Body on Frame vs. Unibody Discussion Continued
10-07-13, 09:55 AM
#106
Driver
Thread Starter
Actually I almost forgot!
There is a GX400.....which is exactly what is sounds like, a GX with the trusty, ubiquitous 4.0L V6 and 5-speed A750F automatic transmission.
Give the page some time to load, it is slow.
http://www.lexus.com.cn/en/GX400/default.html
I think if Toyota/Lexus thinks the 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto are good enough for the GX, Prado, and big-daddy Land Cruiser, it's good enough for anything else they choose to put it in, including the 4Runner. The 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto have been around for a long time and are proven in harsh environments.
I test-drove a 2014 4Runner Limited this weekend and was impressed, I liked it a lot, but the seat comfort was disappointing. The 4Runner drove nice and is nicely packaged (I liked the overhead console and the factory-standard integrated hitch). The X-REAS chassis seemed good. But the GX460 has much better seats, materials, and is quieter. So now my decision is even harder, 2014 4Runner Limited vs GX460. Do I want to spend the extra $11k.
There is a GX400.....which is exactly what is sounds like, a GX with the trusty, ubiquitous 4.0L V6 and 5-speed A750F automatic transmission.
Give the page some time to load, it is slow.
http://www.lexus.com.cn/en/GX400/default.html
I think if Toyota/Lexus thinks the 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto are good enough for the GX, Prado, and big-daddy Land Cruiser, it's good enough for anything else they choose to put it in, including the 4Runner. The 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto have been around for a long time and are proven in harsh environments.
I test-drove a 2014 4Runner Limited this weekend and was impressed, I liked it a lot, but the seat comfort was disappointing. The 4Runner drove nice and is nicely packaged (I liked the overhead console and the factory-standard integrated hitch). The X-REAS chassis seemed good. But the GX460 has much better seats, materials, and is quieter. So now my decision is even harder, 2014 4Runner Limited vs GX460. Do I want to spend the extra $11k.
I have a 4th generation 4Runner V6 and 2007 FJ Cruiser that share the same engine. I got the 4Runner when I was single, and the FJ when my wife was my girlfriend at the time. Now I have a family with 2 kids and need the GX's V8 for towing for camping trips when I get one. The 4Runner is a good option if you don't plan to tow anything, but if you do, I would go for the GX460.
10-07-13, 10:13 AM
#107
Driver
Thread Starter
The whole purpose of those tests were to try and crash a low vehicle into the Jeep at really high rates of speed to test if the fuel tank would explode. That GC is also three generations old at this point.
Here's a picture of a Unibody Highlander being rear ended and displaying the same damage to the rear ending car and lack of damage to the Highlander you guys have attributed to "BOF strength"
Again...who cares about it being drivable if you or your family are hurt or killed?
You don't want a vehicle to roll over.
Here's a picture of a Unibody Highlander being rear ended and displaying the same damage to the rear ending car and lack of damage to the Highlander you guys have attributed to "BOF strength"
Again...who cares about it being drivable if you or your family are hurt or killed?
You don't want a vehicle to roll over.
As for that Highlander that was rear-ended in the photo, the car that rear-ended it was lower, newer, and had better-ish crumple zones. More damage could been done to the Highlander if it was rear-ended by a BoF vehicle.
10-07-13, 10:21 AM
#108
Actually I almost forgot!
There is a GX400.....which is exactly what is sounds like, a GX with the trusty, ubiquitous 4.0L V6 and 5-speed A750F automatic transmission.
Give the page some time to load, it is slow.
http://www.lexus.com.cn/en/GX400/default.html
I think if Toyota/Lexus thinks the 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto are good enough for the GX, Prado, and big-daddy Land Cruiser, it's good enough for anything else they choose to put it in, including the 4Runner. The 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto have been around for a long time and are proven in harsh environments.
I test-drove a 2014 4Runner Limited this weekend and was impressed, I liked it a lot, but the seat comfort was disappointing. The 4Runner drove nice and is nicely packaged (I liked the overhead console and the factory-standard integrated hitch). The X-REAS chassis seemed good. But the GX460 has much better seats, materials, and is quieter. So now my decision is even harder, 2014 4Runner Limited vs GX460. Do I want to spend the extra $11k.
There is a GX400.....which is exactly what is sounds like, a GX with the trusty, ubiquitous 4.0L V6 and 5-speed A750F automatic transmission.
Give the page some time to load, it is slow.
http://www.lexus.com.cn/en/GX400/default.html
I think if Toyota/Lexus thinks the 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto are good enough for the GX, Prado, and big-daddy Land Cruiser, it's good enough for anything else they choose to put it in, including the 4Runner. The 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto have been around for a long time and are proven in harsh environments.
I test-drove a 2014 4Runner Limited this weekend and was impressed, I liked it a lot, but the seat comfort was disappointing. The 4Runner drove nice and is nicely packaged (I liked the overhead console and the factory-standard integrated hitch). The X-REAS chassis seemed good. But the GX460 has much better seats, materials, and is quieter. So now my decision is even harder, 2014 4Runner Limited vs GX460. Do I want to spend the extra $11k.
Koz
10-07-13, 10:25 AM
#109
Actually I almost forgot!
There is a GX400.....which is exactly what is sounds like, a GX with the trusty, ubiquitous 4.0L V6 and 5-speed A750F automatic transmission.
Give the page some time to load, it is slow.
http://www.lexus.com.cn/en/GX400/default.html
There is a GX400.....which is exactly what is sounds like, a GX with the trusty, ubiquitous 4.0L V6 and 5-speed A750F automatic transmission.
Give the page some time to load, it is slow.
http://www.lexus.com.cn/en/GX400/default.html
http://www.toyota.com.au/prado/specifications/zr
Koz
10-07-13, 10:27 AM
#110
I think if Toyota/Lexus thinks the 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto are good enough for the GX, Prado, and big-daddy Land Cruiser, it's good enough for anything else they choose to put it in, including the 4Runner. The 4.0L V6 and 5-speed auto have been around for a long time and are proven in harsh environments.
10-07-13, 10:33 AM
#111
10-07-13, 10:43 AM
#112
Driver
Thread Starter
10-07-13, 10:43 AM
#113
I agree. I think 2.7L Prado / 4.0L Land Cruiser are created for a very specific market niche - bare bone vehicles with very aggressive cost targets. In the US they only sell Land Cruiser with 5.7L petrol.
10-07-13, 10:47 AM
#114
I agree, this is sick... the only downside is it costs as much as a "proper" one.
10-07-13, 11:30 AM
#115
Lexus Champion
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As of now I do not plan to tow anything with either the 4Runner or GX460, but rather a hitch for bikes to take to trails/mountains.
Last edited by SecPole14; 10-07-13 at 11:38 AM.
10-07-13, 11:55 AM
#116
Lexus Fanatic
A vehicle falling on its side is probably not going to kill my family. A unibody disintegrating like paper from being rear-ended from an older car will probably kill my family. I will give you that unibodys are built a little better from previous generations, but I don't see them being as rugged or reliable as BoF's.
http://www.e-z.net/~ts/web-6-1-06/~d...Accidents3.pdf
When a vehicle rolls over a whole set of new dangers come into place, contact with the ground, crushing, neck injury, ejection. You don't want your vehicle to roll over.
Again remember, being rugged is not necessarily a good thing in an accident. Crash forces have to go somewhere. If the vehicle doesn't deform, the occupants of that vehicle are absorbing the crash forces. This is not an assumption, its physics.
Here's an Explorer (BOF) rear ended, you can see the rear of the vehicle collapsed as well
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-07-13 at 12:05 PM.
10-07-13, 03:10 PM
#117
Lexus Fanatic
Found a couple articles that are pretty relevant to the discussion:
Number one is this one which quotes Toyota USA's president, and features a big ol picture of the GX on the front page:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...usa-president/
So that there tells you where Toyota is going in the US, I'm more sure than ever the GX's days are numbered.
Interesting article about BOF vs unibody as pertains to safety (strikes me as a pretty balanced evaluation)
http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/...feature22.html
Number one is this one which quotes Toyota USA's president, and features a big ol picture of the GX on the front page:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...usa-president/
Not according to Toyota USA President Jim Lentz who made the bold prediction that ”By 2025, I think one can assume that most of the frame-based vehicles will be gone.”
Lentz made the remarks while discussing the future of Lexus and their SUV lineup. Lexus currently markets two frame-based trucks, the GX460 (aka the Toyota Prado) and the Lexus LX570 (based on the Toyota Land Cruiser 200). Those models may be popular with U.N peacekeepers in world markets, but Lentz feels that car based SUVs can handle the towing requirements that have traditionally been an advantage for truck-based SUVs, without the weight or efficiency drawbacks.
Lentz isn’t alone, with Nissan and Ford shifting their Pathfinder and Explorer models to unibody construction. Sales of the Explorer have doubled since the redesign, even with an outcry from the automotive press. Chevrolet won’t be bringing their truck-based Trailblazer to North America either, since the Traverse and Equinox have been judged to do the job adequately
Interesting article about BOF vs unibody as pertains to safety (strikes me as a pretty balanced evaluation)
http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/...feature22.html
10-07-13, 04:20 PM
#118
Who knows what will happen by 2025, for now Toyota does not abandon body-on-frame SUVs.
Despite some overlap in size among the 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Sequoia and Land Cruiser, the truck-based SUVs have distinct buyer bases that warrant keeping them in the lineup, said Motoharu Araya, executive chief engineer for Toyota's global truck and SUV lines.
Araya declined to give specifics, but he said Toyota is "still go" in terms of consumer demand for continuing a full, truck-based SUV lineup.
"There are multiple customers for us," Araya said at a press event here. "Some want to drive off-road, some want to tow with their families, and some want to commute. Towing and durability are very difficult with a monocoque vehicle."
Araya declined to give specifics, but he said Toyota is "still go" in terms of consumer demand for continuing a full, truck-based SUV lineup.
"There are multiple customers for us," Araya said at a press event here. "Some want to drive off-road, some want to tow with their families, and some want to commute. Towing and durability are very difficult with a monocoque vehicle."
10-07-13, 08:22 PM
#119
Lexus Fanatic
Its all about sales, if they can build these vehicles and make money...they will. For instance, I don't see Toyota abandoning the full sized truck market with a BOF pickup. We will probably still likely see the Sequoia since its derived from the Tundra and directly competes with the Tahoes and Expeditions, but vehicles like the GX...its really the odd man out in its class being BOF, I don't see that continuing. I suppose we will see in 2016...
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-07-13 at 08:27 PM.
10-07-13, 08:30 PM
#120
Lexus Fanatic
Not a surprising statement from the executive chief engineer of Toyota's global truck and SUV lines. Again, I'm not talking about elsewhere in the world, I'm talking about the US. A distinct consumer base sure, but it is shrinking, and the man in charge has told us what his thoughts are about the future for the industry and his company when it comes to BOF vehicles in the US.
Its all about sales, if they can build these vehicles and make money...they will. For instance, I don't see Toyota abandoning the full sized truck market with a BOF pickup. We will probably still likely see the Sequoia since its derived from the Tundra and directly competes with the Tahoes and Expeditions, but vehicles like the GX...its really the odd man out in its class being BOF, I don't see that continuing. I suppose we will see in 2016...
Its all about sales, if they can build these vehicles and make money...they will. For instance, I don't see Toyota abandoning the full sized truck market with a BOF pickup. We will probably still likely see the Sequoia since its derived from the Tundra and directly competes with the Tahoes and Expeditions, but vehicles like the GX...its really the odd man out in its class being BOF, I don't see that continuing. I suppose we will see in 2016...