chocaholic

Boy...someone really drank up the kool-aid. Eco friendly??? What about that cache of batteries in your back seat? Manufacturing impact, disposal of all that lead-acid, not to mention the chemical concerns when gas mixes with acid which mixes with anti-freeze which mixes with oil in a crash. Ask any EMT how they feel about being called to hybrid car wrecks. Eco-friendly is marketing hogwash. Fuel economy is slightly better, but the difference is negligible when you factor in the depreciation of hybrids, and the environemental impact of battery disposal. Honestly, would you ever buy a 4 year old used hybrid? $4,000 for new batteries is a big deterrent.

06lx470

acura rl is a rebaged honda accord that is why it does not sell well

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

Eco-friendly in terms of less carbon footprint.

Sure I didn't take into consideration of when a crash happens, was that kool-aid comment necessary?

chocaholic

Probably not....sorry if I responded a bit too strong. I can feel my blood pressure climb when I hear complete nonsense in the news, and then find out that people actually believe it.

The Hybrid hype about it being more "green" is near the top of the list! And, regarding the carbon footprint....we are a carbon-based life form. Our entire existence is dependant on carbon. There isn't too much of it. Heck, without it, we'd lose it's insulating capacity and freeze to death. Remember, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Pluto have all warmed consistent with Earth. It ain't global warming! And driving a hybrid won't fix what isn't broken.

Ok...off my soap box for now.

Modeler

Before getting so worked up maybe you should get your facts straight! These battery arguments are five years behind times; you're the last one to bring these up. GS450h, just like Prius relies on nickel-metal hydride batteries, not the lead-acid ones. Furthermore, the batteries are designed to last at least 150,000 miles. Over such long life the reduced gas consumption and emissions FAR outweigh the negatives associated with battery disposal. And, by the way, the technology for recycling this type of batteries keeps on improving.

Modeler

George W. is it you? I didn't realize you knew how to use the Internet tubes. I thought that even you admitted last week that global warming was real...

chocaholic

Regardless of battery type, the same issues remain...safety and volatility in a crash, cost of manufacturing and disposal, horrible depreciation, and NO IMPACT what-so-ever on the melting polar ice caps (which have melted and frozen countless times throughout history). Clearly the point was lost on you Mr. Gore.

Here's the questions you didn't answer....would you buy a 4 year old hybrid? Will driving a hybrid help cool Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Pluto (all have warmed in synch with each other)? Will driving a hybrid somehow eliminate the long and documented cyclic warming and cooling of most planets?

No need to really answer. We won't convince each other anyway. Just some interesing cyber discussion...

timeToy

iTrader: (11)

Are you freaking kidding me ? We are not talking about global freezing but global warming. In case you where sleeping during your 8 grade science class, carbon is the #1 greenhouse gas, it has been proven time and time again by all the scientific community (not the one financed by oil company though) that the balance of gases in the atmosphere is really delicate and that there is indeed TOO MUCH carbon in the atmosphere.

There is indeed a documented cycle of heating and cooling of the planet, but nothing as fast and as extreme as the one we are experiencing right now. The reason being human impact and most of all carbon emission in the atmosphere.

Now if you want to keep you head buried in the sand, do not worry, only your *** will heat up.

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

Since there isn't too much carbon... How about let's take all the carbon atoms in glucose and turn them into carbon dioxide? Or even carbon monoxide for that matter?

So what's the purpose of a designing/owning/driving hybrid car anyway in your opinion?

steverhode

Based on the new EPA estimates, which will be in effect shortly, the combined city/highway miles are:

2007 GS450h: 23
2007 GS350: 22
2007 GS430: 19

While we don't know what the GS460's mileage will be, I'm guessing that it'll be close to the 430 since the engine is newer (better mileage probably) but has more horsepower (less mileage probably), which means they'll probably cancel each other out.

The difference between 19 mpg to 23 mpg will barely be noticable for most drivers.

timeToy

iTrader: (11)

The point is not gas millage, though it's good that it is better, the point is CO2 emissions, the Lexus US website do not give any information on this, because, you know, the US **** on the Kyoto protocol, so CO2, who cares ?
But in UK you can find this information, here is the break out:

GS 430: 269 g/km
GS 300: 232 g/km
GS 450h: 186 g/km

The champions are for sure the Toyota Prius and the Civic Hybrid
Prius: 104 g/km
Civic Hybrid: 109 g/km

So 178% the CO2 emissions of the Prius, but 69% the one of the GS430.
I believe it make a difference, it may not save the planet in the end, but it send the message that more efficient engines and motors needs to be used, and for sure the economic aspect do not make sense, but I can afford it and the impact on my Karma is priceless.


For reference:
Lexus LS460: 261 g/km
Mercedes E500: 280 g/km
Hummer H3: 327 g/km
BMW M5: 357 g/km
Aston Martin Vanquish S: 448 g/km

Source: http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't cost the Earth to save the planet.

PharmISee

I happen to know michelle kwan has a GS450h. A little factoid.

LexFather

Well it will be the same engine as the LS 460 and I think that is 20 combined and since the GS is lighter, it might get 21....not sure

chocaholic

At any given moment in time, there are a minimum of 25,000 commercial aircraft in the skies over the US alone (far more during daytime hours). 24 hours, 7 days a week...with no catalytic converters. They are pumping incredible quantities of combustion products DIRECTLY into the atmosphere...30,000 feet in the air. Why is no one concerned?

One volanic eruption (a natural occurance, mind you) pumps more combustion products and general filth into the air than all those airplanes. Why is no one concerned?

How many tons of combustion products are pumped into the atmosphere by commercial rocket launches that place all those satellites in orbit that you use to find your way to the gas station to fill up your "green" hybrid? Why is no one concerned?

Reducing CO2 emmissions by counting g/km of CO2 output is like trying to empty the ocean with an eyedropper. It's beyond silly.

Head in the sand...indeed!