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The Auto setting of the HVAC system will direct cold air to the dash vents when it is
hot outside and warm air to the floor vents when it is cold outside. The ventilated seats
are picking up the floor air so the trick in very hot weather is to just tap the HVAC "Mode"
button (near the fan speed buttons, has a diagram of up/down/defrost) just once to
override the default "dash only" setting and enable "dash and floor" vents. The Auto
light will go out but it will still be providing the temperature you selected, Left and Right.
I've done some searching here but can't find anything on this topic.
About a month or so ago I did the Porsche Experience, here in Carson, CA. I was zipping around the track and other features that they have there having a good 'ol time (by the way, that is a REAL hoot!!!) and started getting quite warm from the workout. My instructor turned on the A/C and the ventilated seats and it was AWESOME! I almost felt like an air hockey puck being elevated! Cooled me down immediately. These new Porsche's have incredible seats with cooling!
In contrast, I can barely feel the air flow from my GX's front ventilated seats. When I say I can barely feel the air flow, I mean with my hand against the seat back! I don't feel it at all with a shirt on and sitting in my rig with the seat cooling ventilator on.
Question: Is is possible to upgrade or boost the ventilation (cooling) of the front seats? Has anyone ever tried to replace the fan with a larger blower/fan or something? Are there any tricks to get more ventilation? Any ideas?
Here is the back of the seat fan and as you can see the white plastic mount will not allow a larger fan without a serious mod here. More RPM or a different fan blade that is angled more would work but both would require replacing the original fan.
Unfortunately the GX only has ventilated, no AC vents to actually cool...
I wonder if just adding an array of about 4 computer size fans under the seat may help? Heck, their cheap enough and wouldn't involve much wiring.
But I think that would only satisfy the seat cushion bottom and not the back.
Do either of you know where the seat back draws air from? Is it still from below the seat?
Another idea may be to fabricate or design and 3D print a new fan mount to allow for either a larger fan or an array of fans.
I built my own 3D printer a little over a year ago and being an engineer and having my own license of SoildWorks, I could easily design something like that, providing I have the time.
A few have suggested just capturing more air by blocking the rear footwell area of seat helps. Assuming cold airflow is at least partially directed to footwell.
I wonder if just adding an array of about 4 computer size fans under the seat may help? Heck, their cheap enough and wouldn't involve much wiring.
But I think that would only satisfy the seat cushion bottom and not the back.
My line of thinking is that pushing more air up into the seat, from under the seat will allow the fans in the seat to work more efficiently, since the seats seem to draw air from under the seat anyways.
I hope that is a well seated response. (did I used "seat" enough times???)
I would look for a single, similar sized can with 3x the output, and put it in place of the OEM fan. This will most likely mean a change in the electronics, which could be as simple as adding a switch or even using a transistor to control the higher amperage fan. If you find a suitable fan I think theres not much issue to making this work.
I would look for a single, similar sized can with 3x the output, and put it in place of the OEM fan. This will most likely mean a change in the electronics, which could be as simple as adding a switch or even using a transistor to control the higher amperage fan. If you find a suitable fan I think theres not much issue to making this work.
Per Tecman .... Looks similar to the design and size of of a computer cooling fan ... 60, 70, 80, 92 or 120mm fan size available in various RPM / CFM flow rates, and operate on 12-volts. I would think you would want to first understand how many CFM’s can permeate the seat ... and match the fan accordingly, otherwise a “too big” (CFM flow) fan will simply free-spin at excessive RPM’s given the restriction.
I just purchased from Amazon a 200mm x 200mm x 30mm 12 VDC fan that pushes 130 CFM that I'm going to stick under my seat and see if that helps the seat and back fan develop a little more flow.
My logic is if kicking up the floor mats in the rear seats to divert the air flow from going through the bottom of the seat to the rear seats, instead to flow upwards to the front seat cushions provides a little more flow, then maybe just adding a large 8" fan right under the seat might do better?
Heck for $15 clams, why not??
If it works, $30 dollars for two fans (one for each front seat) and wiring it into the seat cushion wiring to work with the existing console rotatory switches may be a cheap and functional way of keeping us cool in the upcoming months!
I should be getting the fan in today or tomorrow.
I'll keep this thread posted of my experiment.
Per Tecman .... Looks similar to the design and size of of a computer cooling fan ... 60, 70, 80, 92 or 120mm fan size available in various RPM / CFM flow rates, and operate on 12-volts. I would think you would want to first understand how many CFM’s can permeate the seat ... and match the fan accordingly, otherwise a “too big” (CFM flow) fan will simply free-spin at excessive RPM’s given the restriction.
There's always some part in the system that holds the system back. In this case, could be the fan, could be the power to the fan, could be the seat restriction.
How to "understand" how many CFM's can permeate the seat? Slow way is to calculate the seat as a tube and orifices, then determine the pressure you will run at. Even then, you are left with the inaccuracies of assumptions and difference due to seat variance, material breakdown, etc. Quick way is to get a more powerful fan.
There's a PWM or resistive circuit that is used to match the fan output to the preferred output. This, along with size limitations and cost, pretty much eliminate getting a too big fan.
I doubt a computer fan, or a combination of them will do much. This is not an enclosure or a room at ambient pressure, this is a ventilated seat. Need to look at the pressure the fan can create. and the bigger fan may actually have a lower pressure.
Do we have the specs of the fan? a part number? That's a good place to start.
second would be to look at the current draw at max setting. theres a pretty constant relationship between current and output within fan technologies.
Plan on 6-10 watts. I cant imagine a computer fan anywhere close. I have a couple Papst fans here, 0.7 and 1.8W, these are way more powerful than an enclosure fan, and I dont think they would do much in the seat in the original GX position
A set of those back to back with an adapter could be the ticket to a cooler ***. Above from Delta.
Papst makes some of the best fans. Might be better to go with multiple smaller fans, like this:
Above from Papst. The spec for fans like that are about 0.35 CFM at 150 Pa. So six in that seat are ~2 CFM. This makes sense because you don't need to move much air, but you have to overcome much restriction.
John00: As much as I (and we as a community) appreciate your articulate breakdown of how one could calculate the necessary air flow, I think that would be better served if there was a need to maintain a tight tolerance of +x CFM. As an R&D engineer, often times we just need to qualify if an experiment will pass a certain parameter or not. Albeit with a doctoral degree in math, enough time and a large enough chalk board (white board for you young'ns) one could also come to the same conclusions as the experiment I'm outlining below will do. I also agree that there are too many variables to factor in, such as resistance of all the materials the air has to pass through, transient leaks through fabric seams and other orifices and so on.
The experiment:
Baseline: Use a small strip of paper (read: Post-It note) on about a small .50" high block of wood. The Post-It tacky part would be on the wood and the non adhesive section cantilevered off the edge to allow deflection. Place it in the center of the seat cushion. Turn on the seat fan and measure with a ruler the deflection the Post-It note bents whilst blowing up form the seat.
Test: Mount the new 200mm x 200mm x 30mm 12 VDC directly under the seat, run some wires from my secondary battery under my hood to the fan. Use the same block of wood and same Post-It note and place in the same position on the seat. Ensure all other environmental conditions are the same: e.g. same seat used, same door open while, no other fans or functions operating during the test, no heavy breezes or winds outside the vehicle, etc. Turn both the GX seat fan on and the new fan on. While both are on, measure the deflection of the Post-It note again to see if there is any measurable difference in deflection, either plus or minus.
Results:
If there is any increase in (>) deflection: PASS
If three is equal or less (<) deflection: FAIL
John00: As much as I (and we as a community) appreciate your articulate breakdown of how one could calculate the necessary air flow, I think that would be better served if there was a need to maintain a tight tolerance of +x CFM. As an R&D engineer, often times we just need to qualify if an experiment will pass a certain parameter or not. Albeit with a doctoral degree in math, enough time and a large enough chalk board (white board for you young'ns) one could also come to the same conclusions as the experiment I'm outlining below will do. I also agree that there are too many variables to factor in, such as resistance of all the materials the air has to pass through, transient leaks through fabric seams and other orifices and so on.
The experiment:
Baseline: Use a small strip of paper (read: Post-It note) on about a small .50" high block of wood. The Post-It tacky part would be on the wood and the non adhesive section cantilevered off the edge to allow deflection. Place it in the center of the seat cushion. Turn on the seat fan and measure with a ruler the deflection the Post-It note bents whilst blowing up form the seat.
Test: Mount the new 200mm x 200mm x 30mm 12 VDC directly under the seat, run some wires from my secondary battery under my hood to the fan. Use the same block of wood and same Post-It note and place in the same position on the seat. Ensure all other environmental conditions are the same: e.g. same seat used, same door open while, no other fans or functions operating during the test, no heavy breezes or winds outside the vehicle, etc. Turn both the GX seat fan on and the new fan on. While both are on, measure the deflection of the Post-It note again to see if there is any measurable difference in deflection, either plus or minus.
Results:
If there is any increase in (>) deflection: PASS
If three is equal or less (<) deflection: FAIL
I'll post when I finish my testing.
I think there's a misunderstanding. Let me try to clarify.
What I wrote was in response to:
Originally Posted by ASE
Per Tecman .... Looks similar to the design and size of of a computer cooling fan ... 60, 70, 80, 92 or 120mm fan size available in various RPM / CFM flow rates, and operate on 12-volts. I would think you would want to first understand how many CFM’s can permeate the seat ... and match the fan accordingly, otherwise a “too big” (CFM flow) fan will simply free-spin at excessive RPM’s given the restriction.
Specifically "first understand how many CFM’s can permeate the seat." I am saying that I agree in concept, but for us here we could skip the math and proceed to experimentation.
I added to start at 3x -or- look at the power. This was to guide on which fan to start out with. Again, to get to experimentation as quickly as possible with a decent probability of success. Selecting a fan 3x or more will have a higher probability of success than just selecting one without knowledge on the power.
I like the experiment above, but would modify the pass/fail criteria. The gain has to be worth the work, not just any amount of gain will justify implementation. (back to the 3x comment)
Fans in series might be the easiest way, this will have a greater impact on pressure than other configurations. Works like hydraulic pumps in series.
nice chart/pic http://www.sunon.com/uFiles/file/03_...nology/006.pdf sunon makes many pc enclosure fans
John00: As much as I (and we as a community) appreciate your articulate breakdown of how one could calculate the necessary air flow, I think that would be better served if there was a need to maintain a tight tolerance of +x CFM. As an R&D engineer, often times we just need to qualify if an experiment will pass a certain parameter or not. Albeit with a doctoral degree in math, enough time and a large enough chalk board (white board for you young'ns) one could also come to the same conclusions as the experiment I'm outlining below will do. I also agree that there are too many variables to factor in, such as resistance of all the materials the air has to pass through, transient leaks through fabric seams and other orifices and so on.
The experiment:
Baseline: Use a small strip of paper (read: Post-It note) on about a small .50" high block of wood. The Post-It tacky part would be on the wood and the non adhesive section cantilevered off the edge to allow deflection. Place it in the center of the seat cushion. Turn on the seat fan and measure with a ruler the deflection the Post-It note bents whilst blowing up form the seat.
Test: Mount the new 200mm x 200mm x 30mm 12 VDC directly under the seat, run some wires from my secondary battery under my hood to the fan. Use the same block of wood and same Post-It note and place in the same position on the seat. Ensure all other environmental conditions are the same: e.g. same seat used, same door open while, no other fans or functions operating during the test, no heavy breezes or winds outside the vehicle, etc. Turn both the GX seat fan on and the new fan on. While both are on, measure the deflection of the Post-It note again to see if there is any measurable difference in deflection, either plus or minus.
Results:
If there is any increase in (>) deflection: PASS
If three is equal or less (<) deflection: FAIL
I'll post when I finish my testing.
Why not keep the doors & windows closed and place a cheap anemometer on the seat to measure airflow with and without the added fan. No need to try to measure the lift on a post-it note which introduces too many variables.
10-10-18 | 02:05 PM
Seat Ventilation / Cooler Questions & Comments
