HS250h Loaner...Gross
12-22-09, 09:18 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Getting an oil change from the dealership and they gave me a HS250h loaner...
I've never driven a hybrid, but I this thing is terrible in every aspect, if you ask me. For about the same price as an IS, i dont think the mileage difference is worth it, either. Just my $.02, and i cant wait to get my IS back after work!
I've never driven a hybrid, but I this thing is terrible in every aspect, if you ask me. For about the same price as an IS, i dont think the mileage difference is worth it, either. Just my $.02, and i cant wait to get my IS back after work!
My review on it. I accepted it for what it was and what its goal was for. I didn't give it expectations that it would never meet.
Its fantastic for what it is, for techies that want to be different, get some great MPG, keep Lexus luxury and have a great commanding view of the road. I don't expect it to sound or drive like my modified Lexus.The only thing "ghey" is bashing a vehicle without understanding it. Funny but some Euro fans think the IS is "ghey".
12-22-09, 09:32 PM
#17
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 0
Received 73 Likes
on
44 Posts
You're right, hybrids dont have to look like hybrids, which is why you can have the RXh, GSh, and LSh which still look very "unhybrid" like. But look at the prius. Albeit the 3rd gen is a pretty nice looker, the 2nd gen received lots of criticism and it still sold like hotcakes. Some people want their hybrids to look like hybrids
12-23-09, 05:36 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're right, hybrids dont have to look like hybrids, which is why you can have the RXh, GSh, and LSh which still look very "unhybrid" like. But look at the prius. Albeit the 3rd gen is a pretty nice looker, the 2nd gen received lots of criticism and it still sold like hotcakes. Some people want their hybrids to look like hybrids
It's gas mileage is only so so, it uses a modified Camry drivetrain which makes it even less special, and it's design is so derivative it doesn't look distinctively hybrid let alone distinctively "Lexus".
After seeing the fruit of all the money and development put into the 3rd gen Prius, seeing the HS in comparison makes the HS look like an after thought, probably just made to increase sales. Now if the HS had a unique drivetrain that was actually somewhat impressive and produced more power and more fuel economy, and if the design was so unique that it screamed hybrid even when seen from far away, then I wouldn't be so critical of the car, but to me it seems like a half assed attempt by Lexus
.
12-23-09, 06:56 PM
#19
After seeing the fruit of all the money and development put into the 3rd gen Prius, seeing the HS in comparison makes the HS look like an after thought, probably just made to increase sales. Now if the HS had a unique drivetrain that was actually somewhat impressive and produced more power and more fuel economy, and if the design was so unique that it screamed hybrid even when seen from far away, then I wouldn't be so critical of the car, but to me it seems like a half assed attempt by Lexus .
.Fact is, most people dont understand that HS has pretty much nothing to do with Prius. It is luxurious FWD mid size Lexus, based on european platform, with interior more luxurious than IS and ES and hybrid powertrain.
If they slapped different interior on Prius, called it an Lexus then people would cry in uproar.
If we compare it to IS250, they are about the same power, they even drive quite similary, IS looks better but HS has better quality and bigger interior, and real life economy that is up 25-30% better, especially when not on the highway.
Prius is vehicle that is going to sell 700,000 copies next year. HS will sell 45,000... difference is staggering.
I wish they made Avensis Hybrid and sold it here... other than poor premium JBL sound system, i cant find anything on avensis that is not better than IS...
12-29-09, 12:58 PM
#20
As to the HS specifically, I mostly agree with CJ. I think Lexus outdid themselves with the interior, and took the initiative in the luxury hybrid market (its also nice to see them design their dash with the exclusion of nav as a forethought). It’s a car which reaches out to a different consumer, and is packed with all the technology you could ask for. As a person who considered pulling the trigger on a Prius, I have no problems with driving a hybrid, though my sporty bias and affinity for tighter cockpits meant that my level of tolerance/compromise rested with the IS. My problem with the HS, is that its an extremely mediocre looking car at best. It does enough to separate itself from other similarly priced cars in its segment, but I can't say the L-finesse design that I've come to appreciate throughout the Lexus brand (and what turned me back on to Lexus), really carries over into this vehicle. I'm not asking that it look like a hybrid (though I actually think the 3rd gen Prius is pretty sharp), but it just looks like an amalgam of ideas that didn't quite mesh well together. Though I've yet to observe personal real-world numbers, the MPG could also be better. In general, while I do believe in the importance of function, I also believe in balance…and I don't think the cars current form really sells its significance enough.
01-01-10, 03:52 PM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm not sure what this is really saying. I think any hybrid car that is released will be compared to the Prius, regardless of any relationship. The Prius represents a bar for hybrids, as its near synonymous with the name, and so the HS250 will always owe a portion of its existence to that success (especially when created under the same umbrella). The major distinction most will realize, as you listed, will be the addition of luxury offered, which is what people come to expect (realized or not), when they see/hear Lexus. Any misunderstandings concerning its purpose or intentions can be traced directly to Toyota/Lexus, as they are responsible for marketing the cars.
As to the HS specifically, I mostly agree with CJ. I think Lexus outdid themselves with the interior, and took the initiative in the luxury hybrid market (its also nice to see them design their dash with the exclusion of nav as a forethought). It’s a car which reaches out to a different consumer, and is packed with all the technology you could ask for. As a person who considered pulling the trigger on a Prius, I have no problems with driving a hybrid, though my sporty bias and affinity for tighter cockpits meant that my level of tolerance/compromise rested with the IS. My problem with the HS, is that its an extremely mediocre looking car at best. It does enough to separate itself from other similarly priced cars in its segment, but I can't say the L-finesse design that I've come to appreciate throughout the Lexus brand (and what turned me back on to Lexus), really carries over into this vehicle. I'm not asking that it look like a hybrid (though I actually think the 3rd gen Prius is pretty sharp), but it just looks like an amalgam of ideas that didn't quite mesh well together. Though I've yet to observe personal real-world numbers, the MPG could also be better. In general, while I do believe in the importance of function, I also believe in balance…and I don't think the cars current form really sells its significance enough.
As to the HS specifically, I mostly agree with CJ. I think Lexus outdid themselves with the interior, and took the initiative in the luxury hybrid market (its also nice to see them design their dash with the exclusion of nav as a forethought). It’s a car which reaches out to a different consumer, and is packed with all the technology you could ask for. As a person who considered pulling the trigger on a Prius, I have no problems with driving a hybrid, though my sporty bias and affinity for tighter cockpits meant that my level of tolerance/compromise rested with the IS. My problem with the HS, is that its an extremely mediocre looking car at best. It does enough to separate itself from other similarly priced cars in its segment, but I can't say the L-finesse design that I've come to appreciate throughout the Lexus brand (and what turned me back on to Lexus), really carries over into this vehicle. I'm not asking that it look like a hybrid (though I actually think the 3rd gen Prius is pretty sharp), but it just looks like an amalgam of ideas that didn't quite mesh well together. Though I've yet to observe personal real-world numbers, the MPG could also be better. In general, while I do believe in the importance of function, I also believe in balance…and I don't think the cars current form really sells its significance enough.
01-02-10, 06:07 PM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01-07-10, 01:25 AM
#23
Pole Position
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol funny thread. i just got one for loaner today. was pretty excited to drive it and then i opened up the throttle... took like 10 seconds to get to 40 thought something was wrong with the car for a second haha. but jokes aside the car is super quiet, refined interior, nice user interface, and of course great gas mileage, nearly 2x better than my is350. but i got a need for speed and the hs certainly does not deliver in that department
01-07-10, 09:37 PM
#24
I had an HS25h loaner for a couple of days. Overall, I liked the car. But, I'm an electrical engineer and thus have a weakness for gadgets 
Observations:
* Exterior styling is not my thing, especially with the plasticky grill and silver taillights. I much prefer the ES - more elegant.
* Interior styling looks decent, if a bit cheap, due to decontenting. There's not enough wood; a wood steering wheel (like the JDM one has) would help tremendously. The center console box looks flimsy and is narrow, and lacks an interior light. "Jesus handles" are cheap - they don't flip up/down. Rear coat hooks are just plastic attachments to "Jesus handles". No lights in rear of cabin - just center dome light. Headlights are standard issue halogen projectors, not HID. (LED headlights are an option.) No smog sensor for climate system. Only front doors' exterior handles have keyless entry sensors and lock buttons. No puddle lamps on inside of rear doors (only on front doors). Front passenger seat lacks adjustable lumbar. No memory for front passenger seat. Cupholders are cheapy.
* The interior looks like that of a first generation model. It lacks the refinement of, say, the 2010 ES350.
* Comfort: The lower center of the seatback has a hard spot that pokes my lumbar area, and is thus not very comfortable. Definitely inferior to the ES. No seat cushion extender - a serious omission for a commuter car. The car seems narrow.
* Sun visors do not extend when flipped to the side window area. This means tall drivers with the seat slid back cannot block sun from side windows. Visors have a flimsy thin plastic piece that pulls out, but it and the visor sags down at an angle, allowing light above (and looking incredibly cheap).
* Standard stereo sounds superb - far better than the garbage in the ES350. Good interior lighting. Good ergonomics.
* Navigation system with haptic feedback joystick is fun to use, & HD makes it much faster than DVD based models. XM Traffic could be useful. Voice recognition works much better than that of my '07 ES350. Display is bigger than that of the ES. It speaks names of roads. Other than that, it's the same mediocre system Toyota/Lexus has used for years: Very few streets shown on screen have name labels, no indication of names of upcoming cross streets, limited detour capabilities, etc. In other words, it's just a cosmetic upgrade.
* Engine seems plenty peppy, unless in Eco mode. It's slightly noisier than that of my ES, but not much. Road noise is more pronounced on rough roads than in the ES. On highways, it's pretty quiet, and didn't seem to have wind noise. Braking is a bit grabby and takes getting used to. The hybrid CVT is much more enjoyable to drive than the ES' conventional transmission, as there are no jerky up/down shifts, late down shifts, etc. There is a slight lag before acceleration at times. Car is surprisingly fun to drive (but I'm used to the conservative ES).
* Very large diameter tires - will be expensive maintenance item.
* Rear seating area is cramped for tall people. I'm 6' and would not want to sit back there for more than an hour. The high seat cushion plus area under front seats for rear passengers' feet is helpful, though.
* Rear seats do not fold down. Trunk is smallish. Trunk lid does have interior grab handle for closing.
* Better body electronics compared to '07 ES. Dashboard clock auto sets based on GPS satellite info. Driver's buttons for passengers' windows are active even when passenger switch lockout is enabled. Driver seat can be configured to slide back when engine shut off allowing easier egress. Window motors slow as windows near closed position to eliminate thunk. Center, as well as outboard, dash vents have independent open/close *****. Does have puddle lamps on outside mirrors and footwell lights inside car.
* Cost: This thing gets expensive quickly. The saleswoman told me it's about $40K for the navigation system model, and $44K for the navigation + tech package (lane keep assist, heads-up display, etc.). The LED headlamps would add another $1K or so. Fully loaded, it exceeds a fully loaded ES350 in price and gets close in price to a base RX450h. I think they need to add a bit more refinement to the interior to justify the cost.
Observations:* Exterior styling is not my thing, especially with the plasticky grill and silver taillights. I much prefer the ES - more elegant.
* Interior styling looks decent, if a bit cheap, due to decontenting. There's not enough wood; a wood steering wheel (like the JDM one has) would help tremendously. The center console box looks flimsy and is narrow, and lacks an interior light. "Jesus handles" are cheap - they don't flip up/down. Rear coat hooks are just plastic attachments to "Jesus handles". No lights in rear of cabin - just center dome light. Headlights are standard issue halogen projectors, not HID. (LED headlights are an option.) No smog sensor for climate system. Only front doors' exterior handles have keyless entry sensors and lock buttons. No puddle lamps on inside of rear doors (only on front doors). Front passenger seat lacks adjustable lumbar. No memory for front passenger seat. Cupholders are cheapy.
* The interior looks like that of a first generation model. It lacks the refinement of, say, the 2010 ES350.
* Comfort: The lower center of the seatback has a hard spot that pokes my lumbar area, and is thus not very comfortable. Definitely inferior to the ES. No seat cushion extender - a serious omission for a commuter car. The car seems narrow.
* Sun visors do not extend when flipped to the side window area. This means tall drivers with the seat slid back cannot block sun from side windows. Visors have a flimsy thin plastic piece that pulls out, but it and the visor sags down at an angle, allowing light above (and looking incredibly cheap).
* Standard stereo sounds superb - far better than the garbage in the ES350. Good interior lighting. Good ergonomics.
* Navigation system with haptic feedback joystick is fun to use, & HD makes it much faster than DVD based models. XM Traffic could be useful. Voice recognition works much better than that of my '07 ES350. Display is bigger than that of the ES. It speaks names of roads. Other than that, it's the same mediocre system Toyota/Lexus has used for years: Very few streets shown on screen have name labels, no indication of names of upcoming cross streets, limited detour capabilities, etc. In other words, it's just a cosmetic upgrade.
* Engine seems plenty peppy, unless in Eco mode. It's slightly noisier than that of my ES, but not much. Road noise is more pronounced on rough roads than in the ES. On highways, it's pretty quiet, and didn't seem to have wind noise. Braking is a bit grabby and takes getting used to. The hybrid CVT is much more enjoyable to drive than the ES' conventional transmission, as there are no jerky up/down shifts, late down shifts, etc. There is a slight lag before acceleration at times. Car is surprisingly fun to drive (but I'm used to the conservative ES).
* Very large diameter tires - will be expensive maintenance item.
* Rear seating area is cramped for tall people. I'm 6' and would not want to sit back there for more than an hour. The high seat cushion plus area under front seats for rear passengers' feet is helpful, though.
* Rear seats do not fold down. Trunk is smallish. Trunk lid does have interior grab handle for closing.
* Better body electronics compared to '07 ES. Dashboard clock auto sets based on GPS satellite info. Driver's buttons for passengers' windows are active even when passenger switch lockout is enabled. Driver seat can be configured to slide back when engine shut off allowing easier egress. Window motors slow as windows near closed position to eliminate thunk. Center, as well as outboard, dash vents have independent open/close *****. Does have puddle lamps on outside mirrors and footwell lights inside car.
* Cost: This thing gets expensive quickly. The saleswoman told me it's about $40K for the navigation system model, and $44K for the navigation + tech package (lane keep assist, heads-up display, etc.). The LED headlamps would add another $1K or so. Fully loaded, it exceeds a fully loaded ES350 in price and gets close in price to a base RX450h. I think they need to add a bit more refinement to the interior to justify the cost.
Last edited by YotaCarFan; 01-07-10 at 09:45 PM.
01-08-10, 05:58 AM
#25
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had an HS25h loaner for a couple of days. Overall, I liked the car. But, I'm an electrical engineer and thus have a weakness for gadgets Observations:
* Exterior styling is not my thing, especially with the plasticky grill and silver taillights. I much prefer the ES - more elegant.
* Interior styling looks decent, if a bit cheap, due to decontenting. There's not enough wood; a wood steering wheel (like the JDM one has) would help tremendously. The center console box looks flimsy and is narrow, and lacks an interior light. "Jesus handles" are cheap - they don't flip up/down. Rear coat hooks are just plastic attachments to "Jesus handles". No lights in rear of cabin - just center dome light. Headlights are standard issue halogen projectors, not HID. (LED headlights are an option.) No smog sensor for climate system. Only front doors' exterior handles have keyless entry sensors and lock buttons. No puddle lamps on inside of rear doors (only on front doors). Front passenger seat lacks adjustable lumbar. No memory for front passenger seat. Cupholders are cheapy.
* The interior looks like that of a first generation model. It lacks the refinement of, say, the 2010 ES350.
* Comfort: The lower center of the seatback has a hard spot that pokes my lumbar area, and is thus not very comfortable. Definitely inferior to the ES. No seat cushion extender - a serious omission for a commuter car. The car seems narrow.
* Sun visors do not extend when flipped to the side window area. This means tall drivers with the seat slid back cannot block sun from side windows. Visors have a flimsy thin plastic piece that pulls out, but it and the visor sags down at an angle, allowing light above (and looking incredibly cheap).
* Standard stereo sounds superb - far better than the garbage in the ES350. Good interior lighting. Good ergonomics.
* Navigation system with haptic feedback joystick is fun to use, & HD makes it much faster than DVD based models. XM Traffic could be useful. Voice recognition works much better than that of my '07 ES350. Display is bigger than that of the ES. It speaks names of roads. Other than that, it's the same mediocre system Toyota/Lexus has used for years: Very few streets shown on screen have name labels, no indication of names of upcoming cross streets, limited detour capabilities, etc. In other words, it's just a cosmetic upgrade.
* Engine seems plenty peppy, unless in Eco mode. It's slightly noisier than that of my ES, but not much. Road noise is more pronounced on rough roads than in the ES. On highways, it's pretty quiet, and didn't seem to have wind noise. Braking is a bit grabby and takes getting used to. The hybrid CVT is much more enjoyable to drive than the ES' conventional transmission, as there are no jerky up/down shifts, late down shifts, etc. There is a slight lag before acceleration at times. Car is surprisingly fun to drive (but I'm used to the conservative ES).
* Very large diameter tires - will be expensive maintenance item.
* Rear seating area is cramped for tall people. I'm 6' and would not want to sit back there for more than an hour. The high seat cushion plus area under front seats for rear passengers' feet is helpful, though.
* Rear seats do not fold down. Trunk is smallish. Trunk lid does have interior grab handle for closing.
* Better body electronics compared to '07 ES. Dashboard clock auto sets based on GPS satellite info. Driver's buttons for passengers' windows are active even when passenger switch lockout is enabled. Driver seat can be configured to slide back when engine shut off allowing easier egress. Window motors slow as windows near closed position to eliminate thunk. Center, as well as outboard, dash vents have independent open/close *****. Does have puddle lamps on outside mirrors and footwell lights inside car.
* Cost: This thing gets expensive quickly. The saleswoman told me it's about $40K for the navigation system model, and $44K for the navigation + tech package (lane keep assist, heads-up display, etc.). The LED headlamps would add another $1K or so. Fully loaded, it exceeds a fully loaded ES350 in price and gets close in price to a base RX450h. I think they need to add a bit more refinement to the interior to justify the cost.
Observations:* Exterior styling is not my thing, especially with the plasticky grill and silver taillights. I much prefer the ES - more elegant.
* Interior styling looks decent, if a bit cheap, due to decontenting. There's not enough wood; a wood steering wheel (like the JDM one has) would help tremendously. The center console box looks flimsy and is narrow, and lacks an interior light. "Jesus handles" are cheap - they don't flip up/down. Rear coat hooks are just plastic attachments to "Jesus handles". No lights in rear of cabin - just center dome light. Headlights are standard issue halogen projectors, not HID. (LED headlights are an option.) No smog sensor for climate system. Only front doors' exterior handles have keyless entry sensors and lock buttons. No puddle lamps on inside of rear doors (only on front doors). Front passenger seat lacks adjustable lumbar. No memory for front passenger seat. Cupholders are cheapy.
* The interior looks like that of a first generation model. It lacks the refinement of, say, the 2010 ES350.
* Comfort: The lower center of the seatback has a hard spot that pokes my lumbar area, and is thus not very comfortable. Definitely inferior to the ES. No seat cushion extender - a serious omission for a commuter car. The car seems narrow.
* Sun visors do not extend when flipped to the side window area. This means tall drivers with the seat slid back cannot block sun from side windows. Visors have a flimsy thin plastic piece that pulls out, but it and the visor sags down at an angle, allowing light above (and looking incredibly cheap).
* Standard stereo sounds superb - far better than the garbage in the ES350. Good interior lighting. Good ergonomics.
* Navigation system with haptic feedback joystick is fun to use, & HD makes it much faster than DVD based models. XM Traffic could be useful. Voice recognition works much better than that of my '07 ES350. Display is bigger than that of the ES. It speaks names of roads. Other than that, it's the same mediocre system Toyota/Lexus has used for years: Very few streets shown on screen have name labels, no indication of names of upcoming cross streets, limited detour capabilities, etc. In other words, it's just a cosmetic upgrade.
* Engine seems plenty peppy, unless in Eco mode. It's slightly noisier than that of my ES, but not much. Road noise is more pronounced on rough roads than in the ES. On highways, it's pretty quiet, and didn't seem to have wind noise. Braking is a bit grabby and takes getting used to. The hybrid CVT is much more enjoyable to drive than the ES' conventional transmission, as there are no jerky up/down shifts, late down shifts, etc. There is a slight lag before acceleration at times. Car is surprisingly fun to drive (but I'm used to the conservative ES).
* Very large diameter tires - will be expensive maintenance item.
* Rear seating area is cramped for tall people. I'm 6' and would not want to sit back there for more than an hour. The high seat cushion plus area under front seats for rear passengers' feet is helpful, though.
* Rear seats do not fold down. Trunk is smallish. Trunk lid does have interior grab handle for closing.
* Better body electronics compared to '07 ES. Dashboard clock auto sets based on GPS satellite info. Driver's buttons for passengers' windows are active even when passenger switch lockout is enabled. Driver seat can be configured to slide back when engine shut off allowing easier egress. Window motors slow as windows near closed position to eliminate thunk. Center, as well as outboard, dash vents have independent open/close *****. Does have puddle lamps on outside mirrors and footwell lights inside car.
* Cost: This thing gets expensive quickly. The saleswoman told me it's about $40K for the navigation system model, and $44K for the navigation + tech package (lane keep assist, heads-up display, etc.). The LED headlamps would add another $1K or so. Fully loaded, it exceeds a fully loaded ES350 in price and gets close in price to a base RX450h. I think they need to add a bit more refinement to the interior to justify the cost.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
