 PM
#179
You're right the technical issues might have nothing to do with unibody vs BOF. The point, however, is it's the real world that is the ultimate test for vehicles capabilities and it seems RR doesn't know how to put a proper off-road vehicle together so their choice or claims for unibody construction may not bear much credit either.
You said yourself your GC is having technical issues and that's without even you wheeling it hard. Now realize it'll be 10x worse if you were really wheelin it so all Jeep claims about GC being a viable off-road machine are bogus too?
11-11-13, 04:35 PM
#180
Driver
Thread Starter
Doesn't capability and reliability go hand in hand? For example, a vehicle is capable of crossing treacherous African conditions, but it breaks down several times in the process going through such conditions? I'd rather have a vehicle that's both capable and reliable.