LexFather

Well the tax credit does help . And hybrids are the future, period. Toyota has stated they barely make any money on the Prius but the positive reviews and how the public sees Toyota/Lexus as a leader for hybrid tech is priceless.

Its a no brainer, IMO. You get more performance, better fuel economy, maybe a 10% increase in price.
Now if you don't commute much, it might not make fiscal "sense" to purchase a hybrid.

spwolf

First of all, Accord Hybrid is not an full hybrid, and technologically is big step behind HSD. What you are going to have in RX400h is:
- optimized petrol engine with less hp, more torque and 10-15% less gas usage
- electric engine with 70hp (FWD version, it is unknown how fast will AWD version be), that can move the car on its own and massive torque
- CVT transmission
- all by wire controls.

What you have in Accord Hybrid is basically an Hybrid solution to Hybrids. To lower costs, they are using mild-hybrids that cant run on its own, have limiting battery, only 16hp. If using seriously lower tech can actually bring some performance upgrade then using serious hardware will be significantly faster.

Not to mention that AWD version will be more powerful, and as mentioned before Lexus will stress performance in their hybrids so yes, they will be performance oriented. They might not be made to compete with AMG, but then again does AMG version of E class or does M5 cost only 4k more than its "base" version? nope... Do they actually get more power while reducing gas usage and saving the world? nope.

Promise of petrol hybrids is that you can go faster, spend significantly less fuel and save the world. Fast is - you are already going to spend 5k-8k more for V8 engine that goes faster and spends more fuel, why not save fuel and go faster?

RX400h and upcoming GS450h should be more seen as performance upgrades with a twist than compared to their base versions. GS450h should be looked in a sense of what GS430 offers and then clear advantage will be seen.

p.s. HSD system does not cost any more to maintain than a normal petrol engine. Complete system is maintainance free and warrantied for 8 years, 160,000 miles.

biker

So you think Lexus will have the GS450H performance at the GS V8 level (by the time 450H comes out I think we'll be talking about a bigger V8) at the same price or less? Who would ever buy the V8 if that is true? Lexus might make a mistake here and there but I highly doubt it would make one this big.

flipside909

Why are you contstantly such a skeptic w/what Lexus has to bring out? You are so negative but then again you spend more than half of your time posting in the Third Gen GS forums. Are you even going to buy one or are you just here to run it down to the ground with your bias? You highly doubt it would make it big because you have the notion that diesel power cars are going to sell, but in reality, it's not.

The RX400h is already a big hit despite the fact it hasn't even been released yet. There's already a 200 person waiting list at several SoCal dealerships. The Prius was a huge hit to Toyota that they couldn't even keep up with demand at it's release. They are still seeing that growth today. It's just like comparing a Kia Sedona minivan with all it's 10 year warranty will outsell a Toyota Sienna. It's not going to happen.

Lexusfreak

Well said flip.

biker

I guess I didn't make myself clear. What I was trying to say is that while yes the 450H will be offered by Lexus, it's price/performance can't be anywhere near the GS460, otherwise no one will buy the 460. It has nothing to do with diesels - I know Lexus won't sell a diesel in NA for the foreseable future.

flipside909

You made yourself perfectly clear. 1) You never intend to buy a diesel car. 2) You have nothing good to say about the GS450h w/a pessimist attitude. Just wait and see what's to come instead of ranting and nitpicking on what Lexus is going to do for the general consumer. The car isn't even out yet and you're the first to cry wolf.

clexusking

From the CarConnection:

Lexus Readying Second Hybrid

Toyota's luxury arm, Lexus, plans to roll out a second hybrid-electric vehicle with a media preview scheduled during the upcoming New York Auto Show. The GS450h will be the first luxury sedan with a hybrid powertrain, and the first HEV in any form on a rear-wheel-drive platform. Its Big Apple unveiling is scheduled to occur about the same time the first Lexus hybrid, the RX400h crossover, hits showrooms. Company officials are being tightlipped about specific details, but Lexus will start with the new GS430, and mate a version of its Synergy Drive system to the sedan's already beefy V-8. Where early hybrids, such as Toyota's breakthrough Prius, focused on delivering maximum mileage, Lexus is taking a different tack. The RX400h will trade off a bit of fuel economy to increase acceleration. And in the GS450h sedan, the emphasis will be on "pure performance," hinted Lexus General Manager Denny Clements, noting that electric motors deliver maximum torque during initial acceleration. Expect to see the hybrid roll onto the market about a year after the launch of the new, gasoline-powered GS models. -Paul A. Eisenstein

flipside909

I retract my statement now that more info has surfaced.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i am confused, so it's going to be v8 + hybrid?

biker

So that means no GT model and no GS460 either in the short term?

Sounds like the same thing Honda is doing with the Accord.

flipside909

From those press releases from The Car Connection that were posted, looks like it will be a V8 hybrid.

flipside909

GT model is still in the air but Lexus has been considering it for quite some time already. GS460 won't happen until 08 if that.

spwolf

and how is that? Accord has an V8? I dont see why is wrong to have several choices, if you really live in Swiss then you should be used to BMW and MB having 10 different engine choices, with most of them conflicting with each other.

Let me see, you can buy 5 series in germany, right now: 520i, 525d, 525i, 530d, 530i, 535d, 545i.
Most of these engines conflict each other... Honestly, with 530d, you probably dont need any other engine, but we are not all the same and people choose different options. Same thing happens with hybrids as well. It is just an another powertrain option, and however good it might be, it took diesels 50 years to even up with gasoline engines in Europe in terms of sales...

GS having 3 options is hardly conflicting.

p.s. if RX with 225hp engine is being called RX400h, then GS with 280hp engine might be called 450h. Actually, those numbers add up quite nicely :-).

biker

What I meant was that they're going the "performance" route and not the "much better milage route". While the milage is better on the Accord hybrid, the main thing most talk about is the fact that the hybrid was added to the top of the line model and the performance increase. When Motorweek reviewed the Accord hybrid they pointed out that while a good car, the hybrid would be better served in the I4 Accord to provide the "much better milage".