ariana8

The RX 400H is rated 31 MPG city, whereas the RX 350 is rated 19MPG city. Highway numbers are far closer.

We took a test drive in a 400H today. The computer in the car thought that mileage was around 22 MPG which was somewhat disappointing. The "product specialist" that was showing it to us said that the driving we were doing (a number of stops and starts but mostly at 25-45 MPH) was really "highway" driving and "city" driving was more like downtown Manhattan (New York City not Manhattan, Kansas) where you crawled along at 5-20 MPH and are lucky to go a few blocks without stopping a few times.

Can any 400H owners share their real world experience as to what actual mileage they get? Maybe the computer figure we saw was just inaccurate; on the other hand, maybe suburban neighborhood mileage IS in the low 20s. Still significantly better than the 15-16 MPG we get in a GX 470 but not exactly what the sticker would lead one to hope for.

Thanks.

sychocism

I live in Manhattan but work in New Jersey. Although I've only had the car for 1 week, I can tell you the MPG reading on the screen is not entirely accurate. Whereas it claimed that I only got about 22 MPG combined city and highway, I actually got 25 MPGs.

HarrierAWD

Also note that it will take several tank full of driving to charge the battery and make the hybrid system efficient. When my sister first got her Prius, it was only giving her mid-30s MPG. Now she gets 48-49 MPG average. I'd expect similar behavior with the RX400h.

smartlexus

You have to remember that those are EPA estimates based on "ideal" driving conditions in other words not the "real" mileage you can expect , I get avg. 24mpg and it seems about what is attainable without having to drive at 15 mph all the time

good luck

rx400hman

We live in VA (suburb Washington DC). Our average is 26.8MPG on our RX400h with 2800 on it .
We are happy with that result compare our previous '02 ML320 16MPG and must use premium only. Our RX400h is using Regular gasoline.

oldcajun

I live in Tucson where most of my driving is in town with traffic lights every mile on busy streets but few long term traffic jams. At 5000 miles, my mileage has settled in to about 27 mpg. On long freeway drives at 75 mph the mileage is similar. The best tankful was just over 29 mph and the worst was 22. I believe some of this variation is measurement errors.

Although I haven't had enough patience to try if for long, I really think that if I drove the 400h for maximum economy I could get 30 mpg in town but it sure would be boring. The same is true on the freeway, at a steady 65 mph mileage would be great but I would have tire tracks all over from being run over by little old ladies in Buicks. The limit on the Interstate here is 75 mph but the traffic flow seems to be at least 80.

Steve

LexRexBlue

I found the posts very interesting. Having driven through those traffic jams in Tucson, I know they are far better for the gas mileage than the highways of NJ. When I drive in town for extended amounts of time, my mileage jumps up to the 30s. However, because most of the time I only drive a mile at a time through town and then jump to highway driving, (My drive to work is only 7 miles of which part is on highway.) I'm only getting 24 mpg. On the other hand I confess that I don't drive to get better mileage. If the conditions allow I'll quickly accelerate, go fast on highways, etc. In town, whatever the traffic dictates I drive. I'm also using regular Shell gas. Premium does give me a couple of mpg increase. My RX 300 only gets a maximum of 17 mpg under the same conditions although highway driving can be 22 mpg.

ariana8

Thanks for all the comments.

If combined city and highway driving was in the mid-20s as some of the responses indicate, and if the RX 350 combined MPG was in the low 20s one wonders if the difference is worth getting either a 2006 RX 400 instead of a 2007 RX 350 and having the outdated nav system among other things, or waiting 4-6 months to see what the 2007 version of the RX 400H looks like.

One might feel a bit green for saving 5MPG but if hybrids fade away the RX 400 resale value may be iffy and if hybrids take off and the state of the art improves greatly the RX 400 resale value will assuredly be poor. Plus more things to go wrong that may be a challenge to have fixed if the car breaks down far from any Lexus dealer.

Since real world combined numbers for pure gasolene cars tend to be better than the sticker city numbers and real world combined numbers for so-called hybrids tend to be worse than the sticker city numbers one really can't look at the 31 versus 19.

Not that I would call the RX 400 a hybrid at all. A hybrid IMO uses multiple types of fuel. The RX 400 is a gasolene only car that uses improved technology to improve the performance the car gets from the gasolene. But you can't feed it ethanol, electricity or any of the other alternative fuels.

On the other hand the RX 350 has zero "greenness" compared to slightly more than zero, and isn't as, er, interesting.

Hmnnnn .....

oldcajun

[QUOTE=ariana8]Thanks for all the comments.
Not that I would call the RX 400 a hybrid at all. A hybrid IMO uses multiple types of fuel. The RX 400 is a gasolene only car that uses improved technology to improve the performance the car gets from the gasolene. But you can't feed it ethanol, electricity or any of the other alternative fuels.]

Ariana,
I'm curious as to where you got your rather strange definition of "hybrid". A hybrid is a combination of two different units that retains some of the characteristics of both. You can find things like hybrid roses or corn or many other things that fit this general definition, The hybrid car is part gasoline, part electric, with some of the characteristics of both. While the current hybrids lean more to the gasoline characterics, future versions may become more electric. Even today's hybrids are a unique answer to the desire for reduced emissions in cities and reduced overall fuel usage without needing a new infrastructure.

As to the relative RX mileages, it certainly depends on how and where your drive. In very heavy traffic with frequent traffic jams, the 400h would still deliver mileage in the high 20s while the RX350 could easily drop to the low teens while creeping along in 5 mph stop and go traffic. At a steady 75 mph on an open freeway, the cars will be close in mileage. Overall in the type of driving I do, I get about 10 mpg better than my neighbors identical RX330 and have significantly better acceleration if I need it. In addition, in hot city traffic, my air conditioner is much cooler than his. As to complexity, if either the RX350 or RX400h became disabled in a remote location, roadside assistance would be required so having the hybrid is no concern to me.

Steve

400H

Our 400H averages about 27.5 hwy/city driving. We live in Dallas, so the highways are stop and go a lot, but overall we are pleased with the cars performance and mileage.

We did a lease on it, and compared to the 2007 RX350, the monthly payment was almost the same, and came with a lot more options than the 350 would have. Plus you get the tax credit at year end, and lower tax paid on the amount of the vehicle.

SilverLady

Current gasoline/electric "hybrids" do not produce power by anything but the gasoline engine (unless you want to include gravity when you go downhill, but by that definition all cars are hybrids). They are essentially great at conserving the power produced by the gasoline engine - but without the gasoline engine providing all the energy, their output would essentially be zero.

All vehicles today convert some of the gasoline power to electrical power via their alternators, and this electrical power is used to power air conditioners and auxiliary devices. Likewise, the electricity is used to spark the combustion in most engines. They also use waste heat for heaters. None of this makes them hybrids.

If we were able to obtain electricity from alternate sources - say standard outlets, solar cells, fuel cells, etc., that would be a different story. The use of batteries, flywheels, etc. to optimize and conserve energy is admirable - but you will never get more than the gasoline engine produces - you can only get what you put in minus various losses due to conversion and other factors.

This is not a value judgement - current "h" type vehicles can save gasoline and reduce pollution. But they are necessarily limited to the energy produced by the gasoline engine in the first place.

ariana8

My definition of hybrid is quite similar to SilverLady's - not an improved gasolene engine but a system that uses other sources of energy as well. We have more of an engineering than a marketing view of the term, in other words.

Getting better mileage is a GOOD thing whether it is called improved efficiency or hybridism.

But as a society we need to eliminate not merely reduce the use of fossil fuels to run automobiles. It is obscenely wasteful to burn such limited resources that could be better used for many other things e.g. various plastics. Not to mention the greenhouse effect <shudder>.

Much better to use renewable resources like vegatable products, or more efficient power sources like nuclear fission reactors generating power into more efficient storage batteries than we now have.

Not to mention the extreme undesirabilty of feeding money and power to our enemies in the middle east, and jeapordizing the protections for our coasts and wilderness preserves if our rather ungreen government succeeds in expanding drilling.

So any engine that remains a gasolene engine - albeit an improved and more efficient one - does not strike me as beneficial as non-gasolene power sources.

Trexus

Very smart move on leasing the 400h. At the end of the lease term you can give the car back and get something else with newer technology. I have this feeling the hybrids won't be able to go 500K miles without any major work done i.e. replacement of the battery after 100K-150K miles.

I have a 1996 ES 300 with over 255,000 miles and I am confident that I can take my car to 500K easily without any major work done...

Rockville

by how you drive. I can drive with abandon and accelerate sharply and brake hard and get 15 MPG on the 400h. If I were driving a comparable V8 I would do worse. If I pay attention to my input on the throttle I can get between 27-28 MPG even with some highway travel. Weight in the car will affect the mileage too as will tire pressure.

The definition of a gas/electric hybrid has been discussed and there are other types of solutions to our energy problems being developed. Some will miss the other benefits of the 400h's ingenious synergy drive. The air we breathe. If everyone drove a hybrid we wouldn't have smog. Hydrogen fuel cells make electricity so Hybrids are an intermediary step since well designed electric motors will be needed for fuel cells also. Where will the hydrogen come from? Not from water as many assume but from methane or natural gas. So you still need a petroleum product even for hydrogen fuel cells. If you run pure electric motors with just batteries then you need to plug into a grid somewhere and have limited range. Where does the grid get its source of energy? Coal, hydroelectric and small contributions from solar/windpower. This needs to change but there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency here in America. We have always enjoyed vast quantities of relatively inexpensive fuel. The rising Mercury in the fish we eat comes from those coal fired plants that emit into the air and wash into the ecosystem. Denmark gets 30-40% of their electricity from wind power. They have wind farms offshore that take advantage of prevailing sea wind. We have numerous mountain ranges that could be tapped for windpower but we have an aversion to clutter on our landscape....

One of my Lexus customers is a retired inventor of solar panels that furnish electricity from sunlight. He sold his company Solarex which is north of here. Now he mainly does consulting and might be as busy as when he ran his company. He spends most of his time in Europe. In Germany if you build a new commercial building it will have a Solar electric component on it everytime. We will have very few buildings in the US with Solar panels. We are Neanderthals when its comes to acquiring energy. We are hunter/gatherers. Europe is becoming farmers of energy. We invent all of the technology in the world and then make it offshore and eventually we get increased competition and quit producing the original invention. It has happened many times but we still continue down this path. Our current energy consumption is not sustainable. Prices will continue to rise at the pump. As they do Hybrids will become more and more valuable.

Toyota and Honda are the only companies to invest in hybrid technology. Ford, Nissan, and even Porsche buy this technology from Toyota. Eventually we will see every model available in a hybrid. In Lexus we will get performance as the main benefit. Improved fuel efficiency and dramatically reduced emissions next. Hybrids will not solve all of our energy problems but it is a step forward. We will all breathe better when there are more of them on the roads.

Rock

400H

I thought the same thing, in 2 or 3 years, technology may make these hybrids seem like a dinosaur, so I can trade it back for something newer, or even buy it out if I want. If I go over 15K miles per year, the .20 per mile is not much, so I'm not too worried about that, heck if I put an extra 10K miles on it, it's only 2K.

If I'm really lucky, people will really want these things and I can put it on EBay for more than the buyout!