laserbot

To replace my recently totaled 2015 GS 350, I just ordered a 2014 GS 450h with under 70k miles on it from an online retailer. It all looks great from carfax, etc., and I'm not worried about the condition--I'll take it to the local dealership within the window to make sure all is good on that front.

However, I am starting to get anxiety about the hybrid battery replacement since that's pretty pricey.

Anyone have general ideas of the battery life on these things? I know the mileage is pretty low on the car and these generally go 150k miles without an issue, but I'm concerned about the age since the car is nearly 10 years old at this point. Spending another $6-8k for a battery replacement in a year or two will make me super sad since I wasn't ready to replace my GS 350 anyway, but kind of had to do it in an impulse due to a (non-fault) accident.

Lwerewolf

Varies. The 4th gen (i.e. yours) should be way better than the 3rd gen in this regard. Still, nobody can tell you how long it'll "last". You can do a general estimate of the condition with Techstream or some other app that looks at "block" voltages (block = 2 modules = 12 cells) - the codes generally trip when the battery ECU detects a difference of >= 1.2v between blocks (~1.2v is the nominal cell voltage). A max. difference of 0.2-0.4v when the battery is almost depleted (i.e. right before the engine starts up and force charges it) and under load (AC on full cold & all that, could also leave it in D with the handbrake on to load it up even more if there's a "manual" "hand"(foot)brake on the 4GS). Anything in between = your call.

6-8k sounds a bit extreme for a hybrid battery, it's 40modules (vs. 28 on a Ni-MH Prius). There are various alternatives that I'd look into before venturing down that route. I did mine with 40 new modules from crashed (practically brand new) hybrids about 5 years ago, but I'm not in the US. Not saying that the 4GS uses the same modules as the Prius (the 3GS does), you'll have to look all that up yourself if you want to go down that route.

Anyways, wouldn't worry about it that much.

laserbot

I'll settle for this and just relax and wait for my new friend to arrive.

bclexus

In my opinion there is no need at all being concerned with the age of the traction battery. The hybrid-related components, which includes the traction battery, has a 8 year - 100,000 mile warranty. I think the age is probably less of a factor than the mileage. I foresee the traction battery lasting at least 200k miles which translates the age to be at least 16 years. Will you still have your GS 450h when it is 16 years old in 2031? Will you still want a 16 year-old car in 2031 with its outdated technology and features?

I suspect there will be cost-saving options to refresh the traction battery for people with old hybrid and EV vehicles that want to keep then running. I'd be far more concerned about keeping the car out of being an accident victim and hoping all the electronics continue to work over the coming 8-10 years. You and I both know it is highly unlikely either one of us will still have our GS 450h at 200k miles or when our car is 16 years old. People need to get over the idea or view that they'll keep a car forever. It never happens quite like people envision it will.

Hues10

Have a 2013 so it is 10 years old now. I have had it for 4 years myself, but alas, only 68k miles on it in total with only 12.5k of mine. At that rate, to get 100k more miles on it, I will have to drive it for 32 more years before I worry about the battery. So if you see a 90 year old driving a 2013 GSH in the year 2055, that is me. Please wave.

bclexus

@Hues10 :

Lwerewolf

It's not age or mileage. It's a multitude of factors. If you generally want it to last as long as possible - keep it cool (the battery is cooled by the cabin air, so keep the AC on, 21deg. C-ish, don't leave the car out in scorching heat, so on and so forth). The degradation mechanism is like ever other Ni-MH battery out there - generally speaking, electrolyte loss (due to, say, heat >> pressure >> venting), internal resistance increase (deposits that may or may not be reabsorbed into the electrolyte under certain conditions), more of both (due to the heat).

There are plenty of examples of prius taxis running on their original battery (& not only) way longer than they're supposed to. Plenty of examples of cars that have had a battery replaced too. Keep a "rainy day" fund and don't worry about it too much. Get techstream and/or obdlink (or whatever other elm-like adapter is good nowadays) and check/monitor if you're worried.

703

Just put some rainy day funds for it. For Battery or other things that can go wrong.

most think battery is the expensive thing, try replacing an abs actuator lol.

Zanew

I also have a 4th gen gs450h FSport. Before I purchased I spoke to a hybrid battery firm. The guy said the Toyota based stuff is great and not to worry as it is designed around 250k Kms. The batteries are modular too so if one cell goes you just replace that.. mine is 10 years old and absolutely fine with 118k Kms on it. (Sorry we are not in miles here!)

Hues10

I am interested to see where the EV market goes one day. Do they get to the 500 miles range before a charge needed for a reasonable price of say $50k or is that economically not practicable? I know people say that if your commute is 50 miles or less per day, you do not need much more range than 250 miles. Guess it is like having the $1200 cellphone with the great camera that you will never use. You have it if you want it thinking. For now, I will stick with my 1 mile range on the GS and be happy with it.

bclexus

Yeah, I wish the GS 450h was capable of traveling a decent number of miles at a reasonable speed in EV Mode. That is the one and only drawback I have. It's too bad there's not a modification to make that wish come true. Seems likely it could be done if only the traction battery had more oomph to it...

I appreciate the way the GS 450h traction battery adds power in combination with the ICE and also how it helps save fuel, but for it to really stand out in current-day EV technology offerings, it definitely falls short. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy it.

I too am interested to see where the EV market takes us in the near future.

Tclark502

I would not count on any of these packs lasting longer than 15 years when you're planning replacement costs. Battery cells degrade over time as well as through charge/discharge cycles, and the design life of a high-quality NiMH cell is only 10 years. At year 12, I'd definitely start putting money aside to replace the cells, ideally with a lithium upgrade. My original HV pack is 11 years old with 130k miles and still performing great, but your mileage may vary.

lockedlex

The question is... if the traction battery dies.. does the car too? Or would it still run and get you around w/o a CEL? But the battery itself if quite accessible and from a friend's experience could be rebuilt for less than 800 by a reputable company (swapping out only bad cells or just replacing it with a rebuilt unit).

Hues10

I am not an expert, but once the hybrid battery dies, the car is dead, as in it becomes a Nova, or no go. The technical reason is beyond my knowledge, but something akin to the battery, transmission, ICE, and electric motor are all tied in together. One goes, the car shuts down. At least I have read somewhere that if your car doesn't start (not from 12v battery problem), have the car towed to the dealership as it is DOA. So I will turn it around, let's say the engine "blows" while your are driving, does the Hybrid battery allow you to drive it for the last mile or two, or does the car shut down as well? Not that I ever want to find out, just hypothetical.

Im2bz2p345

I think it's very rare for the traction battery to die completely.. the individual cells typically degrade, but it's not like one day you're fine and the next day you wouldn't be able to start your car because your entire battery pack died. I'd imagine there would be signs to watch out (i.e. decreased efficiency) and/or dash lights that would appear before then.

Btw - check your friend requests on here; I try to add everyone that owns a 4GSh.

~ im2bz2p345