I could see your point if the cost of a hybrid was anywhere close to the cost of the non-hybrid equivalent. The increased gas mileage is not worth the higher initial cost.

 

When you replace your battery pack, it will be because it will no longer hold a charge. The battery pack in the junk yard may no longer be able to hold a charge. If that's the case, it would be like replacing a bald tire with another bald tire.

 

actually, I am talking about real life situation when user changed his 250,000 miles prius battery for 500$ and is still going strong...

And in fact, modern diesels such as ML320CDI costs exactly the SAME as RX400h Hybrid.

 

Actually that info comes from over 30 years of of being an auto enthusiast, and learning as much as I could about all cars and associated technologies. Saying that diesels *don't* have a history of reliability is just ignoring reality.

 

And it probably has another 295,000 mi left in it. As a member of the Mercedes Club of America I constantly meet members with over 200,000 mi on their cars and engines. How much you want to bet that NO Hybrid/original engine will EVER see 200,000 mi?

 

which is really all good and cool, but when you say diesel, you are talking about old school tanks. When you say how diesel is more proven than hybrid, I am telling you about new common rail diesels with all alloy design, common rail pumps at 1.6-1.8MBar and nice crackable turbochargers. I know from experience since I work at Toyota/Hyundai dealership, I deal with modern turbodiesels on daily basis. You probably never saw one or rode in it.

I just showed you an example of owner with 250,000 miles when his battery failed. Petrol engine had no extra costs except for major tuneup at 200,000. Still going fine.

New turbo diesels will probably have a lot more problems up to 250,000 miles than hybrid.

 

Sorry you had a problem with your car. It is really disappointing when you have a problem like this with a new car.

However it hardly was a Catastrophic hybrid failure on RX400 . You had a problem with your car, not a disaster of some kind.

As far as some of the other replies are concerned, drawing the conclusion that hybrids are undependable based on one report of an electrical problem is a bit of a stretch.

My two cents.

Jim
2002 BMW M5
2002 SC430
2006 RX400h

 

Jim:

Of course. No lives were lost. I simply meant "catastrophic failure" to mean "complete and utter failure" of the hybrid system which practically required compete replacement of the hybrid system (inverter, cooling system, and battery). I guess I'm using the term catastrophic in the technical sense, not the New Orleans sense.

On the other hand, if Toyota has to pay for many of these repairs, it could be a "catastrophe" for them. Fortunately, it seems like a rare occurrence. I'm not trying to draw undue attention to myself, but I wanted to report on a type of hybrid failure which I have never seen described before (at least not in these forums). Again, Lexus took good care of me, and I'm satisfied.

John

2006 Lexus RX400h
2002 Audi Allroad

 

"Lexus took good care of me, and I'm satisfied."


I think John had an unfortunate experience with his 400h and we (including myself) probably should get away from the "catastrophic" debate as that is just semantics. None of us would wish to have this occur and it in all probability it will not occur with any regularity. John points out the important part which is given a problem of some magnitude, Lexus stepped up and is taking care of the situation.

 

Hi Lexus_Jim, did you get your RX at Dublin? I think I met you on the day you took delivery of your car, I think back in August?

 

Hi JZA80MHU38. Yes I did get my car in August in Dublin. Do you have a Supra?

 

Lexus_Jim, I've been wondering if there are other M5 owners that also own a 400h (or 400h owners who also own an M5 ). 03 Beast and 06 400h here

I think the M5 and the 400h are at the two extreme ends - the M5 begs to be driven, the 400h begs to be driven gently which will reward you with exception gas mileage. My average since new is 25.6MPG, 2200 miles on the car. I do occasionally open it up in the 400h, just to feel the power. Dual personality, more so than the M5 I think.

Actuall, our garage is very similar - instead of an SC430 convertible, we (my better half) also have a VW Cabrio. No no I'm not comparing the VW Cabrio to the SC430

Sorry for getting OT. Just excited to meet another M5/400h owner

 

What is most educational to me about this particular hybrid failure is this: I always thought that if you had a hybrid, and the electric motor failed, then what you would end up with is basically a non-hybrid with some extra hardware in it that doesn't get used. But apparently, at least in this case, the hybrid system is so tightly coupled that you can't limp along with only gasoline power--you can't even limp along.

That was educational.

 

Hi Lexus_Jim,

BINGO! Yes I am that guy. We took delivery of the car late August and that's a surprise present for my wife. So far she has put 4200 miles in it already. I guess that means she really loves it. How's yours so far?

We were thinking about driving it to Bloomington tomorrow for the game, but given the weather, maybe we will just stay home.

 

I really like the combination of the BMW M5 and the Lexus RX400h as well.

Now I'm going to go way OT but many people probably don't know why we're so excited about the BMW M5 and I want to let them know. How about some quotes and stats.....

"The fastest production sedan on the planet."
Road and Track, March 2000

"... the M5 is as close to faultless as any car I've driven. Set the bar as high as you like, this thing will clear it. Unbelievable!
--Jeff Karr - Motor Trend
________________________________________
Specifications
Engine: 5.0 Liter, 90-degree V8, aluminum block and heads
Valve Gear: DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, VANOS continually variable valve timing
Horsepower: 400 @ 6600 RPM
Torque: 369 @ 3800 RPM
Redline: 7000 RPM
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Performance:
(Motor Trend, Road and Track, Car and Driver issues: March 2000) The M5's performance, compared to any production vehicle, is nothing short of stunning. Compared to any other 4 door sedan in the world, it is simply unmatched.
0-60mph: 4.7 seconds (faster than a '00 Corvette)
0-100 mph: 11.4 seconds (faster than a Jaguar XKR)
0-100-0 mph: 15.8 seconds (unmatched by any production sedan)
Quarter Mile: 13.2 seconds at 107.4 mph (quicker than an Aston Martin DB7 Vantage Volante)
Top Speed: 157mph (limited); approx 187mph with limiter removed (faster than Ford SVT Mustang Cobra R).
Braking: 60-0mph: 129 feet; 70-0mph: 156 feet (shorter than a Porsche 911 Carrera 4)
Cornering - 300' skidpad: 0.90g (better than a Ferrari F355 Spider)
Slalom: 64.7 mph (faster than A Lamborghini Diablo)
_________________________________________

More Quotes

"... the best and most consistently enjoyable sport sedan the world has ever known."
Motor Trend, March 2000

"On the track, the M5 is hunkered down and grips the asphalt with confidence and composure. The instant-on electronic throttle response and the precise manual gearbox will bring a smile to any driver."
Road and Track, March 2000

"For people who love cars, the M5 is quite simply the most desireable sedan in the world at any price. What more can we say?"
Car and Driver, March 2000

"Without sounding like a broken record, this is the one car to beat, faster, sharper, not to mention safer, and more luxurious then anything on the market, the best sports sedan in the world then, the best sports sedan now, and maybe even forever."
Motor Week

"The new BMW M5 is simply the best."
European Car, June 2000

All right. Enough about BMWs We'll get back to Lexus. We really love the SC430 - my wife's ride. It is the best convertible we've every had and we've had some really nice ones. And the shared RX400h is a superb automobile that I am growing founder of every time I drive it. We love them all.