450h+ or stay with hybrid
#16
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I'm not an audiophile (I will mainly use it for books on tape), but I have grown a bit fond of panoramic view monitor (in the convenience package) and the digital rearview mirror (part of the tech package)...the $1.5k headlights I def could do without.
Last edited by asj2024; 03-12-24 at 06:32 PM.
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wrinkle (03-13-24)
#17
Lexus Test Driver
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We went with the 350h premium plus sans ML audio, pano glass roof and triple beam headlights, thus saving about $6k off the luxury trim models that had all that. I have the trips and ML in my ES - nice but not worth the $ to me and the all glass roof I absolutely would not get.
#18
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With the 350h, you don't have to change your current routine, just fill and go. With the 450h+, you have to find a way to charge it to maximize its EV feature. I read that plug-in hybrids are not designed to fully charge its battery so you will have a hybrid with an oversized battery. That also comes with the extra weight so you will have a lower MPG than the non-plug-in version.
The 350h will be slightly slower than your 450h, 0-60 7.4 sec vs 6.8 sec, respectively. Both are slower than the 450h+'s 6.2 sec, but not materially and I suppose it doesn't matter when we are shopping for a RX.
We did not test drive the 450h+ as we have no interest in finding a charging station. Gas economy is not an issue either (Costco 87 and 93 octane are $2.93 and $3.34 in TX) as we average around 5k miles per year, we plan to use 93 for more power. We are still on our 1st tank of gas from the dealership so we don't know if there will be a difference.
The 350h will be slightly slower than your 450h, 0-60 7.4 sec vs 6.8 sec, respectively. Both are slower than the 450h+'s 6.2 sec, but not materially and I suppose it doesn't matter when we are shopping for a RX.
We did not test drive the 450h+ as we have no interest in finding a charging station. Gas economy is not an issue either (Costco 87 and 93 octane are $2.93 and $3.34 in TX) as we average around 5k miles per year, we plan to use 93 for more power. We are still on our 1st tank of gas from the dealership so we don't know if there will be a difference.
#19
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Once the EV is used up (around 37 miles range), then the car just becomes like an HEV, albeit as you said one with a lower mpg - 35 mpg vs 36 mpg I think.
Last edited by asj2024; 03-12-24 at 06:44 PM.
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#20
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The RX450h+ feels much more refined during acceleration, even in HV mode, as the electric motors do much of the work, unless you ask for higher than normal rates of acceleration. I rarely notice the engine as a result and acceleration just feels effortless. This is made possible by the much larger battery.
We mostly use EV mode around town, using no gas, and rarely charge it on long trips, unless there is a charger at the hotel for overnight charging.
We mostly use EV mode around town, using no gas, and rarely charge it on long trips, unless there is a charger at the hotel for overnight charging.
#21
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I just charge it at home. Takes a night to fully charge using 120V outlet, much faster if you have a level 2 charger (2.5 hours?). I don't think I'll need faster charging, so am sticking with 120V.
Once the EV is used up (around 37 miles range), then the car just becomes like an HEV, albeit as you said one with a lower mpg - 35 mpg vs 36 mpg I think.
Once the EV is used up (around 37 miles range), then the car just becomes like an HEV, albeit as you said one with a lower mpg - 35 mpg vs 36 mpg I think.
If a 450h+ available and the extra cost (~$6k over the similarly-spec 350h luxury) makes sense to the buyer, why not? I would love to experience the knee warmer, although I have no use case for it.
#22
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This is very helpful. I thought the charging would take longer; my brother has an EV and he had to get a level 2 charger to make his EV feasible. Plus the mpg decline is very modest, I see why some prefer the 450h+ over the 350h.
If a 450h+ available and the extra cost (~$6k over the similarly-spec 350h luxury) makes sense to the buyer, why not? I would love to experience the knee warmer, although I have no use case for it.
If a 450h+ available and the extra cost (~$6k over the similarly-spec 350h luxury) makes sense to the buyer, why not? I would love to experience the knee warmer, although I have no use case for it.
The much larger batteries of the BEVs means you HAVE to use at least level 2 chargers for them to fill up within a reasonable time period (and you need to fill up, because once that charge is gone, the BEVs are not like hybrids that can use gas)
I love the fact the PHEVs like the RX450h+ can use both electricity and gas. No range anxiety at all, and if the grid ever goes down (zombie invasion, whatever) the thing will still run on gas.
As I noted though, the problem with buying the RX450h+ is that pretty much all the available cars are installed with a host of "optional" packages, so the base MSRP+DPH is already around $75k...it sucks, but what can you do.
Last edited by asj2024; 03-12-24 at 08:35 PM.
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wrinkle (03-12-24)
#23
Intermediate
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The 450h+ is not a BEV, so it has a much smaller battery (18.1 kwh). It's basically in between the typical hybrid (HEV) and the all-electrics (BEV), which have much larger batteries and ranges.
I love the fact the PHEVs like the RX450h+ can use both electricity and gas. No range anxiety at all, and if the grid ever goes down (zombie invasion, whatever) the thing will still run on gas.
I love the fact the PHEVs like the RX450h+ can use both electricity and gas. No range anxiety at all, and if the grid ever goes down (zombie invasion, whatever) the thing will still run on gas.
The RX450h+ feels much more refined during acceleration, even in HV mode, as the electric motors do much of the work, unless you ask for higher than normal rates of acceleration. I rarely notice the engine as a result and acceleration just feels effortless. This is made possible by the much larger battery.
We mostly use EV mode around town, using no gas, and rarely charge it on long trips, unless there is a charger at the hotel for overnight charging.
We mostly use EV mode around town, using no gas, and rarely charge it on long trips, unless there is a charger at the hotel for overnight charging.
It is however a bit technically surprising to have found that despite the heavier battery - the rated combined mpg for the PHEV (35 mpg) is only 1 mpg lower than the hybrid (36 mpg). Very nice engineering work there by Lexus.
Last edited by wrinkle; 03-12-24 at 11:26 PM.
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StefanoS (03-13-24)
#24
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The 450h+ has a smaller fuel tank as well. 55 liters (14.5 gal) vs 65 liters (17.2 gal) because of the bigger battery, and total range probably less than the 350h.
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wrinkle (03-13-24)
#26
Intermediate
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I looked up the curb weight of the 350h vs 450h+, and it's around 435 lbs (197 kg), so that's probably the reason for the difference.
The 450h+ has a smaller fuel tank as well. 55 liters (14.5 gal) vs 65 liters (17.2 gal) because of the bigger battery, and total range probably less than the 350h.
The 450h+ has a smaller fuel tank as well. 55 liters (14.5 gal) vs 65 liters (17.2 gal) because of the bigger battery, and total range probably less than the 350h.
#27
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Using careful driving, you can probably do better than 35 mpg HV most times, and I've stretched that EV range to 46 miles (not sure that's doable repeatedly).
#28
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so 12x35=420+35 is well under 500mi range. Real world. Still respectable number but I do wish the tank is the regular size.
#29
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Unless you want to risk the fuel pump overheating or stranded, you can’t get 14gal out of that fuel tank. There’s usually a 3 gal of reserve and there’s report here that they can’t pump in anymore than 12Gal.
so 12x35=420+35 is well under 500mi range. Real world. Still respectable number but I do wish the tank is the regular size.
so 12x35=420+35 is well under 500mi range. Real world. Still respectable number but I do wish the tank is the regular size.
#30
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Unless you want to risk the fuel pump overheating or stranded, you can’t get 14gal out of that fuel tank. There’s usually a 3 gal of reserve and there’s report here that they can’t pump in anymore than 12Gal.
so 12x35=420+35 is well under 500mi range. Real world. Still respectable number but I do wish the tank is the regular size.
so 12x35=420+35 is well under 500mi range. Real world. Still respectable number but I do wish the tank is the regular size.
Keep in mind that those with the larger tanks are reporting that the refuel light comes on with an even larger reserve, as much as 5 gallons, so if you are filling up when the refuel light comes on, then the difference is not as big as you'd think.
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