silvervett

OK I just got back to NY from TX last evening. When I drove out to TX last Oct I didn't notice a surge but when I learned about a surge problem from this forum the car was parked in TX and I was in NY. I couldn't be sure if there was a problem with my car and I missed it or didn't notice it. I left TX`last Sunday and drove the car back to NY from TX with a one day stopover in SC to visit my cousins and really paid close attention to see if there was a surge. I couldn't detect a surge so the question I have in my mind is if Lexus can build my car without a surge problem why can't they build all the others the same way? It would seem to me that if Lexus can build one that doesn't surge they can build them all that way. As far as I am concerned the problem has been solved. All Lexus needs to do is just do the same thing to the to the ones that don't work correctly as they did to the ones that do. If they can get one right they should be able to get them all right by duplicating what they did with the good ones.

MadloR

That would seem logical and would be a solution for Lexus on behalf of all RX 400h owners who experiencing surging. Unfortunately, there are too many variable and factors that can go wrong. Lexus did design and engineer the 400h, but alot of the components, software is in fact outsourced. So alot of what goes into building each new vehicle can be different or changed in the course of a production year.

Say for example the manufacturer responsible for the electric motor revises or changes something in the hopes of improving there own manufacturing needs or those of Lexus. That change may be the start or part of the problem that others (I luckily, do not suffer from this surging effect) are experiencing here in this thread. So even though each vehicle is still built in the same original concept and design, there is always the chance of revisions or software upgrades in the various electronics that either together or are part of a compound problem, mitigating this "surging effect".

Cheers,

MadloR

My May 06 production 400h AWD does not experience or suffer from this ill effect. But it did suffer from the dreaded front dashboard noise that required the front dash to be disassembled and have felt padding added as per the Toyota / Lexus TSB fix. Even though this fix was released back on Oct 2005, my vehicle 8 months after the fact somehow managed to slip under the radar, much to the surprise of my Dealer who has not needed to perform the dash fix on any vehicles with January 06 production dates and on.

silvervett

I am all set for my first dealer oil change tomorrow morning. In have had the drivers side air bag light flashing since i got the car (no big thing to me), But the thing that does worry me is within the first week to ten days I had the car the dashboard lights came on but the car was dead. The car wouldn't move the ready light would not come on. I called the 800 roadside number and the car fixed / rebooted itself before they go to my house. I have to discuss this with the dealer because I am worried it could happen again and leave me stranded (for a half hour or until the computer decides to reset itself). I wonder if Lexus is aware of this? BTY Lexus roadside is clueless when it comes to hybrids. The two visits I got from Lexus roadside in NY the one visit I got from L/R in TX, when I said the word hybrid I got a blank stare and a what's that?

Back to the surge issue

It should not be too hard for Lexus to figure out when the problem started and then track back to see what change was made. Was it a software, was it a motor change? Determine what the problem is and do what it takes to make the buyer happy.

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

lexus roadside assistance is just a contract with a tow-truck company in the area.. they have nothing to do with Lexus.. they just tow the car for you to the nearest dealer of ur choice

TwoHybrids

Hello all!

I just joined the forum in order to post and reply; I've been lurking for months now and thought I'd throw down in the fray

My wife & I own two cars, both hybrids: an '04 Toyota Prius and an '07 Lexus RX400h AWD. Our Prius has about 21,000 miles on it and I'm about to hit the grand mark on our 400h. We live in Los Angeles. We purchased both cars.

One of the reasons I've been reading this forum regularly is to pick up on the defects and complaints. These are the best places to hear the dirt. And I have to say, all this complaining about this and that defect/aberration/problem is scaring me! Did I just buy a terribly overpriced, under-researched, badly-supported experiment in luxury markups?



So far, at 1,000 miles, my personal experience has been "No -- I've purchased a terrific family conveyance that is a harbinger of the future of automotive transport."

Our 400h is powerful, smooth, quiet, luxurious, and solid. Maybe I'll feel differently in another, say, 20,000 miles, but so far, that's what it feels like. I compare our 400h to our Prius and to my former daily driver, an '03 BMW 325i sports wagon (a wonderful car but way too small).

As far as "the surge" (sounds like the title to a bad horror flick), I do notice a VERY SLIGHT surge from the electric motor(s) while cruising around the 50-80 mph range, but only SLIGHTLY. It's as if the ECU feels that to maintain the speed you're at it needs to goose the momentum with some electricity action. (It doesn't feel like the surge is coming from the V6. Just the electric motor or motors.)

But the amount of surge is really, really, really tiny. And so far, it hasn't resulted in any actual surge, i.e., the vehicle moving faster ahead. I see the Kw meter needle swing up a bit, I feel the slight thrust in the seat of my pants and through my right foot, but I don't see the speed of the car actually zooming up or faster.

This only happens occasionally and only in that mph range and never while on cruise control.

Annoying? A bit. Only barely above imperceptible? Yes. In fact, if you're not seeking it out, you don't notice it.

And given all the technology of the car, and all its other wonderment, I forgive this. Lexus should address it, but it's such a small blemish it hardly counts to me.

What counts is the amazing power of the 400h, its smoothness and quiet, and its relative lack of environmental degradation (not to mention lessening my personal dependence on foreign oil by a bit). This is a great car. At least, mine is. I don't presume that my experience of my specific car is universal. Perhaps the engineers and assembly line workers in Japan have been getting better with practice :-)

BTW, we continue to love us our Prius! Great car. Really perfect for what it is and what it cost.

My two cents!

silvervett

Two-H, I can't really offer an opinion without driving a car with the surge problem. My car is perfect and I am more than happy with it. But without experiencing the problem it is impossible to tell if the driver(s) are being overly picky or if they are stuck with a problem that Lexus isn't addressing properly. Lexus has an excellent reputation, but a reputation that took many years to acquire can be lost in a short period of time if they don't do everything in their power to make it right. As far as I am concerned I am ready to get another hybrid in 2 1/2 years when my lease expires, but if Lexus doesn't help these people all bets are off. If they muck around with these people this time how do I know that they won't do the same thing to me when I have a problem?

spwolf

your car works fine... I really dont see why are you so into this?

Who knows if it is small or big, different people think different things. I can sometimes feel my Prius turn on/off engines, and sometimes I can not. I would think RX400h would feel even less than that. Not that it never bothered me, I marvel at technology that made all of it possible.

And no wonder Lexus doesnt want diesels in the USA... hell would turn loose.

silvervett

I thought that this was a place to discuss out cars and offer comments, support and suggestions. Does the fact that my car is problem Free preclude me from joining the discussion. I haven't had a moderator tell me that I can't comment if my car hasn't got a problem and until I am told so i will continue to post.

#1 when I first learned about this problem I wasn't sure if my car had a problem because I only drove it about a hundred miles before I drove it out to Texas. I wasn't sure if the fact that my car didn't surge had anything to do with the fact that my car was loaded with a couple thousand pounds of stuff which may had masked the surge

After I drove the unladen car I confirmed the car was problem free but since this was my first Lexus I was concerned as to how Lexus was going to treat the owners with the problem. I have owned many cars ranging from Mercedes to Chevy and I have rented a wide range of cars when I flew to different places on vacation. I love my car but my decision to buy another Lexus will be based on how this situation is handled. If one Lexus owner is mistreated we are all effected because past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. If Lexus treats one owner poorly I can only assume that I may get the same treatment if I Have a problem in the future with this car. And what if my next Lexus does have a problem will I be treated fairly? That is why the resolution to this problem along with the determination of it's cause s very important to me.

Plug Guy

Just had the first reflash for this problem done Weds. Taking the RX on a road trip this weekend, will report back. Mine is apparently their first 'test case' solution, so they are waiting on my feedback as well.

Glad Lexus Engineering went the extra mile to at least attempt resolution. I was told the 'surge' is due to the switching between gas/electric, but that the reflash is supposed to make this a much faster switch. This has nothing to do with the 'gas cutoff' process as when stopped at a light. It's at 60-70-80mph.

We will see....

neelratna

I just posted this in the 40mph surge thread - I guess there is no way to merge both threads.

We did have the micro surges as I call them, happen around the 60mph zone.

The way to notice them is to drive a "normal" car at 65 without a/c and radio in a quite environment as possible. Notice that as you hold the pedal down, there is a constant/smooth response in speed and transmission.
The same is not always true on a few of these hybrid 400hs. Just go on a long stretch of road without major traffic with a/c and radio off and hold at 65mph. You might notice that there are adjustments going on almost constantly and they feel like "micro-lurches".

This is completely separate from other "adjustments" that happen between ICE and hybrid systems at other speeds and in other scenarios - these must be ignored. They are not the lurches and surges we are takling about in this thread and are in fact normal. In most cases you will not notice them unless you are psychologically determined to discover all clicks and bumps that may now be amplified in your head.

Next, we received the EG013-07 patch on our RX400h yesterday and I do confirm that the micro-lurches/surges are gone at 60-70 mph.

On the flip side, the car seems to use less or no battery between 0-30mph as it previously used to and seems to rely more on ICE all the time.

Can anyone say if we should get the older EG020-06 patch too?

We used to hit 23-24mpg. Will wait and post results after another tank or two and see if it is a big concern that the ICE kicks in all the time between 0-30mph.

Plug Guy

Just got back from 400+ mile trip in the RX, as promised, reporting back.

The SURGE IS COMPLETELY GONE. Drove the car at normal street speeds, highway and superhighway (40-60-80) ranges over the course of 200 miles in each direction.

Since I first reported this problem in week two of ownership last Nov, seems like Lexus has worked out the kinks. The engineering folks in CA apparently tweaked the ECU program to make the engage/disengage operation of the electrical side faster, and it made a difference.

So if you have the problem, report it to your dealer and make sure they know the fix is now available. Apparently the download is about an hour, so it's not like jump in and get your latte to go. But it DOES fix the problem!

Thanks.

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

agreed.. my surge is gone also.
but now i am having tire wear problems.. NEVER again first year car..
same goes with the LS460.. NEVER again first year car
but the software update.. SEEMS to get BETTER gas mileage.. but i'll report back later

Plug Guy

Joe, one should have nothing to do with the other. Have your alignment, pressure and balance checked. Something is out of whack. What pressures are you running?

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

yea.. i was just saying that in general.
i am running 34 psi. and the inside of front is completely gone, and back is showing signs.. it's @ the dealership right now.. Lexus Corporate will see what they can do.. I'll be very dissappointed if they tell me it's my fault.

apg97

Very interesting for me to see this thread. I reported same issue on Edmunds.com forum.

I had this 'surge' problem since day we bought it. I was out of town for awhile, so my wife took it to dealer. we got the expected result that the 'expert' tester didnt sense anything, he looked it up in the service bulletins and found that no one else had reported such an issue, so darned interesting that this thread is here because it vindicates me that this isnt a figment of my imagination.

here is how i would describe it. i called it a 'hesitation' rather than 'surge', although 'surge' is what happens after it 'hesitates.' i also get it at both 40 and 60 mph.

The way most obvious for me to create it is the following. At about 60mph going up a moderate upgrade on interstate. I try to keep pedal fairly constant. I get sense power is dying, then it hesitates, and surges ahead. the power guage oscillates down and then up when this happens.

I would say it is a bit better now (13000 miles) than when we bought, but it is still there.

I am just trying to muster up the energy to fight this for months on end, becuase i'm sure i will get an endless stream of 'it's your imagination' or 'it's within spec' This forum helps to show it's not just me. thanks