IGLA and 2024 NX350h
10-24-23, 12:39 PM
#1
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
IGLA and 2024 NX350h
This is for anyone who is thinking about getting the IGLA immobilizer installed. I had recommended it after all the research I had done and had it scheduled to be installed last week. Unfortunately I got a call this morning when I was supposed to going to pick up the vehicle saying they had to return everything back to its factory condition as the IGLA isn't configured to work with the new model year (2024) hybrid version of the NX350. It currently works with the 2023 hybrid and the 2024 gas version. Anyone else had this problem?
Any other similar systems that anyone would like to recommend? Preferably one that doesn't require cutting wires or drilling holes and won't void the factory warranty.
Any other similar systems that anyone would like to recommend? Preferably one that doesn't require cutting wires or drilling holes and won't void the factory warranty.
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Mylexus2 (10-28-23)
10-24-23, 01:50 PM
#2
I had the Autowatch Ghost installed in my 350h for about 1 month in March this year. It is a similar system to the IGLA, works essentially the same way. It was de-installed as well as it didn't function correctly. Every time it was put into valet mode, it crapped out and required resetting/reprogramming. I would have to drive 45 minutes 1 way to the installation shop. Just wasn't reliable enough. The rep did complain a lot about the number of computers in the car, presumably connected to the CAN bus. The installation shop swore they would not install anything into an NX until the device manufacturer proved functionality. So I am thinking there likely won't be too many alternatives.
I have my doubts about the IGLA working properly with 2023 or even 2022 models. I've not heard of any substantial changes in the electronics of this generation NX, yet. I believe the gen 5 RX models have much the same electronics, perhaps a bit more as there are a few more tech things in them, like the camera on top of the steering wheel looking back at the driver. So I have my doubts about functionality in gen 5 of those as well
I have my doubts about the IGLA working properly with 2023 or even 2022 models. I've not heard of any substantial changes in the electronics of this generation NX, yet. I believe the gen 5 RX models have much the same electronics, perhaps a bit more as there are a few more tech things in them, like the camera on top of the steering wheel looking back at the driver. So I have my doubts about functionality in gen 5 of those as well
10-24-23, 02:36 PM
#3
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I had the Autowatch Ghost installed in my 350h for about 1 month in March this year. It is a similar system to the IGLA, works essentially the same way. It was de-installed as well as it didn't function correctly. Every time it was put into valet mode, it crapped out and required resetting/reprogramming. I would have to drive 45 minutes 1 way to the installation shop. Just wasn't reliable enough. The rep did complain a lot about the number of computers in the car, presumably connected to the CAN bus. The installation shop swore they would not install anything into an NX until the device manufacturer proved functionality. So I am thinking there likely won't be too many alternatives.
I have my doubts about the IGLA working properly with 2023 or even 2022 models. I've not heard of any substantial changes in the electronics of this generation NX, yet. I believe the gen 5 RX models have much the same electronics, perhaps a bit more as there are a few more tech things in them, like the camera on top of the steering wheel looking back at the driver. So I have my doubts about functionality in gen 5 of those as well
I have my doubts about the IGLA working properly with 2023 or even 2022 models. I've not heard of any substantial changes in the electronics of this generation NX, yet. I believe the gen 5 RX models have much the same electronics, perhaps a bit more as there are a few more tech things in them, like the camera on top of the steering wheel looking back at the driver. So I have my doubts about functionality in gen 5 of those as well
Where did you get the Autowatch Ghost installed? I can't find a list of installers anywhere. I know the IGLA has more information online readily available.
10-25-23, 05:44 AM
#4
I live in south western Ontario, Canada. The shop was in Hamilton, but they have 1 or 2 others in the GTA. Search out Autowatch and contact them directly. Hugh Morris is the Canadian rep, he lives in Elora.
11-01-23, 01:13 PM
#5
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Thanks but I live in the South USA so no where near Ontario unfortunately. Found another option I'm looking into.....Mastergard m1000. Let me know if anyone has any experience.
11-01-23, 09:34 PM
#7
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Anyone with a better understanding please enlighten me, what does the encrypted canbus actually mean for those of us thinking about getting an immobilizer?
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11-02-23, 08:19 AM
#8
Racer
I had read that somewhere as well. However it's hard to find much information on exactly what that entails but I do understand that would be very counterproductive and ultimately not a good idea to have documentation describing it in detail on the internet.
Anyone with a better understanding please enlighten me, what does the encrypted canbus actually mean for those of us thinking about getting an immobilizer?
Anyone with a better understanding please enlighten me, what does the encrypted canbus actually mean for those of us thinking about getting an immobilizer?
Starting in around 2021 (and I assume gradually across different models as they get updated I suppose) Toyota ECUs began to include new security functionality for communications. If I understand correctly, this is based on the SECOS protocol developed by Autosar, a company that develops standardized communication platforms and was founded by most of the major auto manufacturers. Any module that needs to communicate secure data will implement this protocol to authenticate and secure the communications with other modules. This works using the combination of private and public security keys, very similar to the way your computer browser encrypts data transferred to and from web servers using the HTTPS protocol. One additional part of this though is authentication. A web server might not necessarily care who a visitor is, its just happy to encrypt the traffic from any computer that connects. But in this case there is also an authentication process to verify the other side of the communications is expected and properly recognized (like adding a user logon to a website). So I suppose the idea is that you can't just plug in any device into the vehicles communications network and have it start barking out critical commands without first being properly programmed with the proper security keys. These would be issued by (in case of Toyota) the TIS using the Techstream software by a Toyota authorized technician (programming an ECU requires the tech to logon to TIS and TIS generates the key and sends it directly to the car during programming function). This general kind of process of securing communications with the exchange of security keys is well known, been around for decades, and generally works very well (at least until quantum computing goes mainstream), but as with many things in the computing world, the theory might be bullet proof but sometimes the actual implementation is not due to bugs or compromised user accounts.
So how would this be different than the aftermarket immobilizers. Well, I "think" that while what I described above is secure coms and authentication processes, the 3rd party immobilizers act like firewalls. Essentially, I think they simply block data communications unless a predefined action is taking place. Either carrying a special key, or pushing dash/steering wheel buttons in a specific order like a password, that then asks the immobilizer to open for data to flow. Another advantage is that while the car's standard data comm is generally the same across all cars in the model and year (and if a bug or vulnerability is found, it would apply widely), the aftermarket immobilizers might present an unusual unexpected impediment that might discourage a successful theft. These devices might themselves also have bugs and implementation flaws which might leave them vulnerable as well, but they have the added advantage of being present in lower numbers and perhaps may not have as much hacking attempts to discover their weaknesses.
So if what I described is actually the case, the two could still complement each other provided the immobilizer doesn't mess with the normal communications once opened (ie compatibility issues).
11-02-23, 10:38 PM
#10
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
No expert on this stuff, but I have been also trying to find information about this. Here is what I understand so far (open to correction of course):
Starting in around 2021 (and I assume gradually across different models as they get updated I suppose) Toyota ECUs began to include new security functionality for communications. If I understand correctly, this is based on the SECOS protocol developed by Autosar, a company that develops standardized communication platforms and was founded by most of the major auto manufacturers. Any module that needs to communicate secure data will implement this protocol to authenticate and secure the communications with other modules. This works using the combination of private and public security keys, very similar to the way your computer browser encrypts data transferred to and from web servers using the HTTPS protocol. One additional part of this though is authentication. A web server might not necessarily care who a visitor is, its just happy to encrypt the traffic from any computer that connects. But in this case there is also an authentication process to verify the other side of the communications is expected and properly recognized (like adding a user logon to a website). So I suppose the idea is that you can't just plug in any device into the vehicles communications network and have it start barking out critical commands without first being properly programmed with the proper security keys. These would be issued by (in case of Toyota) the TIS using the Techstream software by a Toyota authorized technician (programming an ECU requires the tech to logon to TIS and TIS generates the key and sends it directly to the car during programming function). This general kind of process of securing communications with the exchange of security keys is well known, been around for decades, and generally works very well (at least until quantum computing goes mainstream), but as with many things in the computing world, the theory might be bullet proof but sometimes the actual implementation is not due to bugs or compromised user accounts.
So how would this be different than the aftermarket immobilizers. Well, I "think" that while what I described above is secure coms and authentication processes, the 3rd party immobilizers act like firewalls. Essentially, I think they simply block data communications unless a predefined action is taking place. Either carrying a special key, or pushing dash/steering wheel buttons in a specific order like a password, that then asks the immobilizer to open for data to flow. Another advantage is that while the car's standard data comm is generally the same across all cars in the model and year (and if a bug or vulnerability is found, it would apply widely), the aftermarket immobilizers might present an unusual unexpected impediment that might discourage a successful theft. These devices might themselves also have bugs and implementation flaws which might leave them vulnerable as well, but they have the added advantage of being present in lower numbers and perhaps may not have as much hacking attempts to discover their weaknesses.
So if what I described is actually the case, the two could still complement each other provided the immobilizer doesn't mess with the normal communications once opened (ie compatibility issues).
Starting in around 2021 (and I assume gradually across different models as they get updated I suppose) Toyota ECUs began to include new security functionality for communications. If I understand correctly, this is based on the SECOS protocol developed by Autosar, a company that develops standardized communication platforms and was founded by most of the major auto manufacturers. Any module that needs to communicate secure data will implement this protocol to authenticate and secure the communications with other modules. This works using the combination of private and public security keys, very similar to the way your computer browser encrypts data transferred to and from web servers using the HTTPS protocol. One additional part of this though is authentication. A web server might not necessarily care who a visitor is, its just happy to encrypt the traffic from any computer that connects. But in this case there is also an authentication process to verify the other side of the communications is expected and properly recognized (like adding a user logon to a website). So I suppose the idea is that you can't just plug in any device into the vehicles communications network and have it start barking out critical commands without first being properly programmed with the proper security keys. These would be issued by (in case of Toyota) the TIS using the Techstream software by a Toyota authorized technician (programming an ECU requires the tech to logon to TIS and TIS generates the key and sends it directly to the car during programming function). This general kind of process of securing communications with the exchange of security keys is well known, been around for decades, and generally works very well (at least until quantum computing goes mainstream), but as with many things in the computing world, the theory might be bullet proof but sometimes the actual implementation is not due to bugs or compromised user accounts.
So how would this be different than the aftermarket immobilizers. Well, I "think" that while what I described above is secure coms and authentication processes, the 3rd party immobilizers act like firewalls. Essentially, I think they simply block data communications unless a predefined action is taking place. Either carrying a special key, or pushing dash/steering wheel buttons in a specific order like a password, that then asks the immobilizer to open for data to flow. Another advantage is that while the car's standard data comm is generally the same across all cars in the model and year (and if a bug or vulnerability is found, it would apply widely), the aftermarket immobilizers might present an unusual unexpected impediment that might discourage a successful theft. These devices might themselves also have bugs and implementation flaws which might leave them vulnerable as well, but they have the added advantage of being present in lower numbers and perhaps may not have as much hacking attempts to discover their weaknesses.
So if what I described is actually the case, the two could still complement each other provided the immobilizer doesn't mess with the normal communications once opened (ie compatibility issues).
So now we have to decide if it's worth adding the aftermarket immobilizer on top of the new ECU security measures. It's over $1k here for the IGLA but the peace of mind might be worth it.
I also suspect these new security measures are what is causing the issue for the 2024 hybrid.
What are others opinions?
11-03-23, 07:03 AM
#11
Racer
What was really interesting about my search for info, I came across an open source project called OpenPilot that was building an advanced self drive / driver assist system that would replace and exceed the capabilities of the TSS/LSS driver systems. Cool I thought, take these self drive/assist systems to an even higher level and also look forward to continual improvement (more like Tesla, less like Lexus) in functionality over time. But alas, it seems this new ECU security has locked them out of being able to work on newer models. They have been trying to find a backdoor way to continue, but so far they have been thwarted (good I suppose for anti-theft, bad if you like the idea of being able to install more advanced non-OEM system). The project might be dead now because of it.
Last edited by Droid13; 11-03-23 at 07:13 AM.
11-04-23, 10:12 AM
#15
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
it's an immobilizer Anti-theft system that doesn't require any drilling or cutting of wires. Allowing you to go back to stock at any point if you decide you don't like it. It essentially has you enter a series of key/button presses of buttons/keys you already have in your vehicle before your vehicle can be taken out of Park. Even if a thief had your key inside your car unless they know the unique key presses you set up the car will not come out of park