Turn your 400h into a 100 mpg hybrid!
07-13-06, 11:34 AM
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Turn your 400h into a 100 mpg hybrid!
A new hack you might want to try in addition to the NAV hack 
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/busin...0233/index.htm
How to hack a hybrid
For 'hybrid hackers' selling plug-in kits for the Prius, high gas prices add up to a big opportunity.
by David Kushner, Business 2.0 Magazine
July 13 2006: 9:19 AM EDT
(Business 2.0 Magazine) -- Rising gas prices and booming sales of the Toyota Prius mean a big opportunity for Pete Nortman. A year and a half ago, the Monrovia, Calif., engineer hacked his Prius by replacing the battery with a lithium-ion version and adding a system that plugs into an ordinary 110-volt socket.
After charging in the garage overnight, the souped-up Prius gets about 100 miles per gallon--roughly twice what a regular Prius gets at best. "This is just the beginning," Nortman says.
Now EDrive, the startup Nortman co-founded, and Hymotion, a competitor based outside Toronto, are set to turn such tinkering into cash. They're the first two companies to market PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) kits for Prius drivers.
The EDrive kit will debut by December with a price of $12,000, installation included. Hymotion's kit, also due later this year, will cost $12,500, a figure that co-founder Ricardo Bazzarella plans to drop to $6,500 by this time next year. He estimates profit margins of 20 to 25 percent and says the success of his business hinges on public awareness.
In that, the hybrid hackers get an assist from nonprofits like Palo Alto-based California Cars Initiative. The group holds public PHEV demos and predicts a market for as many as 100,000 plug-in vehicles (260,000 Priuses have been sold in the United States).
"The goal is to make carmakers build these cars," says the group's founder, Felix Kramer. Toyota's (Charts) response: "We admire the entrepreneurial spirit of the people making conversions," says spokeswoman Cindy Knight. "This is something we're seriously investigating ourselves."
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/busin...0233/index.htm
How to hack a hybrid
For 'hybrid hackers' selling plug-in kits for the Prius, high gas prices add up to a big opportunity.
by David Kushner, Business 2.0 Magazine
July 13 2006: 9:19 AM EDT
(Business 2.0 Magazine) -- Rising gas prices and booming sales of the Toyota Prius mean a big opportunity for Pete Nortman. A year and a half ago, the Monrovia, Calif., engineer hacked his Prius by replacing the battery with a lithium-ion version and adding a system that plugs into an ordinary 110-volt socket.
After charging in the garage overnight, the souped-up Prius gets about 100 miles per gallon--roughly twice what a regular Prius gets at best. "This is just the beginning," Nortman says.
Now EDrive, the startup Nortman co-founded, and Hymotion, a competitor based outside Toronto, are set to turn such tinkering into cash. They're the first two companies to market PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) kits for Prius drivers.
The EDrive kit will debut by December with a price of $12,000, installation included. Hymotion's kit, also due later this year, will cost $12,500, a figure that co-founder Ricardo Bazzarella plans to drop to $6,500 by this time next year. He estimates profit margins of 20 to 25 percent and says the success of his business hinges on public awareness.
In that, the hybrid hackers get an assist from nonprofits like Palo Alto-based California Cars Initiative. The group holds public PHEV demos and predicts a market for as many as 100,000 plug-in vehicles (260,000 Priuses have been sold in the United States).
"The goal is to make carmakers build these cars," says the group's founder, Felix Kramer. Toyota's (Charts) response: "We admire the entrepreneurial spirit of the people making conversions," says spokeswoman Cindy Knight. "This is something we're seriously investigating ourselves."
07-13-06, 11:45 AM
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This sounds like an interesting concept however would the car need to be plugged every night in order to be drivable the next day? I know that one of the big selling points about the hybrids is the fact that you don't have to plug the batteries in to charge them, unlike the completely electric vehicles of years past (EV1). If this system would allow the hybrid to run as usual if not "charged" overnight and then if charged could get the increased fuel economy I think that a package like this could be a big hit.
07-13-06, 06:24 PM
#4
Originally Posted by MJMeucci
This sounds like an interesting concept however would the car need to be plugged every night in order to be drivable the next day? I know that one of the big selling points about the hybrids is the fact that you don't have to plug the batteries in to charge them, unlike the completely electric vehicles of years past (EV1). If this system would allow the hybrid to run as usual if not "charged" overnight and then if charged could get the increased fuel economy I think that a package like this could be a big hit.
It is rather expensive right now but the EV range is enough for quite a number of people to commute to work (either 1-way or even a round trip) without having the engine on.
The thing is, is that it works better for the Prius. Why? Cause we have the option of installing an EV Drive switch (which is standard elsewhere but not on NA Priuses) so we can actually have the engine stay off after turning the car on and come on when we cancel (or if one of Toyota's safety parameters are met - e.g. low battery SOC).
07-14-06, 06:59 AM
#5
this is stupid. you pay $12K (or 6500 if they ever drop the price) for that thing on top of what you already paid for the car. you're still going to be paying electricity costs for this thing and who knows how often or how long you have to charge this thing to actually get 100 mpg. on top of that you still have to have some gas in the car right for the instances when you NEED the battery dies and you need it to run off of gas.
btw, here's the Edrive website: http://www.edrivesystems.com/
btw, here's the Edrive website: http://www.edrivesystems.com/
07-14-06, 11:46 AM
#7
I've always had a problem with people that think that somehow an electric car is non-poluting and is free energy. The power plants that produce the electricity polute and my electric bill is already high enough. I firmly believe that the next hybrid advance will be into more capable batteries so the car can run longer in town on electric power. This will reduce the local polution in cities, and further improve the gas mileage. Longer term, I see hybrids with the complete drive line removed and electric motors at each wheel. The ICE exists only to keep the batteries charged. In that system, the plug in for overnite might be an idea that pays off.
The only really free energy is solar and we are a long way from solar powered cars.
Steve
The only really free energy is solar and we are a long way from solar powered cars.
Steve
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07-16-06, 09:25 AM
#8
Originally Posted by oldcajun
I've always had a problem with people that think that somehow an electric car is non-poluting and is free energy. The power plants that produce the electricity polute and my electric bill is already high enough. I firmly believe that the next hybrid advance will be into more capable batteries so the car can run longer in town on electric power. This will reduce the local polution in cities, and further improve the gas mileage. Longer term, I see hybrids with the complete drive line removed and electric motors at each wheel. The ICE exists only to keep the batteries charged. In that system, the plug in for overnite might be an idea that pays off.
The only really free energy is solar and we are a long way from solar powered cars.
Steve
The only really free energy is solar and we are a long way from solar powered cars.
Steve
The polution with an electric car is MUCH lower than a ICE car, if you consider the well to wheel pollution. With gas, you have drilling, exploration, transportation, pumping, emissions, etc.
With electricity, even if you burn coal, it's much less per mile driven compared to gas. Even if you used gas to produce electricity, you'd have the same pollution as an ICE, but minus the pumping, less transportation to gas stations, and emissions would be MUCH less (the "gas" electric generators would be in a much more controlled environment and less polluting, it would be one "gas" electrical plant versus 10,000 cars for example).
The energy is not free. but if you charge it overnight, the electric companies aren't doing anything extra to make that energy. At night, the electric company shuts down maybe a few generators, but most are kept running. Also nuclear, hydro, wind, etc, keep going. If no one uses that electricity, it's "wasted". There's no energy storage.
- Tony
07-16-06, 11:42 AM
#9
Tony,
Where did you get your data on coal burning electric power plants being much less polluting than a modern ICE. I've been retired from engineering for a couple of years, but the last time I participated in a review, a modern car engine produced less emissions per KW than the coal burning power plant. Their transportation is not without polution either since the coal has to be shipped in.
The only real advantage I see is that the electric generating stations are usually away from major population/traffic centers so they don't add to the concentrated polution.
I once had a disagreement with an environmentalist who insisted that without big oil, all our cars would be hydrogen powered. I asked where the hydrogen would come from and if he knew how much energy it would take to extract it from water. He stormed off insisting that every time he cured all the world's problems some engineer came along and screwed up his ideas.
Where did you get your data on coal burning electric power plants being much less polluting than a modern ICE. I've been retired from engineering for a couple of years, but the last time I participated in a review, a modern car engine produced less emissions per KW than the coal burning power plant. Their transportation is not without polution either since the coal has to be shipped in.
The only real advantage I see is that the electric generating stations are usually away from major population/traffic centers so they don't add to the concentrated polution.
I once had a disagreement with an environmentalist who insisted that without big oil, all our cars would be hydrogen powered. I asked where the hydrogen would come from and if he knew how much energy it would take to extract it from water. He stormed off insisting that every time he cured all the world's problems some engineer came along and screwed up his ideas.
07-16-06, 12:22 PM
#10
Originally Posted by oldcajun
Tony,
Where did you get your data on coal burning electric power plants being much less polluting than a modern ICE. I've been retired from engineering for a couple of years, but the last time I participated in a review, a modern car engine produced less emissions per KW than the coal burning power plant. Their transportation is not without polution either since the coal has to be shipped in.
The only real advantage I see is that the electric generating stations are usually away from major population/traffic centers so they don't add to the concentrated polution.
I once had a disagreement with an environmentalist who insisted that without big oil, all our cars would be hydrogen powered. I asked where the hydrogen would come from and if he knew how much energy it would take to extract it from water. He stormed off insisting that every time he cured all the world's problems some engineer came along and screwed up his ideas.
Where did you get your data on coal burning electric power plants being much less polluting than a modern ICE. I've been retired from engineering for a couple of years, but the last time I participated in a review, a modern car engine produced less emissions per KW than the coal burning power plant. Their transportation is not without polution either since the coal has to be shipped in.
The only real advantage I see is that the electric generating stations are usually away from major population/traffic centers so they don't add to the concentrated polution.
I once had a disagreement with an environmentalist who insisted that without big oil, all our cars would be hydrogen powered. I asked where the hydrogen would come from and if he knew how much energy it would take to extract it from water. He stormed off insisting that every time he cured all the world's problems some engineer came along and screwed up his ideas.
I didn't say coal burning plants pollute less than a modern ICE. I'm comparing well to wheel energy. Basically the "pollution cost" of going 100 miles with an electric car compared to an ICE car. With a coal burning plant, it pollutes at the plant. Transporting the electricity and driving the car doesn't cause pollution.
With an ICE, using the car causes less pollution than burning coal for the miles you get in the car, but with an ICE, from the ground to the wheel, the entire process is more polluting. You have to get the oil out of the ground, transport it, process it, and then transport it again to gas stations. Overall the process is more polluting.
Say there's two universes:
1. Everyone drove a electric car in 2006
2. Everyone drove a gas car in 2006
Overall, universe #1 will be less polluted at the end of 2006 compared to universe #2. Universe #1 will still use gas though for airplanes, etc, but there will be less taken out of the ground, less infrastructure for processing and distrubution of gas, etc. Universe #2 will burn less coal, but overall it's still more polluting than #1. I'm not sure where I read this, but I've read this in several different places. I don't have the exact figures for the pollution caused by each though, so yes this is debatable.
Yes I know hydrogen isn't efficient, creating it uses a ton of electricity. Directly using that electricity to charge batteries is much more efficient. Trade-off is you can't "fill up" a battery in a few minutes. I think that will change with time, though.
- Tony
07-22-06, 12:49 AM
#12
Lexus Champion
Note that electricity power costs more than gas power, even at today's gas price.
Also Lithium Ion battery does not handle heat and vibration as well as the stock metal hydrite battery. So it will not last as long. Also it is more expensive.
Also Lithium Ion battery does not handle heat and vibration as well as the stock metal hydrite battery. So it will not last as long. Also it is more expensive.
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