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Hybrid TechnologyUnique topics related to the GS450H model hybrid drivetrain and other features/options found only on the GS450H. Please use the main 4GS forum for discussion about shared components with other fourth generation GS models.
Read the paragraph that you copy-pasted off of page 40 and tell me how that's not a classic friction clutch. Also tell me what any of this has to do with the damper by the flywheel.
Key words:
Valve body
Pressure plates
Clutch and brake system
"The oil incurs significant heating"
btw, re: the input damper not having a friction ring:
I wonder why it fails on the ls600h. I also wonder why you quoted the weber auto video, where they explicitly mention that the newer versions of that mechanism just have the whole thing integrated / squished together in one assembly. And I really wonder how you associated the flywheel damper with what was shown in those pictures, given that it's at the other end of the transmission.
So yes, clutches do exist even in a regular eCVT. The gs450h (l110), ls600h(l110f) and ls/lc500h/crown s220 (l310(f)) aren't using regular eCVTs - the l110(f) has a 2spd auto for a selectable reduction ratio for MG2, the l310(f) has a full-blown 4spd auto to get around the eCVT powerband limitations - and it seems to work VERY well, given how improved the performance is on, say, the ls500h vs the gs450h - with practically the same engine.
Read the paragraph that you copy-pasted off of page 40 and tell me how that's not a classic friction clutch.
Key words:
Valve body
Pressure plates
Clutch and brake system
"The oil incurs significant heating"
I take your comment to suggest that your belief is that the eCVT has 'classic friction' clutches!
A 'classic friction clutch' has a compound material bonded directly to it, which is comprised of a composition made up of various friction properties that is known to wear off over time and contaminate the ATF. That is not the case with the clutches in an eCVT transmission.
Since your belief is that the eCVT transmission uses 'classic friction' clutches, maybe you can show an image of this 'classic friction' surface on a clutch that is used in an eCVT transmission. Otherwise, there is no need to debate this topic any further...
There are no clutches whatsoever in Toyota's pure power split device transaxles. There are clutches in the ones mentioned above, since they're not pure power split devices / eCVTs - while you are saying otherwise:
Originally Posted by bclexus
I would never 'service' the eCVT by replacing the transmission fluid. Lexus/Toyota does not recommend ever needing to service it and their dealerships are supposed to decline all requests to change transmission fluid.
The eCVT in the Lexus GS 450h is very durable and an extremely reliable transmission. It has no clutch plates with a friction material composition that wears off, and there is no valve body like a typical automatic transmission.
There's no need for me to show any pictures - you've already copy-pasted one from the article. The one with the "two sets of clutches/brakes" annotation.
Same for both GS450h's (3rd & 4th gen) & LS600h - they all use the same transaxle, except for the transfer case at the end (on the LS600h).
It isn't "sealed for life" - check the "severe service" intervals and you'll see that nothing really is.
@LeX2Kthis one does have clutch packs, but it doesn't play with them often at all. The thing that breaks is the auxiliary oil pump, the ball (yes, ball) bearings eventually wear out - plenty of writeups on the topic, one on the russian club lexus mentions using bearings with looser tolerances (i.e. for high temp applications). ~$5 or whatever in parts if it ever does happen... or $1500 or whatever the dealer decides to charge you for a 3phase oil pump assembly. Of course, the ATF never reaches them.
That's fair to say...
Originally Posted by tdevries
First of all you need to understand what is inside a GS450h transmission. It is basically 2 electric motors, 2 planetary gear sets, a two speed gear box and many control devices. There is nothing that wears like clutch plates or similar. So there is no need for a fluid filter.
The consensus says it’s safe to drain and fill the transmission. bclexus has decided he will die on this hill. Toyota/Lexus revised their recommendations against never replacing the fluid. Users here have replaced the fluid without catastrophic failure and reported that the transmission shifts from M1 to M2 more smoothly. The shift in my car is certainly noticeable and I would replace the fluid if I was keeping it. I’m going back to an ES hybrid however. I replaced the fluid in my old one without any catastrophic failure and drove 50k miles just fine.
07-31-24, 07:01 AM
