Fuel discussions/questions - Octane Regular or Premium (merged threads)
#271
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What you say is technically correct. But there is a big “if” involved. “If” the GX460 actually is pulling timing on regular gas. Many of us, myself included, believe based upon the comparison to the Toyota version of the same engine that the Lexus does not need premium and was not actually designed for premium. I’ve read what has been said about ECU tuning possible being different. By I’m finding it hard to believe that the Toyota puts out the same peak torque and ten more horsepower with more conservative tuning. I can’t prove that, and perhaps someone can prove me wrong and I’m okay with that. Just my opinion but based upon a fair amount of circumstantial evidence.
I've done thousands of test for Lexus and on all their engines the results always came back the same. The fuel directly played into the amount of fuel dilution and carbon deposits present in the engine. Less fuel dilution = less wear = less strain = more comfort. The guys who design bearings for these engines spend hours every day listening on specialized gear, trying to reduce the most minuet amount of sound. An engine that suffers from fuel dilution will wear everything at a faster rate and create more deposits. This is what leads engines to run rough at 80,000 miles, something Ford, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, MB, Audi and more are desperately reeling from. A gunked up engine requiring a walnut blast at $1,000+ is not something Lexus wants it's customers to experience, either in ride or at the service department.
The tests I will be running will allow many here to see the same thing I've seen, and tested for many years.
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tecman (05-11-18)
#272
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As I've stated previously, Lexus has a different mark to reach. Toyota is not striving to achieve maximum comfort and luxury. This Lexus will run smoother and better on Premium grade, because it will be more efficient and it will burn cleaner. That is a very big thing. They want these cars running like they were brand new at 100,000 miles. It improves the already terrific resale value for their customer base and dealer base.
I've done thousands of test for Lexus and on all their engines the results always came back the same. The fuel directly played into the amount of fuel dilution and carbon deposits present in the engine. Less fuel dilution = less wear = less strain = more comfort. The guys who design bearings for these engines spend hours every day listening on specialized gear, trying to reduce the most minuet amount of sound. An engine that suffers from fuel dilution will wear everything at a faster rate and create more deposits. This is what leads engines to run rough at 80,000 miles, something Ford, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, MB, Audi and more are desperately reeling from. A gunked up engine requiring a walnut blast at $1,000+ is not something Lexus wants it's customers to experience, either in ride or at the service department.
The tests I will be running will allow many here to see the same thing I've seen, and tested for many years.
I've done thousands of test for Lexus and on all their engines the results always came back the same. The fuel directly played into the amount of fuel dilution and carbon deposits present in the engine. Less fuel dilution = less wear = less strain = more comfort. The guys who design bearings for these engines spend hours every day listening on specialized gear, trying to reduce the most minuet amount of sound. An engine that suffers from fuel dilution will wear everything at a faster rate and create more deposits. This is what leads engines to run rough at 80,000 miles, something Ford, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, MB, Audi and more are desperately reeling from. A gunked up engine requiring a walnut blast at $1,000+ is not something Lexus wants it's customers to experience, either in ride or at the service department.
The tests I will be running will allow many here to see the same thing I've seen, and tested for many years.
#273
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While your testing may provide some insight, the inference space of your study will be too narrow to apply generally (you have one GX, driving how you drive, in the environment you drive in, at that altitude, etc.) As Daniel once said: "be careful of pre-mature generalization".
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Rygar470 (07-01-20)
#274
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What you say is technically correct. But there is a big “if” involved. “If” the GX460 actually is pulling timing on regular gas. Many of us, myself included, believe based upon the comparison to the Toyota version of the same engine that the Lexus does not need premium and was not actually designed for premium. I’ve read what has been said about ECU tuning possible being different. By I’m finding it hard to believe that the Toyota puts out the same peak torque and ten more horsepower with more conservative tuning. I can’t prove that, and perhaps someone can prove me wrong and I’m okay with that. Just my opinion but based upon a fair amount of circumstantial evidence.
#275
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I’m not sure even what kind of study you are talking about, or what data. Regardless, I was clear that I was stating an opinion, but that my opinion has basis for it. If you want to take a shot at me for not having empirical studies at my disposal....studies that you obviously have seen, then how about providing a link to them?
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Craigyyy (06-05-18)
#276
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I’m not sure even what kind of study you are talking about, or what data. Regardless, I was clear that I was stating an opinion, but that my opinion has basis for it. If you want to take a shot at me for not having empirical studies at my disposal....studies that you obviously have seen, then how about providing a link to them?
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue...ineBasics.html
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/premi....htm/printable
http://www.comeanddriveit.com/engine...tion-and-knock
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...rticle4102182/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/w...-premium-fuel/
Technical and data:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360128516300764#bib0003
https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/s...52B24C92562804
I cannot find a single case where the report recommends using an octane other than recommended by the manufacturer. If you have one, post the link.
#277
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Yes clearly you state an opinion and we are all free to state those opinions...I have no idea what you mean by "but that my opinion has a basis for it"? You want some links...I suppose you need some help with research, so here you go. First the basics (as I have no idea what you do or do not know):
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue...ineBasics.html
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/premi....htm/printable
http://www.comeanddriveit.com/engine...tion-and-knock
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...rticle4102182/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/w...-premium-fuel/
Technical and data:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360128516300764#bib0003
https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/s...52B24C92562804
I cannot find a single case where the report recommends using an octane other than recommended by the manufacturer. If you have one, post the link.
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue...ineBasics.html
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/premi....htm/printable
http://www.comeanddriveit.com/engine...tion-and-knock
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...rticle4102182/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/w...-premium-fuel/
Technical and data:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360128516300764#bib0003
https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/s...52B24C92562804
I cannot find a single case where the report recommends using an octane other than recommended by the manufacturer. If you have one, post the link.
#278
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Apologies, I re-read my post and it did sound condescending...what I don't know is your background...education, et. al. If you were a Chem E. I would provide links that discuss the chemistry "arguments", whereas an ME, might likely be more persuaded by physics. And yes, you should read the studies that have been done in this area. They are quite fascinating reads and it is amazing how we are still learning about the factors contributing to the performance, durability, etc. of an IC engine.
#279
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While your testing may provide some insight, the inference space of your study will be too narrow to apply generally (you have one GX, driving how you drive, in the environment you drive in, at that altitude, etc.) As Daniel once said: "be careful of pre-mature generalization".
What we are looking for is the difference regular grade and premium grade fuels will create in an engine, not which brand of fuel/oil is best for you. Regardless of an engine being floored constantly or consistent driving, we are merely looking for the change in effects in the engine and oil from affecting the timing and quality and quantity of additives in the fuel. The additives found in Shell's V-Power are entirely different from what's found in their Regular grade. Not to mention a 6 point increase in octane is going to make the engine run much differently, whether it's a constantly floored engine or driven around town.
In the end, while you are definitely correct and valid in bringing up those concerns, no one here is paying $150,000+ for the data! This is just me providing a general insight for people on here to check out, with my professional knowledge of Lexus, for free.
#280
Driver School Candidate
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Not looking to get too far into the debate here, but thought'd I throw out a data point. I used exclusively 87 Octane until I stumbled across this thread a few weeks back and realized I was in error and switched to 93 which I get from my local Kroger fuel station. With no change in daily commute or driving habits-my per tank MPG went from 15.6 MPG using 87 Octane to 17.6 MPG using 93 Octane (two tanks worth).
My $.02, Your results may vary.
HR
My $.02, Your results may vary.
HR
#281
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Not looking to get too far into the debate here, but thought'd I throw out a data point. I used exclusively 87 Octane until I stumbled across this thread a few weeks back and realized I was in error and switched to 93 which I get from my local Kroger fuel station. With no change in daily commute or driving habits-my per tank MPG went from 15.6 MPG using 87 Octane to 17.6 MPG using 93 Octane (two tanks worth).
My $.02, Your results may vary.
HR
My $.02, Your results may vary.
HR
#282
Driver School Candidate
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This is my first post on this site, but I have been a long time ES350 owner. I am due to pick up my new GX 460 next week, but I just read that Premium fuel is required for this vehicle. I had this same issue several years ago with a ES350, but the dealer said regular was fine. I drove it for 7 years with regular and all was good. What's the deal with the 460? Are you folks running regular or premium gas in your newer GXs? The Lexus owner's guide says your warranty can be voided if you don't use Premium, and damage is done.
Thanks for your input on this issue.
Thanks for your input on this issue.
Last edited by shooter191; 06-02-18 at 07:18 AM.
#283
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Search finds this recent thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gx-...ny-issues.html
And
Search for Lexus GX 460 regular or premium gas results
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gx-...ny-issues.html
And
Search for Lexus GX 460 regular or premium gas results
#284
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 8
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![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Search finds this recent thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gx-...ny-issues.html
And
Search for Lexus GX 460 regular or premium gas results
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gx-...ny-issues.html
And
Search for Lexus GX 460 regular or premium gas results