asj2024

When I was looking around, I found that almost all the RX450h+ available (around 500+ available) had these, as well as the convenience package and the technology package. I believe I only found one instance where the audio system was left off.

I'm not an audiophile (I will mainly use it for books on tape), but I have grown a bit fond of panoramic view monitor (in the convenience package) and the digital rearview mirror (part of the tech package)...the $1.5k headlights I def could do without.

mikemu30

We went with the 350h premium plus sans ML audio, pano glass roof and triple beam headlights, thus saving about $6k off the luxury trim models that had all that. I have the trips and ML in my ES - nice but not worth the $ to me and the all glass roof I absolutely would not get.

balabababa

With the 350h, you don't have to change your current routine, just fill and go. With the 450h+, you have to find a way to charge it to maximize its EV feature. I read that plug-in hybrids are not designed to fully charge its battery so you will have a hybrid with an oversized battery. That also comes with the extra weight so you will have a lower MPG than the non-plug-in version.

The 350h will be slightly slower than your 450h, 0-60 7.4 sec vs 6.8 sec, respectively. Both are slower than the 450h+'s 6.2 sec, but not materially and I suppose it doesn't matter when we are shopping for a RX.

We did not test drive the 450h+ as we have no interest in finding a charging station. Gas economy is not an issue either (Costco 87 and 93 octane are $2.93 and $3.34 in TX) as we average around 5k miles per year, we plan to use 93 for more power. We are still on our 1st tank of gas from the dealership so we don't know if there will be a difference.

asj2024

I just charge it at home. Takes a night to fully charge using 120V outlet, much faster if you have a level 2 charger (2.5 hours?). I don't think I'll need faster charging, so am sticking with 120V.

Once the EV is used up (around 37 miles range), then the car just becomes like an HEV, albeit as you said one with a lower mpg - 35 mpg vs 36 mpg I think.

WellsB

The RX450h+ feels much more refined during acceleration, even in HV mode, as the electric motors do much of the work, unless you ask for higher than normal rates of acceleration. I rarely notice the engine as a result and acceleration just feels effortless. This is made possible by the much larger battery.

We mostly use EV mode around town, using no gas, and rarely charge it on long trips, unless there is a charger at the hotel for overnight charging.

balabababa

This is very helpful. I thought the charging would take longer; my brother has an EV and he had to get a level 2 charger to make his EV feasible. Plus the mpg decline is very modest, I see why some prefer the 450h+ over the 350h.

If a 450h+ available and the extra cost (~$6k over the similarly-spec 350h luxury) makes sense to the buyer, why not? I would love to experience the knee warmer, although I have no use case for it.

asj2024

The 450h+ is not a BEV, so it has a much smaller battery (18.1 kwh). It's basically in between the typical hybrid (HEV) and the all-electrics (BEV), which have much larger batteries and ranges.

The much larger batteries of the BEVs means you HAVE to use at least level 2 chargers for them to fill up within a reasonable time period (and you need to fill up, because once that charge is gone, the BEVs are not like hybrids that can use gas)

I love the fact the PHEVs like the RX450h+ can use both electricity and gas. No range anxiety at all, and if the grid ever goes down (zombie invasion, whatever) the thing will still run on gas.

As I noted though, the problem with buying the RX450h+ is that pretty much all the available cars are installed with a host of "optional" packages, so the base MSRP+DPH is already around $75k...it sucks, but what can you do.

wrinkle

Yes, indeed. The electric range allows the same car to essentially morph from a pure EV behavior/characteristics in short urban hops or commutes, to a pure hybrid for anything longer than 40 miles.

It is however a bit technically surprising to have found that despite the heavier battery - the rated combined mpg for the PHEV (35 mpg) is only 1 mpg lower than the hybrid (36 mpg). Very nice engineering work there by Lexus.

asj2024

I looked up the curb weight of the 350h vs 450h+, and it's around 435 lbs (197 kg), so that's probably the reason for the difference.
The 450h+ has a smaller fuel tank as well. 55 liters (14.5 gal) vs 65 liters (17.2 gal) because of the bigger battery, and total range probably less than the 350h.

NickL

The 14gal fuel tank size on the RX450H+ is probably the deal breaker for me.

wrinkle

I had missed the smaller fuel tank. Right design in my view, given the full electric range together with 35 mpg combined - I can probably get away filling my 450h+ with gas only 3 times for an entire year, if I'm not making long-distance trips. I will probably fill 4 times just to keep the ICE running and consuming gas in the tank on a more regular basis. Even for long-distance trips, the 35 mpg makes the range significantly over 400 miles, which is more than sufficient.

asj2024

That's still an additional 500+ miles after you use up the 37 mile EV range.

Using careful driving, you can probably do better than 35 mpg HV most times, and I've stretched that EV range to 46 miles (not sure that's doable repeatedly).

NickL

Unless you want to risk the fuel pump overheating or stranded, you can’t get 14gal out of that fuel tank. There’s usually a 3 gal of reserve and there’s report here that they can’t pump in anymore than 12Gal.
so 12x35=420+35 is well under 500mi range. Real world. Still respectable number but I do wish the tank is the regular size.

asj2024

Forgot about that yes. A large tank on a PHEV would impact not only the EV efficiency, but the HV as well, so I get why they did that. I can live with slightly smaller tank. Only takes a few minutes to fill it up ;-) It's the EV range that affects me most since I will use that more in daily driving, and I will deliberately keep the gas tank with low volumes until I need it since it will be used less.

WellsB

If the tank is run completely empty, it will take 14.5 gallons. I've done that to prove the tank size as there was much debate about it. If the tank is run down until the refuel light comes on, then it takes about 11 gallons. Lexus claims the reserve is 2.2 gallons, so I have no issues driving another 40 miles after the refuel light comes, if that is convenient. Most of the time, I fill up sooner though, as I'm always looking for the most affordable fuel, which is usually Costco.

Keep in mind that those with the larger tanks are reporting that the refuel light comes on with an even larger reserve, as much as 5 gallons, so if you are filling up when the refuel light comes on, then the difference is not as big as you'd think.