newcarshoppingsucks

I have 3 months to get something or get a high mileage car (Accord or older Lexus) and wait it out a bit longer. I sold my German car with remaining extended warranty because I did not want to keep it past warranty. I can give my kid the car when she gets her license in the next year. I'll have to figure out whether it's worth waiting for. Funny how cars are becoming iPhones with wait times and reservations.

jcwls3

New member here — first post. My wife and I live in the Dallas area and decided to toss our hats in the ring on a GX550 Overtrail+ a few months ago.

While we’ve never owned a Lexus before, we’ve purchased numerous other new cars over the years from other branches of the two Lexus shops in the area, Park Place and Sewell. So we have an indirect relationship with them.

On inquiry, however, neither would accept a deposit. The sales staff put our names on waitlists, and will only accept said deposit ($1,000) after our turn comes AND they locate a vehicle to our satisfaction. That means Earth or Nori Green exterior with black roof; Chateau / Olive interior; HUD; and moonroof.

“How long, and where are we on your list?” we asked.

One dealer wouldn’t give a waitlist number, instead telling us only “a year or two.” The other was more forthcoming, saying they had about 250 folks ahead of us, but figured quite a few would fall away. He estimated we’d have ours by the end of the year.

”That’s the problem with no-deposit reservations,” he offered, with some exasperation. “Most people who put their names on the list aren’t all that serious. You call them when they’re up, and they act like they never heard of you.”

We shall see. I told them we’d check in every quarter or so. We’re in no rush.

We do find Toyota/Lexus’ “ordering” system stupid. It seems counterintuitive that you can custom-build the car you want on their website, but you can’t actually order the thing. You just tell your dealer, “Hey, this is what I want,” and then the dealer plays make-a-deal with other dealers and incoming inventory to find something sort of close. And since we’re in the Gulf States region, apparently all sorts of port-added stuff gets tacked on before reaching said dealer.

At which point he calls you in, points to a car that is pretty close but probably not exactly what you want, and says, “There it is. Sign here, here, and here. Thanks for your bidness.”

This is in contrast with, say. Porsche, which custom-builds your car to your exacting specs, then allows you to follow it across the ocean to port, where nobody touches or adds a single thing as it’s trucked up for final delivery. We’ve been blessed to order several; it’s a uniformly great process. Why Lexus can’t do it at least for its higher, lower-volume trims is a mystery. It sure would go a long way toward bringing in additional spoiled, entitled customers — like my wife and me.

Anyway, my apologies for the long post. Just wanted to get that off my chest. Toyota, if you’re reading this: You build a quality car. But buying the one you want is a damned hassle. Do better.

calicoaster

Good luck with the wait and markups (usually in the form of unsolicited add-ons at a 1000% premium). Here is my story and some subsequent posts on another thread.

FastTurtle

Is waiting not an option? I’m not sure it’s worth it to go through all the wait list and stuff.

Good luck

newcarshoppingsucks

I hear you. The way they are going about all this is dumb. And with the change over to more complex car mechanics, we may be seeing the end of Toyota reliability. It’s not in their best interest to lose customer loyalty for those that are loyal to brands.

The X5 is a great choice. I was thinking about one. My configuration was less than the GX. But I’m just getting out of a German car and do not want another one past warranty. The B58 engine is solid. But parts for German cars are expensive.

I have a 4runner on my short list. It will be the last year, and TRD Pro’s hold their value. So getting one in Undercover color may be a decent idea while the GX kinks get ironed out if I still want it.

NickL

I don’t see any of this being Toyota/Lexus fault. Like I said, let the hype dies down. The initial (phantom) demand for GX550 is high but stock will catch up. 95% of the people buy GX because Lexus didn’t have any mid-price third row(LX570 is close to 100k). Now that we have the TX, some of the buyer will look at that. GX550 is also priced 6-10k higher than previous model. Dealership will also have to be careful where they mark up the GX550 because we also have the LX600 premium for 106k. With some discount, it’ll be close to 100k on the Lx600 premium. If a 85k GX550 luxury+/OT+ with 10k markup, now it’s competing with its own LX600.
There’s a reason why BMW X5 are piling up at the dealership. I’m not going into that. While I agree the custom ordering on any Lexus is basically non-existent, it’s not like you can custom order an X5 or a 911 and it will be ready to pick up in a couple weeks. Last I checked for M5, it’s at least 6 months ordeal.
Dealer mark ups have little to do with the manufacturer. They can’t control that. If the demand is there, any dealer will try to get more money regardless of brand.
X5 is a pedestrian vehicle, supply is always healthy. How many RX and ES and NX on the Lexus dealers’ lot.

jbuffett

https://global.toyota/en/company/vis...uction-system/

It's all about parts and supply chain cost / efficiency. The wizards at HQ run a bunch of formulas to decide how many of each vehicle people want and where they want them, then they order enough parts to build those vehicles and ship them to the designated / allocated dealers. Then the dealers can trade from that allocation list.

The only car they sell that you can custom order is the LC500 (I have one). This is a new process starting in 2022, they sell under 2000 LC's a year. I wouldn't expect this process to expand to the higher volume vehicles just because they'll build enough of those vehicles to account for most/all very picky customers. And if they don't this year, they'll tweak the numbers next year based on what people are buying.

As a Toyota / Lexus fan, yeah this is frustrating. I've been tweaking newly purchased Toyotas for most of my adult life: from changing the wheels, badging, hand painting TOYOTA logos, upgrading to TRD Pro grills etc. And that's before I start lifting and armoring them to go offroad. Theoretically we all save a few bucks from this efficiency, but our next planned new vehicle (an SR5 Xtracab Tacoma) is over $40K which is ridiculous for a small pickup truck.

calicoaster

I am not seeing X5's piling up at the lot. When we did our test drive, there wasn't a single one available as they were all sold/incoming. We ended up having to get a loaner to test-drive. Some dealers show all their future allocation inventory but it doesn't mean that they are necessarily available. You are also incorrect about the wait time. The X5's are made in the US and I put my custom order in just a couple of weeks ago and the car was completed yesterday (a bit lucky on the timing as we grabbed an allocation for a '25 just as they opened, but worst case would have been +1 month delay for the next round). We should have it before mid April. The real M-cars (M3, M5 etc) are built in Munich, so that is a totally different story and yes, those take a long time. Let's not pretend that any of these cars are special. The GX, RX, X5 etc are all mass-produced cars. The problem that is being pointed out is that for BMW you can at least specify and get the exact configuration you want in a predictable manner. Most people buying the GX's will end up paying for a car that is an approximation of what they want after a very long wait and with large markups. For me it was too much to accept for a non-bespoke config. Its basically equivalent to a used-car buying experience in a way. You buy what you can get your hands on.

NickL

look here.
says 54 available with pics on the lot.
https://www.tulleybmwnashua.com/new-...%5D%5B0%5D=New

23 available with pics on the lot.
https://www.bmwofsudbury.com/new-inventory/index.htm?compositeType=new&model=X5

NickL

[QUOTE=calicoaster;11699819] Let's not pretend that any of these cars are special. The GX, RX, X5 etc are all mass-produced cars. The problem that is being pointed out is that for BMW you can at least specify and get the exact configuration you want in a predictable manner./QUOTE]

My point exactly. These aren’t special vehicle. They’re mass produced cars. Just like with anything new and shiny, there’s some waiting initially.
I agree that Lexus should offer true custom order on their vehicles but it’s not the end of the world.

calicoaster

I see a couple of things here. #1 - these are all '24s and #2 - they are all basic specs which I think BMW buyers typically don't go for. No one is buying a '24 since the order books for the '25 opened last month with first orders arriving later this week. I think this dealer made some errors in judgement. Not seeing this in San Diego at all. The '24 is also the LCI so we're mid-cycle. Lexus dealers had dozens of GX460's on lots for years which was totally fine. I am not really sure the point you're trying to make. You're saying that I am better off waiting for a first version of a new-gen GX because they are harder to get than an LCI X5 at this point in time? My decision to go with the X5 as a daily driver is based on the overall value proposition, the interior (which is superior to the GX Lux+ which we got to see at the SD Auto show last year), the power/acceleration/handling (even in 40i trim), getting the exact specs I want and actually getting my hands on that spec in a timely fashion. Had there been 100 X5's on the lot would not have changed anything except maybe paying even more under MSRP.

I think the GX 550 is a great vehicle especially if you go off-road. Our use-case is daily-driving and the longer we waited, the more we realized something like an X5 is actually a much better match. The only point I am making here is that the Lexus buying experience is crap in comparison to other luxury brands. For some people that is enough to be put off.

NickL

I’m not saying anything about your purchase of the X5. Just responding to your comment that X5 are not available from dealer. Im always okay with people buying whatever they want. Thats the way it should be.

jcwls3

Good points about the bespoke ordering process for most of the luxury German brands. We have a 911 GTS allocation request that won’t be fulfilled for at least a year. It took 18 months to get our Cayenne Turbo, but less than six for our Macan GTS. So Porsche order times are all over the place.

My point in voicing my issue with Lexus not engaging a true custom order process, at least for some of the mid-tier-and-up models, is that they’re basically showing some customers the door. If I have to wait the same 12 to 18 months to buy an $80K GX 550 that may or may not be exactly what I want in configuration, why can’t the company just accept my order request anyway and build it? They’d have a satisfied customer who wasn’t twisting in the wind for months (or years) hoping he gets what he wants in the end.

The conversation about dealer markups and Japanese brands is a whole ‘nother thing. I find it insane that Toyota (and some Lexus) dealers routinely gouge customers for what are in the end mass-produced, not particularly special vehicles that happen to be in the case of Lexus what I’d call “mainstream luxurious.” (In other words, very nice vehicles indeed, but nobody is comparing them to a Bentley.)

And yet, I can walk into various Porsche dealers in D/FW and ask for an allocation to order any car — including hyper-rare specialty vehicles like the 911 GT3 — at MSRP, with no dealer add-ons. Why is this?

The answer is simple: Local Toyota / Lexus dealers know their customers will pay those ADMs. Again and again and again. Conversely, local Porsche dealers know that junk is a non-starter for its customer base, which is as a general rule much wealthier.

Plainly, you don’t become exorbitantly wealthy by giving your money away to sheisters and thieves offering the shiny thing. A guy who’s self-made $20MM is absolutely not going to put up with being gouged. He’ll walk, and tell all his friends and family of the same socioeconomic stature what a bush-league move that attempted ADM was. None will ever spend a nickel in that dealership.

Since Toyota / Lexus has a much wider customer demographic, they can afford to **** a bunch of people off. More will flood in behind. So why not cut off your nose to spite your face? You’ll make a little more money, and people will still keep banging on your door.

Forgive the rant. You might guess I have never paid over MSRP for any car. And I never will. If that means no Overtrail+ for us, so be it.

ADMs are a scourge.

GX550owner

For what it’s worth my dealer in Florida says they don’t tack on Adm feels so we shall see.

mehran888

Appreciate your rant and I feel some of the rage. Note though, that in Canada the situation is a bit different. ADM is illegal for brand new cars. So usually it's "demo" or used cars that are marked up, most through the pandemic are marked up higher than new MSRP. The biggest offender? Porsche by far. I got denied an allocation after waiting 2 years with a deposit (I was told verbally I was second on a list). Only to see that same vehicle with needless options sitting on their lot for 3 months. A couple months passed, and the price was even higher and it was marked as a "demo" with about 500km on the odometer.

While it might feel right to blame the automakers, the dealerships will take advantage of the environment they're in. Here's to all of us hoping the auto industry returns to some normalcy in the next couple years.