WellsB

I've driven from Redding to Mt Shasta in the RX450h+ in Hybrid mode. At no time did I ever have insufficient power to maintain the speed limit with passing power to spare, and the battery did not deplete enough for me to recall.

In fact, in none of my travels over the last 10,000 miles, have I noticed the battery being noticeably depleted when in Hybrid Mode, and I've been over some major elevation gains. Some of my trips have included Fairfield CA to Anacortes, WA; a loop trip of Arizona parks, a drive from Visalia through Sequoia National Park and back, and a drive along California Highway 49.

Keep in mind that the RX450h+, in Hybrid Mode, will tap into the battery as needed, but then will recharge it as soon as it can. Rarely are elevation gains pure inclines. There will be a steep grade of a few miles, then a level run or even descent where the battery is recharged. I don't think I've ever seen the EV range drop more than a few miles before seeing it climb back up, or seen the battery percentage change by more than 10%.

havec

Thank you for your very helpful reply. I had 2013 Avalon hybrid and remember not being too thrilled going over the Grape Vine. However, the 450H+ is going to be light years ahead. Especially, in terms of ride quality and silence which makes for a comfortable relaxing road trip. I’m sure there will be a lot of discussion when Consumer Reports finishes their test.

WellsB

I've been over the Grapevine in the RX450h+ No power issues and the handling makes it fun.

KrzysiekKTA

Another fuel economy update:

Tires: 19" Michelin Primacy
Load: 3 person with fully loaded car with ski gear (est, 700+lbs )
Weather: 20% time strong headwinds, temp 24-100degF (60-70degF average)
Elevation change: none (round trip Houston - Mammoth Lakes - Lake Tahoe - Death Valley - Houston)
Distance: 3,850 miles,
cruising speed: 77-83 mph (83 mph 70% of time)
Number of charge-ups : 4 (est.. 53kWh charged)
Car Computer avg. fuel consumption: 31.9 mpg
Fuel up calculated total consumption: 31.2 mpg
Net fuel consumption estimate (with substracted EV charge ups).: 30.0 mpg

Side notes:
- RX 450h+ excels in the mountains with steep elevation changes provided 15-25 EV range is maintained,
- The fuel reserve seems to be on high side with 14.5 gal tank capacity the max fuel up was 12.83 gal ( with multiple top ups) at 0 miles HV range left .

Hope one can benefit from above feedback.

Brgds

K

havec

Thanks for providing the very helpful detailed information on your road trip.
The great mileage and climbing ability combined with the Lexus ride and quietness make this RX450H+ number one for my next vehicle. Can’t wait to hear what CR has to say when they finish their test. Judging from what I’ve read on this forum it’s going to be very highly rated.

WellsB

I just made a 1,700 mile road trip up the coast of California and Oregon, with a bunch of mountain driving and some freeway in the mix, and averaged 39.68 mpg. If I factor in electricity used, it drops to 38 mpg, still amazing.

With almost 14,000 miles on the vehicle, my average is 42.4 or 36.3 with electricity factored in. My EV mode usage is around 15% of total, with all of our local driving in EV mode and the vast majority of our road trips, which makes up most of the miles, in hybrid mode.

wrinkle

What exactly did you mean by "15-25" (miles) EV range is maintained ? What do you gain by maintaining that range ? Can you please elaborate ?

With either of your usage models - what is the miles/kWh you are getting, as displayed for the life of the car, in your dash ?

And given the App doesn't log any data by default, for getting the larger samples of data dissection that you did for your long-term use - did you actually log the data yourself ? Or did you extract it from the car somewhere ?

WellsB

I am logging the data myself. I'm not trying to keep track of miles per kwh and i reset the trip info every day so i don't have a total. One of the few disappointments with this car is that it has less economy tracking than our 2013 had.

I do keep track of the estimated range when fully charged. My current EV range estimate is 43 miles with HVAC and 46 miles without. 40/42 is the worst I've seen, since beginning to track it. I generally only use EV mode for in town driving or highway speeds up to 55 mph.

If one assumes 14.5kwh as the capacity of the battery, then my average seems to be 2.96 miles per kwh with HVAC and 3.17 without, based on the current range estimates.

wrinkle

Hm, with current range estimates I'm getting with HVAC on, its 46 miles and Chargepoint chargers state 14.6 kwh for a full charge - implying 3.15 miles/kwh using these metrics.

On the other hand, the dash indicator that presumably "averages" the entire lifetime estimate of this same metric, claims 2.7 miles/Kwh - the lower value presumably because the car started its life with a range estimate of 34 miles.

I will have to figure how to get an accurate estimate of the gas/hybrid mileage other than the shown fudged number of 93 mpg or so on the dash, without having to calculate the miles based on gallons filled and miles driven manually. I'll agree that these measurements should be easily trackable in the app or car, but its quite bad in this regard. I believe the NX450H+ is doing this much better, Lexus is just too lazy to copy/paste these functionalities over to the RX450H+

havec

I’ve been waiting Consumer Reports to finish testing the RX450H+ and the NX450H+ for months. If the score is in the upper 80s, then I will place a deposit on a 2025. I’m sure there will be a good discussion here once everyone reads what CR has to say in their long term test. Too bad the 450H+ doesn’t qualify for the $7500 tax credit like other PHEVs.

WellsB

Keep in mind that there has been a workaround for the $7500 where one leases the vehicle, gets a $7500 discount from Lexus, then pays off the lease shortly after buying. I wish I had known of this before we purchased ours. I don't know if it is still available.

havec

Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely consider it.

KrzysiekKTA

I meant car showing 15-25 miles of EV range. I found it is the Traction battery SoC in the range (60-70%) to have the car perform best in respect of taking advantage of battery SoC to boost performance/efficiency in mountainous drives.
Say if you maintain that SoC by switching between HV/EV or even EV/CHG mode the there is enough 'EV juice to climb some long steep hill and enough capacity to recover most of subsequent descents.
The worst (from efficiency perspective) is that the EV/HV algorithms of Toyota prioritize HV mode, therefore not really taking advantage of the larger portion of the traction battery capacity reserved for HV mode.
I believe they did not do they homework about PHEV optimization - PHEV in HV mode works 'almost' exactly the same as ordinary HEV model with much smaller HV battery capacity available.

BTW
Just to give some perspective - I have had Prius prime PHEV and managed to boost the mpg just by playing with EV/CHG mode and retaining some decent traction battery SoC, so I was able to use pure EV mode when decelerating - called "EV banking" and use that in stop-an-go traffic down the trip. The mpg boost went to over 55mpg v.s. 44mpg jut driving the car.
That was the surprise mpg boost when driven without charging at all. To be honest I tried same with my RX450h+, but the the efficiency boost were not that significant.
Nevertheless. My cross-Death Valley drive proved that performance/efficiency-wise it is worth while to maintain some decent charge in the traction battery for power boosts and steep climbs but not too high to allow most efficient recuperation (I found sweet spot was around 60-70%Soc would provide good buffer to boost the climbs and still have enough capacity to accept significant amounts of recuperated energy from descents).It is purely empirical and subjective observations.
YET, there is significant potential in PHEV efficiency management optimization - so fat it seem we PHEV owners are driving the HEV vehicles with much larger batteries and ability to drive in purely EV mode.

So far the only way to take advantage of the larger battery is to play with EV/HV/EVCHG modes and see how it goes.

Just my 5 cents.

Brgds

K

wrinkle

Thanks, this is exactly what I was wondering about - does having more than the minimum 30 % charge in the traction battery provide any advantage in the power (HP/Torque) at the wheels or conversely, in the HV mpeg obtained ? And does the 304 HP rating any depend on the % of charge in the traction battery - is 30 % the same as 100 % for HP rating ? Is there any advantage we can derive by having a traction battery larger in the PHEV than the 350H model (other than the ability for running as pure EV for higher speeds and longer ranges) ?

Sounds like your empirical learnings suggest that the answer is "depends and Yes". Lexus didn't really optimize for the above, but there is indeed value in higher HP/torque available at the wheels when the traction battery is at 60-70 % (vs. 30 % or effective 0 miles EV range) AND, there is value in better energy recapture when the traction battery is NOT at 100 % (best at 60-70 %), leading to higher effective and observed mpg in the HV mode, especially valuable in long drives. However, we/users have to empirically remember and use those to our advantage.

Thanks, please let me know if the above paragraph did not capture what you intended to say.

KrzysiekKTA

I think you got it. I was just trying to share my findings of driving TOYOTA PHEVs and I believe other PHEVs in general, as I have driven other brands as well.

My general thinking is, when you compare Prius Prime PHEV drivetrain power/battery management (which was far from well optimized - as my empirical tests indicate) with much bigger RX 450H+ there there are significant opportunities to take advantage of the 'bigger traction battery' in RX. will it be worth for OEM ? maybe not. Yet in general PHEVs (maybe except BMW i-8) have never been designed as PHEV "from the ground".
So...

Let's play with it an see ho we can take advantage of what we have in hands.

Cheers!

K