Husker4the

Still pondering a decision on the 400h ... whether to order or not. What are some things you've noticed about your 400h that you REALLY like ... others that you REALLY dislike. I'm going to list some just going from what I've read and noticed myself. I'm also going to compare it to the RX 350/330

PROS (things that draw me to purchase):

-- Sedan fuel economy in crossover SUV style
-- Smooth CVT transmission (especially vs my jerky RX 330 tranny)
-- Great insulation and quietness (relative to the RX 330)
-- Reliability of Lexus in general
-- V-8 power to go along with increased fuel economy

CONS (things that hold me back from making a deal):

-- Having to order to get the aluminum trim in the '07s
-- NO "miles till empty" function like on the RX 350/330
-- NO Sirius radio through the factory stereo
-- NO iPod auxillary jack (even the older GX 470 has one now, what gives?)
-- The fact that a new RX model will most likely arrive in 16-18 months
-- Compared to the Lincoln MKX it seems to lack some options (heated rear seats ... much better stereo ... more room at the same size -- for less money, but the Lexus would still easily win on fuel economy). Also the same with the Acura MDX as well (except the MDX is larger).

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Now don't get me wrong ... just b/c I have more cons doesn't mean the pros don't outweigh the cons ... it's just that I already know more of the pros b/c I have an RX 330 and haven't listed all of those. I am sort of hesitant b/c the Lexus is later in its model life than some of the competitors, but then again when you get real-world 26-27 mpg in this style, it's hard to compare it to any other cars.

Two things that are REALLY minor, but seem to really bother me are:

The Satellite Radio option ... even if you want XM right now, it's sort of an add-on through Lexus after the fact. Sirius doesn't seem to be available right now at all. Competitors don't seem to have that problem ...

The Aux line in for an iPod or the like ... this CANNOT be that hard! They managed to do it with the older GX 470, yet haven't done it with the RX line for some reason.

Again I think it comes down to the fact that the RX line is nearing the end of its life cycle. Then I see some of the newer cars coming out where it's not even a second thought to incorporate Satellite radio and the iPod jack. Part of it is ... EVERYONE ELSE has been playing catch up with Lexus in this line and they have to make it up somewhere (pricing, options, etc). Lexus has been and still is the top dog.

Please add as much info as you can possibly think of ... agree/disagree, etc.

THANKS!

jobber99

-- NO iPod auxillary jack (even the older GX 470 has one now, what gives?)


I think the tape deck makes up for the aux jack, as long as you don't have to use FM transmitter then everything's cool in my book.

Husker4the

The GX has a tape deck, yet still has an aux jack.

It's not the biggest deal, but still it should have one.

nwizard

I think about tyhe same things, Husker.
does anybody have the hybrid ? what is common impression ?

Bongos

I was going through this in Sept, I ended up with the RX350, here are a few things to consider that I came across.

400h cons:
Cannot not park for prolong amount of time (not more than a couple of months) or the car is in danger of a dead battery...would require tow to dealership and wait for the battery revival device (another thread said there is only two in the USA)

Reason I went with the RX350:
$$$ = I was able to get the RX350 for about $1000 below invoice, dealer can do $1000 below MSRP for the 400h, this equals to about a $7000 difference..I got a FWD loaded with Nav and 18" for $38,100 MSRP $44,146

I drive mostly hwy and am averaging 27 MPG, worst case heavy traffic yielded 24.5MPG

Granted you really could not put a price on saving the environment, unfortunately in my pocketbook, the $7000 is too much of a delta

Mousse

When did you do your deal?

Husker4the

Being a return customer I thought my dealership would at least offer me some kind of discount on the 400h, but they don't seem to want to deal at all. They did say they'd match what I have been offered from other dealers though ($2000-$2500 off MSRP) once pressed. I know it's a business, but I thought my salesguy would come at me with something at least a little better.

Here is my question ... does Lexus even WANT to sell any 400hs? Do they think people will pay what works out to be $7000-$8000 more for a similarly equipped 400h (over the 350 due to discounting on the 350 and little to none for the most part on the 400h)?

I understand some people have gotten some decent discounts on the 400h, but overall you can't work as decent of a deal. I understand it's a supply and demand issue, but Lexus doesn't seem to produce AS many 400hs as they did last year just to keep the demand up ... I don't think it sold QUITE as well as they'd anticipated last year and that's part of the lower supply provided as well.

I'm all for paying the $3400-$4000 premium for the 400h and do a little part to help the environment, but it's ridiculous when it works out to be more like $7000-$9000.

Any opinions?

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

i would NEVER buy the RX400h w/ a $7000 difference... no way.. not worth it..

I got my RX for $750 under invoice, and it was about $3000 difference between that and the 350.. i figure $2000 tax credit makes the difference $1k.. that's the only reason i bought it..

Bongos

I bought my Flint Mica RX350 in late Sept 2007

Kan-O-Z

I too faced this decision and just bought a RX350. Here are my thoughts.

How much are you really saving the environment with a hybrid? Think about disposing off the huge battery at some point in the car's life. Can it be disposed off properly or will it damage the environment? Regardless how you look at it, it is more difficult and expensive to dispose off a hybrid properly to minimize damage to the environment. Now also think about what it takes to produce these huge batteries. There are chemicals and processes that have byproducts and waste and that require energy and materials and equipment. How much do all of these things cost to the environment?

If you think about all these things, are hybrids really saving the environment? Or are they really just shifting the type of damage to the environment from one thing to another?

Another point to note is how are your driving conditions. Is it all bumper to bumper city driving (where the hybrid shines), or is it more of a mixed type driving or highway driving. If it is more mixed and or highway, you may not really gain any benefits of fuel economy from a hybrid. Bongos is averaging 27mpg and I don't think even a hybrid will do much better on the highway. Performance wise, the RX350 and 400h are about the same.

Here are some other things to think about:
-Hybrids will depreciate faster than the gasoline counterpart.
-Hybrid technology is still advancing rapidly and a 4-5 year old hybrid may become obsolete quickly.
-The big battery will need to be changed at some point in the car's life. This is very expensive. I don't know if Lexus covers this.
-Hybrids are very complex and it is more probable for something to fail....although I do know that 400h is a very solid vehicle.
-Towing is not allowed on the 400h whereas it is allowed in the 350....in case you are interested in that.
-The 400h is not full time 4WD whereas the 350 is full time 4WD.

Now for some good things:
-Cutting edge technology will make anyone jealous
-Can't be beat in the city, great fuel economy
-CVT and electric motors are so smooth
-Electric motors provide great amounts of torque at all ranges, especially good at passing vehicles.

Really, you can't go wrong with either the RX350 or the RX400h. Both great vehicles

Kan-O-Z

Husker4the

I have replied above in blue ... I see some of your points, but others are flat out false ... you may have been mis-informed.

Kan-O-Z

Yes if you are concerned just about CO2 emissions, the hybrid is more friendly to the environment. I am not convinced that the hybrid is more friendly to the environment when looking at the bigger picture.

Yes hybrids do appreciate faster than the gasoline counterparts and yes it is because of the quickly changing technology as well as the batteries. I read this in an article on Edmunds I believe.

As far as reliablility, the 350 just came out so I don't think anyone can really make a fair comparison. It may be true that the 400h is more reliable than the 330....but the 350 may be more reliable than the 330 as well and comparable to the 400h. We'll have to wait and see.

The towing thing I may have been mis-informed. I need to look into that again. Someone told me that the Lexus manual on the 400h states that you should not tow. I took their word for it.

The AWD thing I am confident about. The RX350 is full time AWD whereas the RX400h is FWD until the rear is needed. By the way, they improved the AWD mechanism on the 350 as compared to the 330. There was a post on this somewhere, I'll have to find it. If you drive in lots of heavy snow all the time, the 350 may have an edge. I'll have to find some more info...

Kan-O-Z

Husker4the

I'm still not convinced that the RX 350 is full time AWD or really any different than the RX 330 ... I would like to see proof ... if it were, I would imagine fuel economy would've gone down from the '06 RX 330 to the '07 RX 350.

Husker4the

Found this on FORBES, but still doesn't sound like a huge deal.

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The available AWD system can distribute power evenly between the front and rear wheels to maintain traction. It’s improved for 2007 with the addition of a viscous limited-slip center differential, which is said to enhance the vehicle’s traction and drivability on dry or wet roads.

Kan-O-Z

I believe what I am really trying to say is that in the RX350 AWD, all 4 wheels are driven 100% of the time. The power distribution between the wheels is automatically adjusted. I don't know what the distribution is during normal dry conditions. Perhaps 50% front/50% rear? In the RX400h AWD, only the front wheels are driven until slip is detected which is when the rear wheels kick in.

Because of this, the RX350 exhibits NO torque steer. The RX400h DOES exhibit torque steer.

Correct me if I am wrong. I don't have the time to look it up at the moment.

Kan-O-Z