DustinV

http://www.toyota.de/Images/AVENSIS_...281-456989.pdf

You're welcome.

RXSF

wow the pictures of the avensis really shorten the distance between that model an the HS. they have so many similar styling cues: headlights, tailights, rear trunk lid, side profile, grill, and rear bumper reflecters

DustinV

Just bumping this over from the last page in case 1SICKLEX misses it.



Actually, it's more the case of the American consumer "not getting it" (the idea behind such a car). And why should they? Gas is still relatively "cheap", there's no shortage of parking spaces and Americans still think "big is better". Plus, is there really a demand for such small cars in the US? Hardly. The BMW 135i that is sold in the US is obviously not marketed as an economy car nor is it aimed at your traditional older BMW buyer in the US. That car appeals to the younger generation. It's a good-looking sporty machine that comes from a prestigeous company and radiates a lot of "machoness" from it, too. This is the car that a young car enthusiast looking for fun will aspire to own, not an older buyer who would probably go for a 5 series or 7 series and baby it.

My wife, her old folks, they drive a Mercedes B class (gasoline). Now I am not sure what exact model it is but I do know that it is small on the outside, yet vast on the inside. I felt more cramped inside my sisters IS250 or a GS than I did in that thing. Obviously Mercedes did a great job of utilizing interior space to the fullest. The car is very versatile and practical, good on gas (has to be) and even has a very nice interior. I was very impressed with the car the few times I've ridden in it. It's also quiet and very comfortable. It feels like a Mercedes.

I am sure a BMW 1 series feels like a BMW and drives like a BMW too. European consumers obviously expect this. The American consumer won't even think that far. They see a BMW 1 series or an A class from Mercedes and this immediately goes against "What a BMW/Mercedes should be." It's literally that simple.

Furthermore, the 1 series and A- or B class are generally popular with a wide variety of consumers ranging from young to old. Now, I have no official figures or statistics, but I am willing to wager that the vast majority of buyers of these cars in Europe are older people. People who don't need a 3 series or an A4 or a C class or an IS. For such people, these offerings from the big German three are just perfect. A small, versatile premium car that's safe, well-built, comes with variety of engine options and trim levels. What's there not to like?


I am not sure if the HS250h even competes with the 1 series etc. It basically still looks like an IS so your typical Lexus buyer won't think negative of it. And if we're honest, the type of people buying an HS250h are probably going to be the very quiet crowd. The folks that don't race at stoplights or don't say much. They'll go for the car because they think they're doing mother nature a favor and it'll make them feel good in their little world.


By the way, that BMW 1 series you posted was obviously a cheaper trim model. Cheaper trims are essential in Europe. Everyone offers them except Rolls Royce, Bentley, Maybach, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche and Lexus.

videcormeum

That's not what I meant, exactly. I was responding to the point that Acura and Infiniti's lineups were Cimarrons - they are not engineered off cheap platforms (since the G20 was canned, anyway).

Also, I don't care what generation hybrid drive the HS gets - it's the same technology evolved with marginal improvements in fuel efficiency. While there's no need to argue that it's a good system, it's not revolutionary.

I don't care about the prices of cars in Europe. The regulatory and tax environment is asymmetric to the US.

-J-P-L-

Of course, because like I pointed out, the two cars are based on one another.

This is why I'm wondering why people are saying it's a fancy Corolla. Huh?
The HS/Avensis is much larger and much more expensive. It's at least the size of a Camry, if not bigger and the Avensis itself is a higher model than the Camry.

dunnojack

toyota announced that the closest sibling to the HS is the Avensis.

and i think the avensis side and rear look better.

because it has the shape of a corolla. and tacky body kit like a corolla

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

You need an eye exam and you need it soon...

DustinV

LOL

For which part? The part about the HS250h competing with the 1 series or it looking an IS?

kjl2007

reminds me of the honda civic

GFerg

Yep. Which is why I stated that it looked like it was based off of the Avensis, but others have stated otherwise that it is built off of a Prius platform. Yet, I have not seen any proof of either so...

Another reason why I feel this model is not up to Lexus standards or the reason I dont get it is that it seems the Prius will have more advanced battery technology. Why?...leaves me scratching my head even more.

Theres really not much else I can say about this car that I havent and others have already said. Bottom like, its utter crap for Lexus to produce this when they know it could have been tons better.

4U2eNv_8o8

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm...... This one looks interesting. It looks like a Honda Civic, Ford Focus, and Toyota Corolla combined. I can almost picture each aspect of the 3 cars in this one. Just seems to be interesting and new?!

DustinV

I was just checking out the Toyota Avensis in detail because I wanted to see what the interior looks like. Not bad. Even better-looking than the HS250h's!



Cleaner, less busy, more symmetrical and just more pleasing to the eye overall.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Good, because you just said that pretty much you are not in the HS' targeted buyer demography, just like me.

But let's keep in mind here, just because you and I don't "get" this car doesn't mean that the general buying public won't get it. Let's not forget that we, the enthusiasts, are part of a very small percentage of the overall buying public so we really shouldn't get ahead ourselves here by declaring the HS a failure before seeing what it really can do.

Not many people gave a **** about the Prius 10 years ago but look at it now. When (and it will) the gas goes back up to $4/gallon you can bet your *** that people will head into the showroom and ****** one of them hybrids at first chance.

pagemaster

And the LS430 was .25cd. The LS460 is at .26

LexFather

And again if you call this a Cimmeron, the entire Acura/Infiniti brands are Cimmerons. It doens't make any sense. The HS is not a straight rebadge, Lexus clearly put a lot of effort into making it different. IN comparison, did you miss the pics of the 13k based Acura CSX which IS A REBADGED CIVIC PERIOD. The TSX is a rebaged Accord. The G37 and M35/45 are rebadged Skylines and Fugas. Etc etc.

So if anyone has the car based literally on the 13k car its Acura (of course).

Dude it may "Look" like a Corolla but it shares pretty much NOTHING with it. Its Prius/Avensis based. It has a Camry engine and a rear Independent Suspension.

Again, we might not like the looks of the car but the technology inside and out shames flaghsips of the other two brands and it is one of the most advanced cars period.

Could the wrapper be better? Maybe. Its hard to change a sedan from a hatch.

Also the BATTERIES are UNDER the car, not in the trunk. This makes for a higher profile and taller car.