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I have to wonder and I have to believe there is 1 .....or many more '10 460's which didn't go back for the recall.
Just my opinion but that skid on the '10 seems fine with me. Had the video been with anti-roll skid bars like a Suzuki Samuri it may have had more of an impact on me.
In the Consumer Reports test, the driver sped the Lexus GX up to 60 mph and took the vehicle into a turn. The driver then quickly lifted his foot off the accelerator pedal to see how the vehicle would react. All four of Consumer Reports' auto engineers experienced the same problem -- the rear of the Lexus GX "slid out until the vehicle was almost sideways" before its electronic stability control system was able to regain control, according to the magazine.
Consumer Reports puts every vehicle it evaluates through the same test, including the 95 SUVs in the magazine's current auto ratings. No other SUV in recent years slid out as far as the GX 460, it said, not even the current model year Toyota 4Runner, which shares the same platform as the GX.
Seems reasonable to me, especially when my GX470 exhibited the same behavior in 60-65 MPH sweeping turns where there would be an instantaneous shift from under-steer to over-steer where the rear end would raise and start to "come around" ... with backing off on speed exacerbating the problem. Yes ... compared to the 4-Runner, the GX is heavier with a higher center of gravity ... but this is unacceptable, especially when even Sport mode did not improve this behavior. I changed out the AVS shocks to conventional while adding 1.25" of lift ... and the ride was less nervous, steering response was improved, and the problem described above was completely eliminated on the exact same stretch of road.
While viewed as blasphemy on this forum ... the AVS stock suspension setup SUCKS ... all in the interest of providing the ride comfort of a 50's Buick (as stated in an earlier post). So when purchasing a 2019 GX460 ... I avoided the Luxury package.
there is not much difference between Sport, Normal and Comfort suspension settings. In 2018 Lexus’ gx 460
is it just placebo
It's not placebo, but not dramatic at all. Though in a sense you could still argue that it's a placebo since the differences are so insignificant -- they basically serve to give the driver/owner one more gizmo to play with.
Originally Posted by RoadDawg
This is the best thread and explanation I have found anywhere regarding Lexus' Adaptive Variable Suspension. There is almost no technical information about this system other than a cryptic 44 second video on YouTube and smattering of comments here and there. Meanwhile, playing with the switch is not informative unless you give yourself some time to experience the settings, hopefully on the same stretches of road.
I have experimented extensively with the Comfort-Normal-Sport settings and find myself always wanting to leave it in Sport mode for city driving in speed bump-happy Portland, OR. Comfort mode gives me lots of fluffy bounce and Normal feels biased towards the Comfort. In fact, I don't find Comfort mode to be all that comfortable in general; frankly, it feels like I am driving grandpa's old Buick from the 50's. I get little road feel, and the feel I do get is more squishy than I like. Normal mode is nice on the highway, but not much nicer than Sport.
I have seen a couple of reviews that suggest the Normal mode will engage Sport mode damping levels under certain conditions. However, I cannot find anything from Lexus to back up this claim. I wonder if the reviewers may be conflating KDDS with AVS. Shocks are bound to affect body roll, so these systems must play together whether they want to or not. I'd be delighted to learn more from someone who knows more.
Yeah comfort mode doesn't really add much comfort. Just a lot of that big boat floatiness. But it still drives like a truck, which is to say it has a fairly rough ride, at least in terms of a Lexus. I drove a new F150 a couple years ago and it was a nicer ride than my GX.
Sport mode for me does add a little bit of road feel, and a slight amount of harshness. For me, at high speed it seem to give me an ever-so-slightly more planted road feel (vs normal). But it still wallows around the corners and nothing can quell that huge brake dive. It probably squishes a little less in the turns (vs comfort).
One thing comfort mode does do fairly well is muting expansion joints, etc. on the highway. Sport vs comfort, there is a fairly dramatic difference in the clack-clack over each joint. Big deal
All of that said, I leave mine in normal almost all the time. Or sometimes comfort if I forget.
Decent shocks would not allow the (extreme) level of brake drive the Lexus shocks impose on the driver ... all in the interest of "comfort". Nice if one wants to be comfortable up to the point of impending death in an emergency maneuver ... when the vehicle is totally out of control. Software mitigation should not be necessary if the suspension is set up correctly.
Lexus updated the GX stability control to better manage side slide.......and that solved the problem, as stated by Lexus AND Consumer Reports. Done.
Lexus did NOT upgrade the shocks, anti-roll bars, or anything hardware wise. It was a simple change in parameters of the stability control.
BMW, Mercedes, etc. all have stability control...even their M-series and AMGs. Having a stability control intervene during extreme maneuvers does not mean that the suspension was designed badly.
During that time (time of CR initial reporting), even C&D or MT commented that GX stability control did not kick in much (prior to recall) during their testings, which was fine BTW. It was NOT that stability control was same as everyone else, yet GX slid. No, on the contrary, the GX stability control did not kick in when other vehicles' systems did.
Changing out shocks and lifting it are NOT the answer. Shocks do not control everything. Certainly lifting is not wise if your main purpose was to have better evasive performance.
And if GX470 had similar behavior as GX460, then just maybe the "behavior" is due to something else.......like tall COG, narrow track, 5700 lbs, solid rear axle, high unsprung weight (vs. crossover), etc..
With the GX460 being on the road for nearly 10 years (and apparently equally dangerous GX470 before that, per one member), you would think that we would hear about high rate of rollovers or accidents from the poorly design SHOCKS. Not sure about anyone else, but i have not jack.
I am sure that GX won't be breaking any Nürburgring records anytime soon.........but i am sure that IMPENDING DEATH is not a common thing with GX. Gosh i sure hope not! I just got to 3000 miles!
In the Consumer Reports test, the driver sped the Lexus GX up to 60 mph and took the vehicle into a turn. The driver then quickly lifted his foot off the accelerator pedal to see how the vehicle would react. All four of Consumer Reports' auto engineers experienced the same problem -- the rear of the Lexus GX "slid out until the vehicle was almost sideways" before its electronic stability control system was able to regain control, according to the magazine.
Consumer Reports puts every vehicle it evaluates through the same test, including the 95 SUVs in the magazine's current auto ratings. No other SUV in recent years slid out as far as the GX 460, it said, not even the current model year Toyota 4Runner, which shares the same platform as the GX.
A sweeping turn is not an "extreme maneuver" ... the reason for the "Do Not Buy" rating.
Now, not sure how accurate NHTSA complaints are...but going back a few years, i read about the dreaded LEAN in every year...just the complaint that there is one.
Not one complaint from 2014-2019 (i got tired of checking beyond that) was about rollovers or unstable around corners or excessive brake dive or two-wheelies or people throwing up from Buick ride...not one.
"Following that [software upgrade] we again put the SUV through our full series of emergency handling tests. This time, the ESC system intervened earlier and its rear did not slide out in the lift-off oversteer test. Instead, the vehicle understeered—or plowed—when it exceeded its limits of traction, which is a more common result and makes the vehicle more predictable and less likely to roll over. Overall, we did not experience any safety concerns with the corrected GX 460 in our handling tests."
- "They [CONSUMER REPORTS] also say that the suspension tuning on the two vehicles is “radically different,” with the 4Runner being much softer and exhibiting pronounced squat and dive."
So, it seems that the 4runner may have a SOFTER tune suspension yet passed the CR LIFT-throttle emergency handling test. The GX has a more firmly tuned suspension yet slid. Hmmmmmmmm...that's interesting and kinda blow the whole "Buick" ride as the cause argument out of the water.
CLEARLY, a firmer suspension would NOT solve what CR was experiencing...a total rebuke that aftermarket firm shocks fixing the issue.
- "...as reported by CR, there have been no known rollover problems with the GX under normal conditions."
Well, given that the following 9 years of GX production, not one single COMPLAINT (not event/accident) of handling issue, per NHTSA. Not one.
- "[CONSUMER REPORTS] told us that in the two other non-lift-throttle runs through the same test, the GX460’s stability control acted quickly and appropriately."
So, what does this tell us? The 2010 GX was delivered to consumer with a SOFTWARE BUG that prevented VSC from intervening in such emergency maneuvers when driver lifted the throttle. A software bug. One that was fixed promptly with a SOFTWARE UPDATE.
And thus, everyone in the world can breath a sigh of relief that there is no impending doom to GX owners with stock suspension. Wow.
But hey, what do I (or CR or Car & Driver or just about everyone else) know...but i think that i gonna fix all this fictional impending doom with 3" lift!! Internet says that it helps...and i trust the internet!
- On models equipped with Adaptive Variable air Suspension (AVS), when the PCS is activated the AVS system adjusts to firmer settings for optimal chassis response.
- The GX 460 features Adaptive Variable-air Suspension (AVS) with three settings (comfort, normal and sport) for increased ride comfort over various road surfaces. In addition, the Rear Adjustable Height Control (RAHC) is included to lower the rear by 0.8 inches or raise it by 1.6 inches for easier loading and unloading.
- APCS option also integrates a Driver Monitor System first introduced to the world by Lexus. A camera mounted on the steering column monitors the orientation of the driver’s face. If the camera detects that the driver is not looking directly ahead for a few seconds or more, and if an obstacle is detected ahead, the system alerts the driver first with a warning beep and a flashing light. As the car closes on the obstacle, if the driver does not react, APCS can begin to gently apply the vehicle’s brakes.
- When the transmission is shifted into low range, Crawl Control regulates engine speed and output, along with braking force, to propel the vehicle forward or in reverse at one of three low-speed settings. With Crawl Control activated, the driver can more easily focus on steering over particularly rough level ground or steep grades without having to also concentrate on the throttle or brake pedals. Crawl Control also actuates a set of virtual locking differentials to help reduce tire slippage and optimize chassis behavior.
05-01-19, 06:19 PM
