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Hybrid TechnologyUnique topics related to the 2023 up RX model hybrid drivetrain and other features/options found only on the hybrid models. Please use the main forum for discussion about shared components with other fifth generation RX models.
That is correct. Even though there are reserves battery power at “0%” charge, this reserve is not used for HP. When your car switches to Hybrid Mode, you only have 246HP on tap. The 306HP is combined HP with the electric motors.
What happens when I switch the car manually to hybrid mode while still having > 0 % EV-only range or power ? Does it still have 246 HP on tap, even though the traction battery is charged, to say, 85 % (i.e. anything above 30 %) ?
If the answer is that only 246 HP is available in manually-switched HV mode, even with > 30 % charge in the traction battery, then the 306 HP claim in the specs seems misleading. The latter because the 306 HP claim/available is then only truly available for the 37 - 40 mile range the car has with > 30 % traction battery charge - rather than for the entire range afforded by a full tank of gas + full traction battery charge.
Based on my observations in Dr Prius, full power is available in Hybrid Mode when EV range is still left. I have never made observations of full throttle power draw when there is no EV range left, but I do know that some power is still drawn from the battery when no EV range is left, while accelerating, so one is certainly not limited to only the power available from the ICE.
What happens when I switch the car manually to hybrid mode while still having > 0 % EV-only range or power ? Does it still have 246 HP on tap, even though the traction battery is charged, to say, 85 % (i.e. anything above 30 %) ?
If the answer is that only 246 HP is available in manually-switched HV mode, even with > 30 % charge in the traction battery, then the 306 HP claim in the specs seems misleading. The latter because the 306 HP claim/available is then only truly available for the 37 - 40 mile range the car has with > 30 % traction battery charge - rather than for the entire range afforded by a full tank of gas + full traction battery charge.
From what I have read...
The 4 cylinder engine in the 350H and 450H+ is rated at 180HP. With batteries, the 350H is rated at 246HP with 66HP coming from electric assist as available. The 450H, when combining hybrid battery and PHEV battery capacity you go from 180HP to 306HP which is an additional 126 HP. I suspect 66HP coming from the standard hybrid battery like the 350H and an additional 60HP coming from added battery capacity the 450H+ offers.
I suspect the 450H+ loses 60HP when the PHEV battery is run down to zero percent which drops it down to the 350H rating of 246 HP give or take. I am not sure the PHEV battery even works except when on all electric power. Is there an option to use the PHEV capacity to assist the ICE engine or is it dedicated to strictly EV driving? If so, that would affect my assumptions.
What happens when I switch the car manually to hybrid mode while still having > 0 % EV-only range or power ? Does it still have 246 HP on tap, even though the traction battery is charged, to say, 85 % (i.e. anything above 30 %) ?
If the answer is that only 246 HP is available in manually-switched HV mode, even with > 30 % charge in the traction battery, then the 306 HP claim in the specs seems misleading. The latter because the 306 HP claim/available is then only truly available for the 37 - 40 mile range the car has with > 30 % traction battery charge - rather than for the entire range afforded by a full tank of gas + full traction battery charge.
I believe so. Have you tried changing the car to CHG Mode? You can hear the hybrid engine kick in and power is reduced. You can also hear and feel the brake regen working. Also the 30% traction battery is noted in the lower blue section of the battery gauge which in the manual indicates that is when you can no longer drive in EV Mode (0 miles available on EV Mode).
So I just got a 2024 RX 450H+ and I usually do my own ceramic coating on my new cars. Interestingly, I also found in the manual p.486 that the paint comes with a factory coating that supposed to resist scratches for 5-8 years. Still will polish and apply my own ceramic coating, but feels like a shame polishing off the coating.
The 4 cylinder engine in the 350H and 450H+ is rated at 180HP. With batteries, the 350H is rated at 246HP with 66HP coming from electric assist as available. The 450H, when combining hybrid battery and PHEV battery capacity you go from 180HP to 306HP which is an additional 126 HP. I suspect 66HP coming from the standard hybrid battery like the 350H and an additional 60HP coming from added battery capacity the 450H+ offers.
I suspect the 450H+ loses 60HP when the PHEV battery is run down to zero percent which drops it down to the 350H rating of 246 HP give or take. I am not sure the PHEV battery even works except when on all electric power. Is there an option to use the PHEV capacity to assist the ICE engine or is it dedicated to strictly EV driving? If so, that would affect my assumptions.
The PHEV battery is often used in Hybrid Mode driving. When you press the accelerator pedal for normal acceleration, power is first sent to the electric motors, both front and rear, then the ICE is brought online and takes over. This gives instant throttle response and keeps the engine from having to work so hard and make noise. Normal driving and regen braking replenish the battery capacity that was used in taking off.
Under full throttle acceleration, the electric motors again kick in first with the ICE coming online an instant later, but the electric motors continue to add power until the throttle is backed off or released. The energy used will then be replenished during driving and regen braking.
When the vehicle is first put in Hybrid Mode, the ICE starts, but the electric motors continue to provide all the power for normal acceleration, until the engine is warmed up. Full throttle will force the engine online immediately.
The 2024 RX 450h+ impresses with its sleek design and refined interior. The hybrid powertrain offers a smooth and quiet ride, with impressive fuel efficiency. The addition of the "+" designation indicates enhancements and upgrades, likely including advanced technology features and improved performance. Overall, the 2024 RX 450h+ seems to be a promising option for those seeking a luxury SUV with eco-friendly credentials and modern amenities.
The 4 cylinder engine in the 350H and 450H+ is rated at 180HP. With batteries, the 350H is rated at 246HP with 66HP coming from electric assist as available. The 450H, when combining hybrid battery and PHEV battery capacity you go from 180HP to 306HP which is an additional 126 HP. I suspect 66HP coming from the standard hybrid battery like the 350H and an additional 60HP coming from added battery capacity the 450H+ offers.
I suspect the 450H+ loses 60HP when the PHEV battery is run down to zero percent which drops it down to the 350H rating of 246 HP give or take. I am not sure the PHEV battery even works except when on all electric power. Is there an option to use the PHEV capacity to assist the ICE engine or is it dedicated to strictly EV driving? If so, that would affect my assumptions.
I believe you are correct here. Lexus does not publish the HP of the gas only output of the 2.5L engine without the hybrid assist or the PHEV motors that I can see on their website anywhere. But I did find this on other professional reviewers websites indicating 180HP for the gas engine alone.
The question boils down to this: Does the electric motor have the same power contribution to the drive-train when the traction battery is charged to <= 30 % vs. when its charged to >= 30 % ?
I'm reading conflicting opinions above. If the answer to the above is yes, then Lexus has been misleading - in fact, it would be considered false advertising of the HP of the car, since the 304 HP has been claimed without an asterisk or any kind of clarifying footnote.
However, the engineer/scientist part of me thinks that it would extremely stupid to design such a drive-train, since the 304 HP would be equivalent to the "Boost mode" that some EVs provide - sprints of power, but 450H+ specs would be intentionally pretentious/misleading about that. Since the HP spec has to be ratified by govt agencies and such (under some kind of a regulation framework, just as EPA does for mpg), and not just an advertising spec for sales/marketing, designing/selling so would be quite sacrilegious wrt regulations.
I wouldn't trust what any sales/delivery rep. at the dealership would say, they know very little about the cars they sell, at least in the case of Lexus dealerships, by my experience. Some reviewers can be more technically adept, but it is still better to have a more rigorous source of truth. Perhaps those who have been long using this kind of "hybrid synergy" drive-train that Toyota specializes in, can chime in (Prius, Rav4 Prime, etc). Right now, superficially to me, it seems like the answer to my question is No - would be sad if someone can confirm I'm definitely wrong and why.
I wouldn't trust what any sales/delivery rep. at the dealership would say, they know very little about the cars they sell, at least in the case of Lexus dealerships, by my experience.
This.
Personally, I don't put too much stock or worry in Hybrid horsepower figures. You have two different technologies that have two very different torque/horsepower curves. The horsepower figures, by necessity, are an approximation.
My intuition, take it for what is worth, is that the battery of the hybrid or phev RXs will very rarely be drawn down to where full power acceleration is not available. Under any conditions I can envision, keeping the pedal floored for a long enough period to draw the traction battery down low enough for the system to reduce power is going to put one at highly illegal speeds. Slowing down will then recharge the battery...
The question boils down to this: Does the electric motor have the same power contribution to the drive-train when the traction battery is charged to <= 30 % vs. when its charged to >= 30 % ?
I'm reading conflicting opinions above. If the answer to the above is yes, then Lexus has been misleading - in fact, it would be considered false advertising of the HP of the car, since the 304 HP has been claimed without an asterisk or any kind of clarifying footnote.
However, the engineer/scientist part of me thinks that it would extremely stupid to design such a drive-train, since the 304 HP would be equivalent to the "Boost mode" that some EVs provide - sprints of power, but 450H+ specs would be intentionally pretentious/misleading about that. Since the HP spec has to be ratified by govt agencies and such (under some kind of a regulation framework, just as EPA does for mpg), and not just an advertising spec for sales/marketing, designing/selling so would be quite sacrilegious wrt regulations.
I wouldn't trust what any sales/delivery rep. at the dealership would say, they know very little about the cars they sell, at least in the case of Lexus dealerships, by my experience. Some reviewers can be more technically adept, but it is still better to have a more rigorous source of truth. Perhaps those who have been long using this kind of "hybrid synergy" drive-train that Toyota specializes in, can chime in (Prius, Rav4 Prime, etc). Right now, superficially to me, it seems like the answer to my question is No - would be sad if someone can confirm I'm definitely wrong and why.
Not sure if you trust this, but check out this forum thread: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/nx-...l#post11434079. Someone actually graphed the power dropping 80% as the EV range drops to 0 (Traction Battery depleted to 30%). It’s on an NX450H+ but I’m sure the RX has comparable numbers given it’s practically the same engine.
Not sure if you trust this, but check out this forum thread: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/nx-...l#post11434079. Someone actually graphed the power dropping 80% as the EV range drops to 0 (Traction Battery depleted to 30%). It’s on an NX450H+ but I’m sure the RX has comparable numbers given it’s practically the same engine.
Just to be clear, that graph shows EV power dropping to 80% of max, not power dropping 80%. ICE power world be unaffected, so it would be more like a 8% drop in overall Hybrid Mode power, at worst, in my estimation.
Just to be clear, that graph shows EV power dropping to 80% of max, not power dropping 80%. ICE power world be unaffected, so it would be more like a 8% drop in overall Hybrid Mode power, at worst, in my estimation.
Yes, this graph, which may be credible for the discussion in that thread, doesn't look directly relevant to answering our question here. The wheels of the RX450H+ and NX450H+ are driven by electric motors, so the question is whether the motive power of the wheels, such as measured by a dynamometer, is affected by whether the traction battery is at 100 % charge vs. when its at 30 % charge in the NX450H+/RX450H+ (or in a Rav4 Prime for that matter). That's a complex question not answerable from this data/graph, I think - but measurable in a car dynamometer.
Just to be clear, that graph shows EV power dropping to 80% of max, not power dropping 80%. ICE power world be unaffected, so it would be more like a 8% drop in overall Hybrid Mode power, at worst, in my estimation.
Correct, dropping to 80%. The big question was is there any drop to power when the Battery Traction Motor drops below the 30% useable EV mode.
The question boils down to this: Does the electric motor have the same power contribution to the drive-train when the traction battery is charged to <= 30 % vs. when its charged to >= 30 % ?.
How is the graph not relevant to the question at hand? If you see the power dropping when the Battery Traction Motor reaches its useable EV miles limit (aka 30%), that specifically answers your question. You didn’t ask how much it dropped but rather if you would get the same power above and below 30%.. and the answer is NO, you don’t have the same power when the Battery Traction Motor is depleted.
06-02-24, 11:30 AM
