Magellan55

OK, I thought it was understood that we were comparing diesels and hybrids of equivalent performance. The Prius is anemic compared to the VW TDI - a more fair comparison is to the HS, TCH, or Fusion. I wonder if they could hit 50 mpg on cruise control @ 70 mph like the TDI. My own observations in the HS @ 70 mph is around 40 mpg.

Interesting data in those links however - shows the Prius is still getting over 50 mpg at 70 mph, which should dispel the myth that hybrids get lousy mileage at high speed. Given the TDI gets closer to the Prius as speed increases, it also makes me wonder at what speed the TDI overtakes the Prius in mpg - probably higher than you can legally drive in the US.

tigmd99

Actually, the VW Jetta/Golf TDI is about Prius size...and thus, was the obvious competitor to Prius in those two comparisions. Fusion, camry, and HS are midsize sedans i believe.

Magellan55

Size alone doesn't make a good comparison - besides, the Prius is EPA rated a midsize car, with about the same room inside (or more) as the HS. You wouldn't compare the BMW 335i or IS350 with the Corolla just because they are the same size would you?

Though I understand what they were doing - taking the best of the hybrids and diesels out there that were reasonably priced and going head-to-head. It's just that the Prius and Insight sacrifice all to get top mpg, while the Golf/Jetta TDI (and HS, Fusion, TCH) attempt to deliver an overall nice car to drive that also gets good gas mileage.

So yeah, if mpg is your only concern, nothing beats the Prius even on the highway. But most people don't buy a car just for mpg, especially when the difference between 40 mpg and 50 mpg is only 5 gallons a month in fuel (1000 miles). The marginal returns just aren't worth what you have to give up in the Prius for most people. I have a hard enough time passing on two-lane roads in my HS - I can't imagine what it must be like trying to pass a lettuce truck in a Prius.

tigmd99

You be surprise at what the Prius can do on the highway. Prius Level V can surprise people too with decent handling! (Contrary to popular belief, Prius V has different shocks and springs than other Prius.) I don't know...my Prius V rides better than TCH and Fusion. I testdrove both TCH and Fusion quite a bit before buying the Prius. Actually, i leaned toward Fusion and TCH due to it's bigger size and heavier curb weight (for crash protection reasons). I never considered the HS because i thought that it was way overpriced for what you get...and then getting rape at the dealership every single oil change. I did not feel that the HS was that much different in terms of ride than my Prius V...i had a loaner HS to play around with. Maybe, i am sure that the handling in the HS is better, but i did not notice it much. I did notice that it did ride better than TCH (too soft!).

I don't know what i gave up in the Prius vs. HS. My Prius has better stereo system than most HS system, not named Mark levinson. I have more technology than most HS not costing north of $45,000. The only thing that i miss on the Prius is memory driver's seat. That's it for me. And likely, my resale value will be way ahead of any HS. So, what did i give up? Now, the TCH gives me more trouble justifying the Prius, simply because the overall package is pretty good (except the soft handling, but i am ok with this in my old age).

Magellan55

I've heard the Prius with sport suspension (Level V on current gen, Touring on previous gen) was the one to get if you want a good handling car.

My main concern with the Prius over the HS is lack of HP. 0-60 is about 2 seconds slower - makes a big difference especially when the HS is already too slow itself. It's pretty sad when I have to borrow my wife's Odyssey when I want to feel some torque and do spirited driving :-(

Stereo and gadgets were not factors at all for me - a car to me is for driving, not a moving living room. But I'm in the minority I know.

rajeev6

Well - I'll put in my 2 cents too - number one for me was getting a Lexus. I was driving Camry for last 15 years and wanted to get into a Lexus 10 years ago - but then I got married and didn't have money
The decision for me was between HS and ES - and our 2 green daughters made it easy - hybrid.

After driving it for more than 2 months, I now feel that hybrid is the way to go - no matter whether its diesel of gasoline - every time I drive my wife's Acura MDX (300hp -21mpg ), I'm bothered by the traditional engine and transmission technology it uses - not able to save gas when going downhill, not being able to regenerate energy when slowing down.....

On power, my previous Camry V6 was 190hp and this one is too - at least on paper but as someone else said earlier, it feels like 50hp in ECO mode. Power mode is definitely better when you need to pass another vehicle.

tigmd99

Actually, according to most tests, the HS is about 1 second faster than Prius (9 vs. 10 seconds). And for me, i have a long commute...thus, stereo system is quite important. And of course, the safety technology (adaptive cruise, PCS, LED headlights) are vital for me. LED headlights were actually the main reason i got Prius over Camry because i drive in the middle of the night on more than a few occasions...and my highways are very dark at night with all sorts of junk (tires, crowbars, etc) laying around on the lanes!

CurryPot

I am enjoying the posts on rationalizing your purchases. Why? Because trying to rationalize the purchase of a car is like arguing with a dining table. It makes no sense and is pointless.

Canesguy

I am glad that you like your Prius. I own both cars and although I agree the Prius is a very satisfying car to own, but I storngely disagree with you. The JBL stereo of the Prius is NOT better than that in the HS (non-ML or ML), and by a long shot. The V model you have has all the Prius tech. "bells and whistles" but that doesn't make a Prius per se, better than the HS. The quality and premium feel of the HS trumps, and for the most part, justifies its price premium over the Prius, IMHO. By-the-way, the HS's 0-60 is around 8.2, compared to over 10 for the Prius. Overall, you still get what you pay for.....

(BTW, please check your armpits. You may need a little anti-troll spray, at least around here .)

Magellan55

I'll trust Motor Trend, which did a side-by-side comparison of the Prius and HS here:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html

HS 0-60 was 8.1 sec, 2010 Prius was 10.1 sec. I know comparing 0-60 times on two econo-cars is like seeing two 80-year old guys compete for chicks at the beach :-), but I was just making the point that my main issue with a Prius for me is lack of passing power - my cutoff when I was shopping was 8 sec 0-60. I'm sure most Prius owners could care less about that, and that's fine for them - that's why they make different cars for different buyers. There's also more subjective issues for me with the interior/dash (same complaint about the Civic and Accord dashes) which to me make the Prius look more like a toy inside than a car.

RXSF

so why isnt there a diesel hybrid again?

CurryPot

"The problem all along has been cost. Most analysts believe that diesel hybrids will double the incremental cost of an advanced fuel-efficient car—but not the benefit. Hybrids and diesels—used alone rather than in tandem—have remained niche technologies largely because of price tags beyond the reach of a real mainstream market. Combining the systems would send costs even higher."


http://www.matternetwork.com/2010/1/...sel-hybrid.cfm

LexFather

Exactly.

What tests are these?
Lexus HS 0-60 in 8.4 seconds
http://www.lexus.com/models/HSh/deta...l#JPerformance

Prius 0-60 in 9.8 seconds
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...ore-Efficient/

C&D HS 250 8.4 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

C&D Prius 10 secondshttp://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/c4df488aab8502ae1efd564bc913ca03.pdf

tigmd99

How about Edmunds Insideline? I think that the HS got 8.7. So, i stand corrected that it is less than 2 seconds faster. Thanks 1sicklex for posting those tests.

As for the interior, well, each one of us have different tastes. The HS is not exactly Lexus standard either, esp. given its asking price. And we have seen, the Lexus HS does not exactly bring more safety to the table either with the average roof strength testing and the Pinto-like rear end collision issue. Resale value will not be pretty. For me, if i had wanted a Lexus in that price range, then i would have gotten an ES350...because it looks like a Lexus (not Corolla), roomier, higher quality interior, and is option-for-option either cheaper or the same price as HS. Since i drive on the highway most of the time, the fuel economy difference is not all that great.

YMMV, magellan55...since you like to compare, you need to look at what MT got: 0.82g with a Prius V...while the HS 0.79g.

tigmd99

You can thank 1sicklex for pointing this link out...here is the quote in the link:

"We’d Rather Have a Prius (There, We Said It)

Lexus claims that a not-insignificant 60 percent of entry-luxury customers would consider a hybrid if it were available. If that is the truth, this car should sell reasonably well. Still, it’s hard to say that the HS250h does the hybrid thing—i.e., get great mileage and make splashy green statements—as well as the Prius. Nor does the HS250h do the luxury thing as well as other Lexuses. It is less practical than the Prius while returning exactly as much driving satisfaction—which is to say very little—all without the green halo effect that has made the Prius the favorite of the environmentally inclined. Indeed, if the HS250h isn’t going to drive any better than the Prius, we’d rather have the mileage—and the lower monthly payment—of a Prius instead."


Yup, thanks for taking this thread into Prius vs. HS...i like it.