Lexus HS 250h...revealed Jan. 11
05-06-09, 02:46 PM
#662
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Or maybe they're just waiting for the next ES redesign. If there is no ES hybrid in the next generation I'll be pretty shocked.
05-06-09, 03:09 PM
#663
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Lack of a 4-cylinder? I mean I'm sure it'd be no big deal to slap a 4-cyl in the ES but maybe they think a 4-cyl ES is too low end, and a V6 hybrid just doesn't have much of a market (see Honda Accord Hybrid failure w/ 6-cyl and that was with cylinder deactivation, too).
Or maybe they're just waiting for the next ES redesign. If there is no ES hybrid in the next generation I'll be pretty shocked.
Or maybe they're just waiting for the next ES redesign. If there is no ES hybrid in the next generation I'll be pretty shocked.
05-06-09, 03:28 PM
#664
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every speech that mark templin makes at an auto show inplies that they have planned/plan on introducing 1 hybrid vehicle in the lexus line up every year. when he made the HS speech, he said "makes you wonder what we'll debut next year"
2005 RX400h
2006 GS450h
2007 LS600h
2008 RX450h
2009 HS250h
2005 RX400h
2006 GS450h
2007 LS600h
2008 RX450h
2009 HS250h
05-06-09, 04:25 PM
#665
Lexus Fanatic
The ES (though I'm not a big one for images) is, in fact, genenerally driven by an older, more conservative group of drivers that is rather set in their ways as far as driving habits go. They would probably have a difficult time adjusting to the sometimes silent idle (although the ES gas V6, of course, has an extremely smooth, quiet idle as it is), electric-motor-only, golf-cart-style starts, wierd CVT sensations, and flashing gauges/lights/needle motions that Hybrid instruments monitor. The Lexus 3-electric-motor Hybrid system, of course, is quite expensive and complex, and would probably raise Hybrid ES pricing up to levels that many of its core group of drivers would not want to pay, many of them being used to paying 35-40K for their new ES.
And that, IMO, explains why we aren't seeing hybrid Buick LaCrosse/Lucernes, the larger Cadillacs, Lincolns, Mercury Grand Marquis, or the more mainstream models of the Mercedes E and S-Classes....the conservatism of their core owner groups. Of course, that doesn't explain why Lexus does a Hybrid LS600H, a car that appeals to bank presidents, corporate CEO's, and well-heeled people in general, but perhaps (?) Lexus feels that LS600H buyers, despite being rather conservative automotively-speaking, are more interested in technology than the typical ES buyer.
05-06-09, 04:30 PM
#666
Lexus Fanatic
Lack of a 4-cylinder? I mean I'm sure it'd be no big deal to slap a 4-cyl in the ES but maybe they think a 4-cyl ES is too low end, and a V6 hybrid just doesn't have much of a market (see Honda Accord Hybrid failure w/ 6-cyl and that was with cylinder deactivation, too).
Or maybe they're just waiting for the next ES redesign. If there is no ES hybrid in the next generation I'll be pretty shocked.
Or maybe they're just waiting for the next ES redesign. If there is no ES hybrid in the next generation I'll be pretty shocked.
05-06-09, 07:51 PM
#667
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I hate to say it, but the Fusion grill looks better than the HS hands down.
Regardless if it's a first or not, that tacky bodykit tremendously detracts from the car as does the Corolla resemblance in both exterior and some interior panels. Toyota wants more differentiation between the Lexus and Toyota brands, but that will never happen if they keep approving such designs that are unfitting of the Lexus brand, and designs that look awfully similar to Toyota models. Hopefully Akio Toyoda gives a big kick to the rest of the board and instills some more passion within the company, particularly with sporty models and with better styling. Also adding better exterior and interior color combinations will go a long way.
The styling of the HS does nothing to move the brand forward.
Regardless if it's a first or not, that tacky bodykit tremendously detracts from the car as does the Corolla resemblance in both exterior and some interior panels. Toyota wants more differentiation between the Lexus and Toyota brands, but that will never happen if they keep approving such designs that are unfitting of the Lexus brand, and designs that look awfully similar to Toyota models. Hopefully Akio Toyoda gives a big kick to the rest of the board and instills some more passion within the company, particularly with sporty models and with better styling. Also adding better exterior and interior color combinations will go a long way.
The styling of the HS does nothing to move the brand forward.
The RX actually looks quite modern and overall a slight improvement over the gen 2 RX style-wise.
This HS just doesn't fit with the rest of the brand. Where exactly is the L-Finesse styling here? The rear end is quite flat and lacks any defining curves.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 05-06-09 at 07:55 PM.
05-06-09, 07:59 PM
#668
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i disagree.
besides being COMPLETELY different kinds of vehicle, no, none of them is a real looker. i think the new f-150 design is uglier than previous gen. but i'm biased, i like my wife's 04.
the middle explorer is the gaudy 'eddie bauer' version... the limited with monochrome color scheme and better grille looks better, but hey i own one so i'm biased.
and that navigator is just fugly.
Seriously..and these are any better?
the middle explorer is the gaudy 'eddie bauer' version... the limited with monochrome color scheme and better grille looks better, but hey i own one so i'm biased.
and that navigator is just fugly.
05-06-09, 09:16 PM
#669
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I'd have to disagree since I really think the 3RX is a step backward in exterior design. The body panels look droopy and flabsided compared to the previous. The interior is very nice, but the outside isn't so pleasant.
Sadly, 2D pics make the HS look boxy in comparison to the rest. L-Finesse styling is apparent in the details...exterior and interior. I think if everyone can get beyond the "Corolla" stigma of this car, there are a lot of positives attributes to this car. I would choose the HS over an ES350 or IS250 if I were in the market for an entry level lux sedan. It may warm up to some...maybe not. I like what this car has to offer so far.
Sadly, 2D pics make the HS look boxy in comparison to the rest. L-Finesse styling is apparent in the details...exterior and interior. I think if everyone can get beyond the "Corolla" stigma of this car, there are a lot of positives attributes to this car. I would choose the HS over an ES350 or IS250 if I were in the market for an entry level lux sedan. It may warm up to some...maybe not. I like what this car has to offer so far.
Point is, the 3RX has a very clean and sleek design that fits the rest of the lineup.
The HS on the other hand does not fit the rest of the lineup. The grill is awkward and not as good-looking as concept vehicles. There is NO reason for that tacky bodykit. No Lexus in history has had such a tacky body kit from the factory, so my question is *why* was this approved for the HS? I'm sure you agree Flip the body kit does not add to the car, and it detracts from the Lexus brand overall.
You would choose an HS over an IS250? Really? I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but the HS is FWD. It does have double wishbone rear suspension and it likely is sportier and handles better than the ES, but not the IS. Besides, the IS is due for a redesign soon.
Based on all the comments I've seen from Lexus owners/enthusiasts as well as other enthusiasts, the main issue people have with the HS is that horrid body kit which has a very tacked-on look to it. Just by taking the body kit off the HS would look better. I hope Toyota pays attention to this criticism and gets rid of the body kit accordingly.
If the HS was a Toyota model, I'd be fine with the tacky body kit but because the HS is a Lexus model, it must be held to much higher standards and there is absolutely no excuse in having such a badly integrated, tacky kit on a Lexus model.
05-06-09, 10:17 PM
#670
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There is NO reason for that tacky bodykit. No Lexus in history has had such a tacky body kit from the factory, so my question is *why* was this approved for the HS?
05-06-09, 11:18 PM
#671
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05-06-09, 11:39 PM
#672
I have been noticing the Ford Focus lately, as a result of the comparisons here...it looks bad, pinched in the front; the HS looks better, but the squared off headlights, a la Honda Accord, are unlike the more elegantly curved ones in the other Lexus models.
05-06-09, 11:59 PM
#673
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My opinion (for what little it is worth) on the reason why:
The ES (though I'm not a big one for images) is, in fact, genenerally driven by an older, more conservative group of drivers that is rather set in their ways as far as driving habits go. They would probably have a difficult time adjusting to the sometimes silent idle (although the ES gas V6, of course, has an extremely smooth, quiet idle as it is), electric-motor-only, golf-cart-style starts, wierd CVT sensations, and flashing gauges/lights/needle motions that Hybrid instruments monitor. The Lexus 3-electric-motor Hybrid system, of course, is quite expensive and complex, and would probably raise Hybrid ES pricing up to levels that many of its core group of drivers would not want to pay, many of them being used to paying 35-40K for their new ES.
And that, IMO, explains why we aren't seeing hybrid Buick LaCrosse/Lucernes, the larger Cadillacs, Lincolns, Mercury Grand Marquis, or the more mainstream models of the Mercedes E and S-Classes....the conservatism of their core owner groups. Of course, that doesn't explain why Lexus does a Hybrid LS600H, a car that appeals to bank presidents, corporate CEO's, and well-heeled people in general, but perhaps (?) Lexus feels that LS600H buyers, despite being rather conservative automotively-speaking, are more interested in technology than the typical ES buyer.
The ES (though I'm not a big one for images) is, in fact, genenerally driven by an older, more conservative group of drivers that is rather set in their ways as far as driving habits go. They would probably have a difficult time adjusting to the sometimes silent idle (although the ES gas V6, of course, has an extremely smooth, quiet idle as it is), electric-motor-only, golf-cart-style starts, wierd CVT sensations, and flashing gauges/lights/needle motions that Hybrid instruments monitor. The Lexus 3-electric-motor Hybrid system, of course, is quite expensive and complex, and would probably raise Hybrid ES pricing up to levels that many of its core group of drivers would not want to pay, many of them being used to paying 35-40K for their new ES.
And that, IMO, explains why we aren't seeing hybrid Buick LaCrosse/Lucernes, the larger Cadillacs, Lincolns, Mercury Grand Marquis, or the more mainstream models of the Mercedes E and S-Classes....the conservatism of their core owner groups. Of course, that doesn't explain why Lexus does a Hybrid LS600H, a car that appeals to bank presidents, corporate CEO's, and well-heeled people in general, but perhaps (?) Lexus feels that LS600H buyers, despite being rather conservative automotively-speaking, are more interested in technology than the typical ES buyer.
1. Lexus needs to be able to sell the HS hybrid all over the world. To my knowledge, Lexus does not sell the ES anywhere but North America
2. The HS must be priced lower than the ES and higher than the Toyota Prius, right in the middle between the two. With the HS likely orginating on Japan I forcast that the HS will likely be the same MSRP as the ES.
05-07-09, 06:27 AM
#674
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A couple outside our Dubai hotel :
Last edited by Gojirra99; 05-07-09 at 06:33 AM.
05-07-09, 07:56 AM
#675
Two other problems I have with this car:
1) The entire front fascia is plastic and chrome...there is no metal that seperates the grill from the headlights. Just a fat strip of chrome. Lexus needs to tone down the chrome IMO- the 3.5Gen GS with the headlights integrated into the chrome strip looks like a ridiculous afterthought and it seems like they have gone for a similar execution here. Also, the 3RX gets the chrome whiskers on either side of the grille that lead into the headlights. These details honestly look cheap and ridiculous.
2) The large greenhouse and chunky sides are probably what makes this car seem out of place in the Lexus lineup, even moreso than the body kit. The IS, ES, GS, and even LS have all gone to sleeker profiles, lower rooflines, and more organic curves. The HS has a large, Corolla-esque greenhouse with equally expansive sheetmetal on the doors. Add to that the Corolla-esque 6 inches of wheel gap and you would have to look twice to see that this wasn't a Toyota. I am not sure if the shape has anything to do with aerodynamics but when even the Prius is better looking, you know Lexus has F'ed up.
All in all, I just continue to be disappointed in this car- the design, the technology, and the overall execution. Someone else in another thread commented that Lexus continues to pour money into cars like the misfit HS, chubby ISc, and now a sub-IS car for other markets meanwhile the SC is practically fossilizing, the GS has been a relative fail, the GX sits dead on the vine, and they have NO coupes and the IS-F is their only exciting product. I just really don't agree with almost anything that Lexus has done in the last few years- IS and LS have been the two great products that have kept me interested. Other than that....not impressed.
1) The entire front fascia is plastic and chrome...there is no metal that seperates the grill from the headlights. Just a fat strip of chrome. Lexus needs to tone down the chrome IMO- the 3.5Gen GS with the headlights integrated into the chrome strip looks like a ridiculous afterthought and it seems like they have gone for a similar execution here. Also, the 3RX gets the chrome whiskers on either side of the grille that lead into the headlights. These details honestly look cheap and ridiculous.
2) The large greenhouse and chunky sides are probably what makes this car seem out of place in the Lexus lineup, even moreso than the body kit. The IS, ES, GS, and even LS have all gone to sleeker profiles, lower rooflines, and more organic curves. The HS has a large, Corolla-esque greenhouse with equally expansive sheetmetal on the doors. Add to that the Corolla-esque 6 inches of wheel gap and you would have to look twice to see that this wasn't a Toyota. I am not sure if the shape has anything to do with aerodynamics but when even the Prius is better looking, you know Lexus has F'ed up.
All in all, I just continue to be disappointed in this car- the design, the technology, and the overall execution. Someone else in another thread commented that Lexus continues to pour money into cars like the misfit HS, chubby ISc, and now a sub-IS car for other markets meanwhile the SC is practically fossilizing, the GS has been a relative fail, the GX sits dead on the vine, and they have NO coupes and the IS-F is their only exciting product. I just really don't agree with almost anything that Lexus has done in the last few years- IS and LS have been the two great products that have kept me interested. Other than that....not impressed.