longjohn

What an amazing forum. I started my quest for a sports sedan with pretty much no knowledge of Lexus, and now thanks to this forum, I feel like I know enough to make an informed decision.

I love the new GS430, but given that I hope to have this car for many years to come, the 18 MPG city scares me a bit. It's not at all inconceivable to me that gas could be $5 - $6+/gallon 6-8 years from now. If that turns out to be true, I'll surely wish that I had something that gets better than 18 MPG city.

That's where the GS450h comes in. Faster than the GS430, but potentially much better gas mileage. Given what we've seen thus far with the RX400h, would anyone care to speculate on the following:

What kind of gas mileage could we expect? Would it be better or worse than the RX400h's 28 overall/ 30+ city?

What kind of MSRP could we expect in relation to a similarly equipped GS430? If I read a previous post from Rockville correctly (RX400h info thread), the RX400h has a MSRP about $4500 greater than a similarly equipped RX330. Would we expect about the same spread between the GS450h and the GS430?

I know it's a bit early to speculate, but what the heck. It would be fun to look back 14 months from now and say 'hey look, I called it'. Also, I would love to see a sticky on the GS450h, but understand it may be a bit early.

Thanks for all the great info.

Longjohn
--------------------------------------
no sig or avatar yet

LexFather

Welcome to Clublexus!! Glad you found all the information useful. Well here is my speculation and the why's behind it.
1. The GS 450h will be show in NY next week. So really, only us diehards and Lexus knows about it, so there is no demand created yet.
2. That will change when the car debuts in NY and starts hitting the show circuit, like the RX 400h. The RX 400h has 12k DEPOSITS already, amazing. So I expect another line to buy the GS 450h, but not as many people, maybe 1000-2000 deposits.
3. The RX 400h is a loaded RX 330 with the hybrid tech. It sits atop the RX food chain. Now I am not sure how Lexus will position the 450h in the GS lineup, above the GS 430 (V-8)? But I do expect the 450h to be loaded like the 400h for now, so a loaded GS 300 is around 51k, add another 5k to that, so a 56k 450h is what I expect, unless demand drives the price up. 56k for a loaded GS 450h would be less than a loaded GS 430 at 62k
4. Fuel economy, well, I am not sure if the 450h will use the 3.0 V-6 or the 3.5 V-6 from the Avalon. But both engines rate at about 22 MPG city, 30MPG highway as gas only. With a hybrid, I would expect it to be around 30MPG combined. And this is with increased power. The Lexus gas only engines are already some if not the most efficient compared to its competiton.
5. The RX 400H offers V-8 performance with I-4 fuel economy , looking at test results in multiple magazines. Expect the GS 450h to do the same.

As for the sticky, good call, when we see the car debuted next week, we'll have one (you called it)

flipside909

Welcome!

on speculation.
Facts.

JHStrange

I just did a quick calc on the difference in fuel costs over an 8 year period assuming a 15% annual increase in fuel from $2/gal. to $6/gal.; 12000 miles/year and going from a car that gets 20mpg to 28mpg and came up with a fuel cost savings ovoer that time of $5,686.

Every little bit helps.

Rockville

Long John, I hear you. We are all in the same boat and up until now have been scraping together bits and pieces of information and trying to cobble together the bigger picture. When I was at the Lexus RX Hybrid/GS training in early January we were briefed about the existence of the GS450h which will have the 3.5 V6 coupled with a rear motor /generator in stricly a rear wheel drive format. This surprised us as we thought the Hybrid would naturally be AWD like the RX. The RX400h has a V6 coupled with a front motor/generator in a FWD configuration and a separate Rear wheel motor/generator that comes on as needed. The front and rear motors are not connected to each other and are therefor independent making it an automatic on demand AWD. The purpose of the GS450h is to give Sport performance by adding power to the rear wheels directly with a rear motor generator. If the electric motor/generator is only there to add power and generate electricity when decelerating then the V6 may save the gas usage by being very efficient and the Electric motor will supply extra torque whenever you accelerate. The RX400h uses a Continuously Variable Transmission in a the format of a direct drive Planetary Gear arrangement. I'm not sure this step will be necessary on the GS450h. Since the two vehicles may be quite different in architecture it is hard to infer fuel and power figures from one Hybrid to the other. I do know that the power output will equate to a 4.5 Liter V8 and I would be disappointed with anything less than 350 Horsepower. The V6 alone is capable of 300-320 HP. I heard today from one of our Reps that the GS350 is still in development in Japan and it has been sighted already. The GS450h is the hybrid variant of the GS350 actually.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

why they still use the same 300 hp engine that is used on the 2nd gen. I love the new GS so much but for 62K to get a 300hp car is not worth my move. I love lexus, I only buy lexus, and I am power hunry!!! I really wish lexus can come up a performance division, and a GS with 400+ engine. I will be first in line to put in a deposit.

Rockville

Since you have roads in Nevada that you can drive as fast as you want then maybe horsepower applies to your situation BlackSC. For the rest of us driving from stoplight to stoplight it is the torque fix that we need. The twisting force that pushes you back into your seat when you mash the pedal. Ahh! There is nothing like it. If you add some exhaust and intake sound effects it is even more satisfying. The next V8 from Lexus will be pretty special considering how much torque and horsepower they have squeezed out of the 3.0 V6. With these advances maybe 400HP is not out of the question so save your Benjamins. In the meantime those Lexus Engineers in their white lab coats have devised a V6/Electric hybrid that will probably offer plenty of performance until the new V8 comes out. My guess would be about 370 HP. Now the only problems you will have are the speed limiter setting and your tire speed rating!

longjohn

Hey Rockville,
How does the waitlist process work? Are there waitlists going now for the GS450h, or must it be officially announced first? I've seen people saying they put down their refundable deposit to get on the RX400h waitlist. In what scenarios are the deposits refundable or not refundable?

I'm very much leaning towards getting on the list whenever it starts, but want to be able to pull out if the wait gets too long, or if the finished product starts shaping up in a way I'm not too crazy about.

LEXUS FAN!

I suspect that the price will be somewhere around $64/65,000 with not many options becuase that is basically 5,000 over a fully loades GS 430, and so with a few thousand mroe they are getting a fully loaded hybrid.

My prediction for the mileage is around 34 MPG because the average for the RX is 28, and the accord is 31/37 or something, so it should be somewhere between.

looknow12

Anyone know the details of the New York show? I'm definitely going.

Rockville

Every State may have their own rules about deposits and dealerships can have their own in house rules. The idea is that buyers have signaled their intent by putting money up so it forms a chronological line of buyers. Unless someone places a special order most dealers will refund any deposit if the buyer changes their mind. Another scenario where the dealer may hold the funds is when they have traded to get someone a car from another dealership and have incurred expenses for trucking etc. If the buyer backs out they are left holding the bag so the deposit insures them from this problem. If the buyer chooses another car in inventory they would not lose their deposit even though the dealership still spent the money to have the car transported from another dealer.

I think the announcement of the GS450h will be on March 23rd in Manhattan according to my Reps. I'm assuming that Denny Clements will do a doubleheader with the IS350's debut. I'm hoping to go in early April to the Jacob Javits Center.

Gojirra99

It's a V6 hybrid, not a V8 hybrid, so it'll probably be a few thousand $'s over a fully loaded GS3.

spwolf

heh, yea, I wouldnt be suprised if the pricing is similar to GS430 actually...

While we are talking, I would expect GS450h to be faster than RX400h, and even be better on gas - maybe get something like 35mpg on average, due to lesser weight and better aerodynamics.

GS450h should be seriously fast car...

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

I still like pure V8 performance tho..
the eletric motor just sounds way too advance and might loss some of the feelings when you drive a fast car... I read the review about the rx400h, and the switching in modes just don't do in real racing.
Plus hybrid cars are hard to modify... any new add ons might mess up the computer, in my opinion.
I want to see m5 performance in Lexus!!!!

Rockville

What manufacturer likes performance more than BMW? Porsche right? They just signed up for the Hybrid powertrain from Lexus to put into the Cayenne. You can Modify a Hybrid pretty easily. All you have to do is change the battery to a higher output and you get an instant boost in power. BMW has a Hydrogen fuel cell racer that it is showing in the Autoshow circuit. It is a real exotic. When oil reaches $80 a barrel and then $100 it will be like Mel Gibson in Road Warrior with the supercharged Hemi but no gas at the pump.