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This is my first time using a scanner, so I haven't seen what the values are when everything is working correctly. Anyone that has more experience looking at this kind of data, would you mind telling me if something stands out to you? The attached PDF was captured while the car was cranking. I had sprayed some starter fluid into the intake. That did ignite, so the engine turned over briefly but didn't continue to run.
As you can see in the image below, I unplugged the MAF sensor and disconnected the air filter from the intake. That caused a P0102 and a P0113 which also triggered the Freeze Frame data that you see in the PDF. A few things in the report look odd to me, but I'm not positive. I'm going to be looking into some of those things while I wait to see what y'all think.
The data in the PDF was captured while I was doing this...
If there is another scenario that you would like me to setup and capture for you, I'd be happy to do that.
If any of you want to capture, with a scanner or Techstream, what a good start looks like, that would help me too.
You might need Techstream to troubleshoot this one.
That PDF I posted is from Techstream. As it turns out, I'm already running it exactly like that post describes. I'm comfortable with computers and software, but I'm unfamiliar with this particular application - Techstream. So far, I've been figuring it out as I go.
There are two places, I think, that some input would give me a big advantage.
If someone could capture and share "a normal start sequence" then I would be able to contrast my data from a "no start sequence".
Since this is my first time running Techstream, I've only seen data from this error condition.
I don't know what "normal" is and so when I see, for example, that the Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage for Bank-1 Sensor-1 is 0V, I have to figure out if that is a problem or expected.
If someone could look over the PDF I posted and point out anything that is obviously problematic.
From there I can use the factory service manual to help me perform specific tests; for example, running the fuel pump manually or measuring the volume of fuel passing through the fuel injectors.
I haven't actually done those tests yet, but I expect that I would be able to once I reach the correct place in the FSM. Most of the steps I've been guided through so far are checking connections, fuses, and relays. Those steps have all been passing so far. I'm still working through the steps though.
I'm currently working through the SFI System > Problem Symptoms Table : No initial combustion (Does not start) scenario.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
When everything is back together and it doesn't start what codes do you get?
I get a P1604. I uploaded another PDF that I captured just before the previous PDF I posted. Everything in the engine compartment is connected and I was not adding starter fluid. In this scenario the vehicle cranks, but doesn't start.
Is there a feature that would prevent fuel from being injected into the cylinders? I don't have any after-market security system. I don't pay for any of the "OnStar" (or whatever it is called) services. Is there a default security system that might have triggered while I had the battery disconnected and now it is preventing me from starting the car?
I've specifically asked this question when speaking to someone at my local dealership, but I'm learning that you guys know more than they do. It would make sense if my problem is being enforced by a security feature. That would explain why the individual components are passing all the tests I perform, but the car still isn't starting.
Are you sure you are getting fuel? I know this is a stretch but is your fuel tank over 1/4 full. There are some reports that fuel tank sender units on some models aren't reporting below 1/8 of a tank.
Have you checked fuel pressure? I've never done that with a gauge but there should be a Schrader valve on the fuel rail if you have the appropriate gauge.
I believe if security system was causing it to not start this should show up in Techstream. There aren't any remote kill options on the 10-13 models.
Have you tried both of your keys if it is the immobilizer?
You may want to reach out to the GXOR group on Facebook (if on FB) as well. There are several Toyota and Lexus master technicians on there that may help better pinpoint the problem.
Closest I have seen to your issue was this post about some replaced ECU and relay.
This is my first time using a scanner, so I haven't seen what the values are when everything is working correctly. Anyone that has more experience looking at this kind of data, would you mind telling me if something stands out to you? The attached PDF was captured while the car was cranking. I had sprayed some starter fluid into the intake. That did ignite, so the engine turned over briefly but didn't continue to run.
As you can see in the image below, I unplugged the MAF sensor and disconnected the air filter from the intake. That caused a P0102 and a P0113 which also triggered the Freeze Frame data that you see in the PDF. A few things in the report look odd to me, but I'm not positive. I'm going to be looking into some of those things while I wait to see what y'all think.
The data in the PDF was captured while I was doing this...
If there is another scenario that you would like me to setup and capture for you, I'd be happy to do that.
If any of you want to capture, with a scanner or Techstream, what a good start looks like, that would help me too.
Thanks!
wait... are you trying to start it with it all apart like that? if so, wont work, takes a pressure reading to tell its all apart. most likely flow. even with it electrically connected it would not want to start
close it up and will attempt to start. this means the air filter housing as well. with the filter in there
if this was mine, i would be looking at the voltages of the throttle body, theres a connector with like 6 pins on there.
when the position is mostly the same, the internal pot traces wear, and you can get this type of issue.
there's a balance on resistance between the resistance itself at the throttle body and the reading of the resulting voltage at the ecu
the tundra fix will say run a test and change the ecu. this ecu should be under warranty same as other emissions parts per federal law.
the exact same test process for lexus will say to change the throttle body. this is not covered under the extended emissions warranty
^^^ that is if after closing up, you get the limp mode or 4lo and issues after starting up. might even get a new set of codes.
I know this is a stretch but is your fuel tank over 1/4 full. There are some reports that fuel tank sender units on some models aren't reporting below 1/8 of a tank.
I saw some posts about that too. When the car originally died the gauge read slightly above 1/4 tank. When I read a post on the topic you are referencing the gauge read to the bottom side of the 1/4 tick mark. The attempts to start I've done since then appear to have moved the needle a bit more. The needle is no longer touching the 1/4 tick mark.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
Are you sure you are getting fuel?
No. I am not 100% certain that fuel is getting to the cylinder. I have seen readings that I took as an increase in confidence that it was happening. I have detected, what I thought, was the smell of fuel as I ran the fuel pump and attempted to get the car to turn over. I believe that one of the Techstream captures I posted above shows a non-zero value for the volume of fuel injected into a single cylinder.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
Are you hearing fuel pump run when you power on?
Yes. Additionally, when the car has the ignition on, but haven't started the engine yet, I can press the brake and hear the pump run. At least; I have assumed that it was the pump that I was hearing. It seems to run on ODD presses of the brake (e.g. 1, 3, 5, ...). I was using this to prime the engine just before I tried another start test.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
Fuel Pump relay checking out?
I have checked fuses, but not relays, related to the fuel delivery components. I will hear the engine achieve combustion, once or twice, while it is cranking. Since I thought that I was smelling fuel and I was hearing the pump run, I have been treating fuel as probably working while I moved on to validate spark and compression.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
Have you checked fuel pressure? I've never done that with a gauge but there should be a Schrader valve on the fuel rail if you have the appropriate gauge.
Unfortunately, I do not have a gauge. My plan was to use Techstream to manually run the pump and read the ECU to detect a change in pressure.
I read that there are not Schrader valves on the 2011 GX460. I just recently learned what a Schrader value is though, os it is entirely possible that I just haven't known what I was looking at.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
Did you do a full health check scan with Techstream? Or look for codes in Remote Start or Immobilizer area?
Yes, I did a full health check scan with Techstream; that is, with the version of the software that I got with my inexpensive VIM cable. Unfortunately, the software is not that stable. I get a lot of error dialogs and occasionally software crashes when I'm trying to run certain features. Being a noob when it comes to Techstream isn't helping. Any successful scanning I've done thus far has been more a function of exploration to learn the software that it has been an intentional and focused analysis of select systems.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
I believe if security system was causing it to not start this should show up in Techstream. There aren't any remote kill options on the 10-13 models.
Good point. I did see a section of the FSM describing which codes this would be, but I have not seen any of these show up.
Originally Posted by Acrad35751
Have you tried both of your keys if it is the immobilizer?
Beyond the term "immobilizer", I have not yet learned about this aspect of the system. I've only started the car via push button. I am aware that there is a physical key in the FOB, but I've never used it to start the car. Out of curiosity I used the physical key to unlock the driver-side door once, but other than that I'm not aware of other ways that the key can be used. I'll have to read up on this.
wait... are you trying to start it with it all apart like that?
In that particular picture, I was trying to see how it changed the readings on the Techstream output if I removed the MAF. I tried several scenarios. This was one of the last ones I tried as I explored how the Techstream output might convey that I had a compression problem. If you look in the PDF attached to an earlier post, the throughput for the MAF seems odd; however, I am not entirely sure what "normal" looks like because I'm a noob with the Techstream. Unless I have a reason to have specific components disconnected, then I would only try to start the car when the entire engine is put together and connected. Sorry for the confusing / misleading image that I shared.
Originally Posted by John00
if this was mine, i would be looking at the voltages of the throttle body, theres a connector with like 6 pins on there.
when the position is mostly the same, the internal pot traces wear, and you can get this type of issue.
there's a balance on resistance between the resistance itself at the throttle body and the reading of the resulting voltage at the ecu
^^^ that is if after closing up, you get the limp mode or 4lo and issues after starting up. might even get a new set of codes.
It is interesting that you mention this. Did I mention earlier in this thread that the throttle body motor will make a buzzing sound sometimes? It doesn't always happen and I'm not entirely convinced that it isn't an artifact of the battery wearing down slightly during my attempts to start the car. I'm not sure what to think of it! I was trying to use my copy of Techstream to capture some data around this event, just the other day, but Techstream kept crashing. Eventually I gave up trying to capture data while it was in that error state, I cycled the ignition state, and then Techstream was able to perform the very same scan that was previously crashing. I'm continuing to look into this.
04-25-19, 02:05 PM
