luvmy450h

Hi All, I am a proud owner of a 2013 450h with 218,000 miles. I think she is not well, and it is time for a newer model. The decision is killing me! I am torn between the 450h+ plug in or a Luxury model hybrid. The hybrid has done me well for the past 11 years. Just not sure what to do. How did you make your decision to go with the plug in option? I am just afraid that battery may not last as long with the constant charging (like our phones). Thoughts?

WellsB

We traded our 160k 2013 RX350 in for a RX450h+ in October, and have since put 7,500 trouble-free miles on it, mostly in long road-trips.

I expect the RX450h+ traction battery to last at least 10 years or 150k miles, which is what the warranty is. Keep in mind that you can't fully charge or discharge the battery the way you can with your phone and it is protected from overheating. Maximum discharge is about 13% and maximum charge is about 91%. This is to extend its life. If you did the same with your phone, its battery would last longer. The system also won't let you abuse the battery. It has safeguards built in. Even if you fully charge it and then use hybrid mode, it will discharge to 80%.

We chose the RX450h+ because it gives us a taste of EV life without the full commitment of buying a pure EV, plus more power and a quieter cabin than the 350h. We are happy with the choice. In our use case, the EV capability will never pay for itself, but that was not a concern for us. You would have to look at your cost of electricity and the amount of EV usage you could reasonably expect to figure out if it would pay in your case, if that is a factor for you. Don't assume that EV usage will be cheaper than hybrid usage though.

I do feel that the RX350h is the best deal among the current RXs, based on its price and fuel economy.

wa3cuj

On a strictly economic sense, I found that it would have taken me 15 years of 100% EV driving to offeset the increased cost of the 450+ charging at home with electric rates where I live. The same argument can be made for the premium of the 350h/500h over a gas 350. I still went with the 350h Luxury. It's my 5th RX hybrid. If I had purchased the gas vehicles instead of all the hybrids, I would have a lot of extra money in my pocket!!

JohnD333

The usual 25-30% premium paid for premium gas versus regular digs deeply into the higher mpg advantages of the hybrid. That gas price impact (disadvantage) is lessened if you do mostly (almost all) of your driving in stop and go and around town driving, because that is where the hybrid excels. The more miles you put on a vehicle in a year also helps moderate that disadvantage. If you only put 10,000 mile a year on the car, or do a lot of highway versus city driving, you will have bragging rights not an economic advantage.

That said, the smoothness of the power from the hybrid Is something to love, as is the amazing brake life because the wheel generators do most of the braking unless you drive hard.

We replaced our 2014 RX luxury hybrid with a 22 luxury gasser. We do miss a few things about the hybrid, but our driving style and quantity could not justify the extra cost. The cost of the hybrid is not significant with the upper trim models, but the fuel cost difference is. Those were both 6 cylinder. We did not want to be early adopters of the 4-cylinder setup gas or hybrid. After a few years of that configuration under Lexus’ belt AND the new style Toyota battery if incorporated, there might have been a very different decision. Current batteries are very heavy, and that impacts performance and mpg.

Good luck.

WellsB

The turbo 4 in the RX350/RX500h requires premium. The hybrid 4 in the 350h/450h+ can run regular, but premium is recommended.

So there is no extra "premium" for the hybrid when it comes to fuel.

StefanoS

I think that WellsB summed it up very well with his comments above and I concur with his opinions. I initially purchased the RX450h+ and am still very impressed with it's performance. So far, it is the best vehicle that I have owned. I enjoy the flexibility of running it in EV mode around town while being able to use HV mode on the highway. My wife felt that the RX was a little larger than she liked so, she opted for the NX 450h+, which we bought two months after the RX450h+. The NX is considerably noisier than the RX but, I enjoy driving both of them. The initial cost of the PHEV is more than the standard hybrid models but, I feel that it is well worth the premium outlay to have a better vehicle overall. As an aside, I do run premium fuel in both but, I don't have to tank up very much at all.

wrinkle

I've posted this elsewhere but I'm in concurrence with StefanoS and WellsB in my decision-making:

I have solar at home and charge for free at work, but still wouldn't have gone for the 450h+ for the cold math of recouping the cost consideration alone. It was the intangibles of completely noise-free driving in EV mode in everyday commute (90 % of my likely driving miles), helping the environment + oil independence goals to the extent practical (hence not into pure EV), and additional performance/torque/HP when I need/want it - led me to splurge. I also keep cars for long so didn't feel as guilty with the splurge, considering long term ownership.

WellsB

Yeah, I run premium as well. Just put 8 gallons in for the entire month of January. The rest was done in EV mode.

omar33

I agree with WellB. On paper there is so much to like about the 450h+ over the 350h. Mostly you get both great performance AND efficiency (if charged frequently). With the 350h you're getting some of that efficiency but the performance is just ok.

I'll just chime in one some finer points in favor of the 350h:
- It might not matter to some, but the 450h+ is just too much of a premium over the 350h and you'll likely never see that ROI. By the time you do, you are probably faced with the expense of a new battery pack.
- The 350h battery being significantly smaller is cheaper to replace and there are lots of options these days. Some youtube videos even show it can be a DIY job (though still not recommended).
- If you drive the 450h+ in EV mode 90%+ of the time, you are likely paying the ICE maintenance costs of oil/filter change for no good reason.

As with most things the 450h+ makes sense for a certain person. It might make more sense in some cases for a 2 car household to have one pure EV and one mild hybrid/gas car.

jahnjva

When I bought my car, the 450h+ was not available so my choice was hybrid or gas. I didn't need or want the 500h. At the time of purchase( Feb 2023) neither car was being discounted and many dealers had markups. I got mine for MSRP which at the time was a good deal. Since the gas vs hybrid pricing was the same it was a no brainer, get the hybrid. I my situation, I only put around 10K miles a year on the car. If I had to do it over and the the 450h+ was available, I still would have gone with the 350h. I am very happy with the 350h performance and as others have stated above, from a financial view only, the 350h wins every time. You will never recoup the extra cash spent on the 450h+ no matter how much you use EV mode. I cant justify the price premium for the 450. That said, if money is no object and you want a much quieter, faster and smoother performing car, then go with the 450h+. I don't think either car disappoints.

StefanoS

A 25-30% premium for higher octane fuel is not really accurate, at least not in my geographic area. Premium fuel is about $.30 per gallon more than regular unleaded. It is less than 10% more....something like 7% more costly. (Currently $4.67 versus $4.98 per gallon......Thanks, California)

wrinkle

While almost all people trying to rationalize the 450h+ over the 350h (whether RX or NX) fixate on the gas cost saving in EV - whether that's one's preferred metric or not (leaving aside whether its meaningful), I find it really abhorrent that one is forced to buy port-installed options like triple-beam headlamp or Mark Levinson speakers - which bump up the price of the car without providing value to the buyer such as myself (who couldn't care any less about the triple-beam or Mark Levinson - but had to fork out 3K-5K for them).

There is no choice because dealers either order or get allocated that way (at least in CA or Bay Area) - and this is one thing about Lexus I absolutely hate. I suppose its better than dealer markups over MSRP, but I still find it very, very annoying. The 450h+ would probably be a lot more palatable to a lot of people if it were available at near $ 70 K MSRP, rather than loaded with ~5 K of options unnecessarily (such as also those lug bolts nonsense). The 350h prices would also be lot lesser than they are. 3K - 5K is a significant percentage of the cost!

WellsB

And the non-hybrid requires 91 octane, so there is zero "premium" associated with fuel cost for the hybrids.

mikemu30

The differential here in NJ is .60 - .90/gallon.

jahnjva

Around 50 cents in VA Costco $2.94 Regular and $3.45 for Premium (2/05/24)