Canesguy

Agreed. They are only comparable in that they are both problems for the manufacturer and us the buyers.

acheparev

What does this mean for those of us that have a lease and there is no fix for the issue? Will they just replace my car with a new "fixed" version? I'm not too worried as a rear end collision at 50mph is not something that is too frequent, but it's still a possibility.

moolman

I'm sure they will figure out a fix, even if they have to take apart the car and put a steel plate in there, it's probably cheaper than buying back all the cars.

I am so glad I decided to lease the car. I'm not worried about getting rear ended at 50mph or anything like that, it could very well be that this happened to one car and it just happened to be the one they tested, so just bad luck. I'm sure it can happen to other cars too in the right situation.

I know I will be turning in the car at the end of lease not buying it out like I did for my RX350.

In general though, I thought resale on this car would be low, besides these recalls, when the lithium ion batteries supposedly come out in 2012-2014, it will increase gas mileage by a good amount.

acheparev

Well, the weird thing is, if you look at Edmunds, the HS250h has the highest resale value of any car in it's class or any Lexus for that matter. For example, the HS residual is 62% for a 3 year lease and 55% for a GS.

Canesguy

That's because this issue hasn't had its effect, yet .

moolman

Lease residuals have nothing to do with true resale values. Have you seen the high residuals that BMW's get sometimes it's rediculous. On my HS lease I had a residual of 62% but then it was around 68% a couple of months ago. The reason for these high residuals is because the HS is not selling at all. I've seen so many on the lots. My GS that I lease 3 years ago had a residual of 52% for comparison but I think a lot of that has to do with the car not selling rather than a true residual. But then again Lexus does under estimate their residuals. My RX350 that I bought at lease end was worth way more than the residual so I had to buy it.

tigmd99

From Toyota website:
Toyota Files Noncompliance Information Report on Certain 2010 Lexus HS 250h Vehicles
TORRANCE, Calif., June 25, 2010 – Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today filed a Noncompliance Information Report (NCIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), informing the agency of the company’s intent to conduct a voluntary safety recall of potentially 17,000 2010 model year Lexus HS 250h vehicles to address a compliance issue with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 301.

As part of its annual compliance testing program, the NHTSA recently conducted a test of the 2010 model year HS 250h. The test involved striking the vehicle with a deformable barrier from the rear at approximately 50 mph. The vehicle is struck by a moving deformable barrier with a 70 percent overlap. As part of the test, the vehicle was then rotated on its longitudinal axis incrementally to each successive increment of 90 degrees. During the rotation, the vehicle exhibited fuel spillage that exceeded the requirement in the standard.

During vehicle development, Lexus tested the HS 250h using the same protocol and found the vehicles to comply fully with the FMVSS 301. Lexus is currently working to identify the reason for the different test results and the cause of this noncompliance.

“Even though our own testing of the Lexus HS 250h shows full compliance with federal fuel system integrity standards, we are working intensely to duplicate the noncompliance issue that the NHTSA identified and to determine the reason behind the different test results,” said Steve St. Angelo, Toyota chief quality officer for North America.

At the present time, Lexus has not identified a remedy to address this issue, but it is working hard to do so promptly and will notify owners as soon as one is developed. Until then, as required by federal law, dealers will not deliver any new vehicles in their inventory that are covered by this NCIR until remedied.

Detailed information about this recall is available through Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800-25 LEXUS or 1-800-255-3987 or at www.lexus.com/recall.

mmarshall

The HS250 is being recalled over a possible fuel-tank-leakage issue in rear-impacts. While, of course, fuel-tank safety is of paramount importance in a rear-end crash (particularly with a hybrid like the HS, where a severe rear-impact could rupture the battery-pack as well and produce fuel-igniting sparks), it seems to me like the 50 MPH issue may (?) be overkill...I think Federal regs only require a 35-MPH impact. Of course, if they can certify the tank to 50 MPH, so much the better.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/25/b...-fuel-leaka%2F

Back in the 1970s, the Ford Pinto was the focus of many headlines due to a fuel tank issue which caused excessive amounts of gasoline to leak during a rear-end collision. Now, three decades later, Lexus is having a similar problem with its HS250h hybrid, and has filed a report with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to issue a voluntary recall of these vehicles. Up to 17,000 of the luxury hybrids are affected.

In the case of the HS, excessive fuel leakage occurred during rear-end collisions at speeds of 50 miles per hour. We don't need to remind you about the dangers of excessive fuel spillage, but let's just say that the end result can be very, very bad.

As of this writing, Lexus has not advised NHTSA about what steps will be taken to fix the defective HS models. Make the jump for the full details.

tigmd99

The thing is that IF OTHER cars pass this test, then why can't the HS?? I doubt that NHTSA went out of their way to ram the HS at higher speed than other cars they test. Lexus knew about this test...what went wrong? If this happened on a Lexus SC430, then i can understand because it is an old design model...but this is plain stupid to happen on a new design. I am anxiously awaiting to see if they tested the Prius because the Prius and HS apparently shares the same platform.

BTW, NHTSA is the government branch that sets the federal regulation i believe.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Look,it comes down to never buy a brand new vehicle model in it's first year.
There's usually bugs that the next year's model have solved.

acheparev

Do other governments do the sames tests as the US? Has this test been performed by anyone else besides Toyota and the NHTSA? Toyota is claiming they performed the same test and their test met government regulations. I wonder if it's just a fluke. I'm sure that if you hit any 100 cars at 50mph, one of them will exhibit excessive fuel leakage. Maybe the car the NHTSA tested was just that one car.

mmarshall

Sorry if I'm a little late posting the recall, guys...or if you were already aware of it. I did a CL search for the subject first, but it didn't come up with anything.

ST430

Did anyone stop to read the fine print?

"The test involved striking the vehicle with a deformable barrier from the rear at approximately 50 mph. The vehicle is struck by a moving deformable barrier with a 70 percent overlap. As part of the test, the vehicle was then rotated on its longitudinal axis incrementally to each successive increment of 90 degrees.“

In other words, you have to get struck behind at 50+mph then flip the car over several times before a set amount of fuel is leaked. The chances of this happening happening as described is probably greater than getting in a plane crash. Note that the federal standard allows certain amount of fuel to leak, but the HS250h exceeds that, albeit it doesn't say by how much.....hmmm.

Magellan55

Whether this is a real issue or not, it will certainly affect resale value unless they find a fix. This isn't Consumer Reports doing some wacky test only they do, this is the Feds doing a routine test they've done for a few decades now.

tigmd99

Well, how do you know at what point during the incremental rotation did the fuel leak excessively in the HS?? As far as we know, the fuel leak may have happened BEFORE the longitudinal rotation?? For NHTSA to report this, i am sure that either an excessive amount of fuel leak happened or that the fuel leaked too early in the crash. I know that we all want to sweep this under the rug, but for NHTSA to publicly report this AND Lexus to stop selling and do a major recall, it has to be something signifiicant. (And remember, NHTSA is not Consumer Reports...so, for them to report this, it is a big deal!)