Heresy, I guess ... but WHY the LS600h?
07-07-08, 01:16 PM
#16
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Owners of high end cars think differently. I have friends with Bentleys, and fuel economy and luggage space is the furtherest thing from their minds.
As a new owner, it was the ride, technology and driving experience that caught my attention. I could care less about how the car is viewed by others - in fact I doubt whether 99% of the population know about its advanced price or greeness.
I like the way it sits in an airport carpark and I have to look twice to find it - unlike my other cars which have been distinctive in every way.
From what I see, Lexus occupies a neutral space in the pecking order of status vehicles. It is benign, neither seen as ultra expensive nor having the cachet of a badge like the other European contenders. That suited me right off - I'm not comfortable about the bragging rights of Bentleys or Rollers, though I will probably buy one of them just because everyone should own one before they die.
I judge how people react to my cars by the way they follow me. With the Mercs and even the LX470, they kept a respectful distance. With the LS600 they tailgate like normal. It's very reassuring
Like other LS600h owners, I'm very impressed with the technology. Never had a car with so much gadget promise fulfilled. Everything I wanted in a car is there. Having only briefly had a car phone, back in the days when you had to plug the speaker into the cigarette lighter, every time my iPhone rings through the speakers, I beam. Beautiful bluetooth!
I used to like engines because they were open and had shiny bits I could waste my time polishing. But with my LS600h I've never opened the hood even now, and only know what's in there from some owner's manual picture. It is a giant metallic slab of mystery that should be rightfully seen by the people at the dealership who know best, and that's how I like it today.
The downside of ownership, however, is huge. I bought well, so depreciation isn't a factor for a few years. But eventually the world will turn fully electric in a very short time, and this will be a dinosaur. The price will plummet, but that's not a problem because I won't be able to sell it anyway. So I bought it knowing that I'm paying dearly for the privilege of ownership.
No matter - many owners richer than me have dropped many k's on whimsical purchases and gone on to better things. One guy I know has spent the equivalent of his purchase price again doing up an old Rolls Royce. It's money lost forever, but the satisfaction factor is huge.
It's like that with cars. We don't really need them, but if you have the itch it must be scratched.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
As a new owner, it was the ride, technology and driving experience that caught my attention. I could care less about how the car is viewed by others - in fact I doubt whether 99% of the population know about its advanced price or greeness.
I like the way it sits in an airport carpark and I have to look twice to find it - unlike my other cars which have been distinctive in every way.
From what I see, Lexus occupies a neutral space in the pecking order of status vehicles. It is benign, neither seen as ultra expensive nor having the cachet of a badge like the other European contenders. That suited me right off - I'm not comfortable about the bragging rights of Bentleys or Rollers, though I will probably buy one of them just because everyone should own one before they die.
I judge how people react to my cars by the way they follow me. With the Mercs and even the LX470, they kept a respectful distance. With the LS600 they tailgate like normal. It's very reassuring
Like other LS600h owners, I'm very impressed with the technology. Never had a car with so much gadget promise fulfilled. Everything I wanted in a car is there. Having only briefly had a car phone, back in the days when you had to plug the speaker into the cigarette lighter, every time my iPhone rings through the speakers, I beam. Beautiful bluetooth!
I used to like engines because they were open and had shiny bits I could waste my time polishing. But with my LS600h I've never opened the hood even now, and only know what's in there from some owner's manual picture. It is a giant metallic slab of mystery that should be rightfully seen by the people at the dealership who know best, and that's how I like it today.
The downside of ownership, however, is huge. I bought well, so depreciation isn't a factor for a few years. But eventually the world will turn fully electric in a very short time, and this will be a dinosaur. The price will plummet, but that's not a problem because I won't be able to sell it anyway. So I bought it knowing that I'm paying dearly for the privilege of ownership.
No matter - many owners richer than me have dropped many k's on whimsical purchases and gone on to better things. One guy I know has spent the equivalent of his purchase price again doing up an old Rolls Royce. It's money lost forever, but the satisfaction factor is huge.
It's like that with cars. We don't really need them, but if you have the itch it must be scratched.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
Last edited by LS600guy; 07-07-08 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Changed LS500h to rightful designation!
07-07-08, 02:31 PM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
But one of the things the LS seems best suited for is highway cruising ... long, leg-stretching miles of high-speed interstate. And the 600 just sucks gas compared to the LS460.
Not worried about how much gas you burn? Hey, that's okay by me. But I am practical enough to see that extra $40 a day going for something besides wasted gas ... maybe a big juicy steak when I stop for the night, or admission to a park or other attraction along the way. And over the course of a week's trip, that's a good $280 I've saved over the LS600h guy.
And the "greeness"? Come on, it's not green to burn extra gas!
What I'm hearing is that you guys have the bucks to spend on it and enjoy the aura of it, and I'm good with that.
.
.
07-07-08, 02:51 PM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
I agree with you!
To answer Mike_TX's original question I can only tell you why I purchased my LS600hL. Technology. I own a technology company and my decision to purchase was not based on price, gas mileage, or 0-60 performance alone. It was the entire package that makes it currently the most technologically sophisticated vehicle on the market. This is why I owned the LS430 Ultra Luxury edition before and why I have a Tesla Roadster on order now.
If practicality were the only factor when purchasing a car we would all be driving a Toyota Corola. But it's not. Personally I think Lexus did an excellent job of making a unique vehicle that will not appeal to everyone... just those who can see the merits of owning something advanced and different.
Like I said at the beginning, this is why I bought one. That's the great thing about capitalism... we all have the choice to purchase what we want. Obviously there are enough people paying the $30K premium to make it worth it for Lexus to build them.
If practicality were the only factor when purchasing a car we would all be driving a Toyota Corola. But it's not. Personally I think Lexus did an excellent job of making a unique vehicle that will not appeal to everyone... just those who can see the merits of owning something advanced and different.
Like I said at the beginning, this is why I bought one. That's the great thing about capitalism... we all have the choice to purchase what we want. Obviously there are enough people paying the $30K premium to make it worth it for Lexus to build them.
To those who disagree, I see your points as well and they are well thought out. It again doesnt just depend on affording it because im sure there are wealthy people who wont pay that much but, this is America and with alot of our freedoms being taking away, lets enjoy those we still have. Congrats to anyone who can afford and owns one of these cars!
L.G.N.M
07-07-08, 05:03 PM
#19
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I like the larger-than-life property developer in our country with a penchant for American gas guzzlers and 12 cylinder anythings. He has about 30 cars in his collection, and says he is greener than anyone because he can only drive one car at a time - thereby saving the other 29 from being used on the roads. A major saving.
The more you have, the greener your excuse!
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
The more you have, the greener your excuse!
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
07-07-08, 06:18 PM
#20
No regrets whatsoever
I've had my LS600hL for about a year now and I have no regrets about purchasing it. Like my previous two LS's, I've only had to take it to the dealer for normal maintenance, quite a difference from other manufacturers.
My primary reason for purchasing it over the LS460 was AWD. There were times when my LS430 with snow tires was stuck at the bottom of my somewhat steep driveway. The LS600hL takes the driveway with aplomb.
Another major advantage is the CVT. The downshift hesitation problem of my LS430 is gone, gone, gone. Step on the gas at any speed and whooooosh. To me, the hesitation was a safety problem. The transmission is absolutely stepless....Just another way in which the LS600hL is smoother than the LS460.
In 2 years, when my lease is up, I'll have to decide whether to purchase the LS600hL or move to an AWD LS460. The decision won't be easy.
In addition to the above items, I enjoy little things about the LS600hL, like moving noiselessly past pedestrians or other drivers who then glance around quickly when then notice my silent moving vehicle.
And speaking about noiseless, I've often been driving and notice that the loudest noise in the car is the turn signal. When I turn the signal off, the silence while I'm driving down the road is tomblike.
As I said, little things.
The major reason AGAINST the LS600hL was the small trunk, but I've found that I've adjusted to it......
As to miles per gallon. PLEASE. At 15000 miles per year and $4.00 per gallon, a 5 MPG difference is $600 a year, hardly a factor for most purchasers of LS's.
HBH
My primary reason for purchasing it over the LS460 was AWD. There were times when my LS430 with snow tires was stuck at the bottom of my somewhat steep driveway. The LS600hL takes the driveway with aplomb.
Another major advantage is the CVT. The downshift hesitation problem of my LS430 is gone, gone, gone. Step on the gas at any speed and whooooosh. To me, the hesitation was a safety problem. The transmission is absolutely stepless....Just another way in which the LS600hL is smoother than the LS460.
In 2 years, when my lease is up, I'll have to decide whether to purchase the LS600hL or move to an AWD LS460. The decision won't be easy.
In addition to the above items, I enjoy little things about the LS600hL, like moving noiselessly past pedestrians or other drivers who then glance around quickly when then notice my silent moving vehicle.
And speaking about noiseless, I've often been driving and notice that the loudest noise in the car is the turn signal. When I turn the signal off, the silence while I'm driving down the road is tomblike.
As I said, little things.
The major reason AGAINST the LS600hL was the small trunk, but I've found that I've adjusted to it......
As to miles per gallon. PLEASE. At 15000 miles per year and $4.00 per gallon, a 5 MPG difference is $600 a year, hardly a factor for most purchasers of LS's.
HBH
Last edited by Helmar; 07-07-08 at 08:12 PM.
07-07-08, 08:27 PM
#21
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Posts: n/a
The LS 600h L like most cars over 100k is not a rational decision and is ANY car worth over 100k? We have the same question asked about cars costs much less. Why get the RL when you can get a TL? Why get an ES when you can get a loaded Camry? Why get an LWB over a SWB LS?
SO what do we have?
1-The GRANDEST vehicle to come out of Japan, PERIOD. Lexus created a car no other Japanese brand can even contemplate. This is THE crown Jewel sedan of not just Lexus but Japan.
2- Lexus halo vehicle. You ARRIVE in a 600h L. This is a car meant to compete with the German V-12s.
3 Exclusivity. Only 5k are made a year worldwide. It was actually special order in the USA.
4 The greatest hybrid currently made. Is it going to get you 40 MPG? No. It will get you at least 20% better fuel economy than the GErman V-12s and its SULEV compliant. Its a conversation piece, this is THE hybrid today.
5 Features, from LED lights to the only AWD LS, special colors etc.
6. The LS 600h L is priced much lower than the Germans. Only the A8 W-12 is close in price.
Its funny but it seems people totally accept a German or Italian "STATEMENT" vehicle but the Japanese cannot do so. Lexus is continuing their pursuit to truly join the Germans as Tier 1 brand worldwide, not just in America.
Lets look at Porsche, who has MASTERED the art of selling different models of the same car. I'm a Porsche addict, and tons of reviews question is a GT3 worth twice as much as a base 911? The GT2 is 3 times are much as a base 911?
SO what do we have?
1-The GRANDEST vehicle to come out of Japan, PERIOD. Lexus created a car no other Japanese brand can even contemplate. This is THE crown Jewel sedan of not just Lexus but Japan.
2- Lexus halo vehicle. You ARRIVE in a 600h L. This is a car meant to compete with the German V-12s.
3 Exclusivity. Only 5k are made a year worldwide. It was actually special order in the USA.
4 The greatest hybrid currently made. Is it going to get you 40 MPG? No. It will get you at least 20% better fuel economy than the GErman V-12s and its SULEV compliant. Its a conversation piece, this is THE hybrid today.
5 Features, from LED lights to the only AWD LS, special colors etc.
6. The LS 600h L is priced much lower than the Germans. Only the A8 W-12 is close in price.
Its funny but it seems people totally accept a German or Italian "STATEMENT" vehicle but the Japanese cannot do so. Lexus is continuing their pursuit to truly join the Germans as Tier 1 brand worldwide, not just in America.
Lets look at Porsche, who has MASTERED the art of selling different models of the same car. I'm a Porsche addict, and tons of reviews question is a GT3 worth twice as much as a base 911? The GT2 is 3 times are much as a base 911?
07-07-08, 09:27 PM
#22
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...Another major advantage is the CVT. The downshift hesitation problem of my LS430 is gone, gone, gone. Step on the gas at any speed and whooooosh. To me, the hesitation was a safety problem. The transmission is absolutely stepless....Just another way in which the LS600hL is smoother than the LS460....
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
07-07-08, 10:03 PM
#23
Hmmm ... I don't think practicality and nickle and diming are necessarily the same thing. If I were practical, I wouldn't be driving a $70,000+ car in the first place.
But one of the things the LS seems best suited for is highway cruising ... long, leg-stretching miles of high-speed interstate. And the 600 just sucks gas compared to the LS460.
Not worried about how much gas you burn? Hey, that's okay by me. But I am practical enough to see that extra $40 a day going for something besides wasted gas ... maybe a big juicy steak when I stop for the night, or admission to a park or other attraction along the way. And over the course of a week's trip, that's a good $280 I've saved over the LS600h guy.
And the "greeness"? Come on, it's not green to burn extra gas!
What I'm hearing is that you guys have the bucks to spend on it and enjoy the aura of it, and I'm good with that.
.
.
But one of the things the LS seems best suited for is highway cruising ... long, leg-stretching miles of high-speed interstate. And the 600 just sucks gas compared to the LS460.
Not worried about how much gas you burn? Hey, that's okay by me. But I am practical enough to see that extra $40 a day going for something besides wasted gas ... maybe a big juicy steak when I stop for the night, or admission to a park or other attraction along the way. And over the course of a week's trip, that's a good $280 I've saved over the LS600h guy.
And the "greeness"? Come on, it's not green to burn extra gas!
What I'm hearing is that you guys have the bucks to spend on it and enjoy the aura of it, and I'm good with that.
.
.
and on a reality check point of view, for people who can shell out over 100k for a car without breaking a sweat (those who stretches to buy a car, what can i say), gas price is definitely not one of their concerns. i for one don't have the kind of money yet, but i know people with that kind of money. 1000 bucks a month for gas is nothing for them, they probably spend close to that a month just to detail their cars. and i am sure they have extra for meals and trips.
put it in perspective, it's like people affording corollas wondering why ls460 owners would spend 80k on a car, which eats more gas, use more expensive gas, a lot of features that we hardly use, and never "fast" in every day traffic. but hey, guess what, some people, they just can
my boss has 10s of millions, he's a very humble guy. he says every stage of "money" makes people think very different, and people under that will hardly understand. when you have 100k, you think a bit different. when you get to 1mil, you change a bit. when you have 10mil, things become more different, etc...
Last edited by rominl; 07-07-08 at 10:08 PM.
07-08-08, 06:59 AM
#24
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The earlier point that "the extra $30,000 is a lot of gas" really caught my attention.
If today's pump prices never changed, that extra dough would fuel an LS 460L for about 150,000 miles.
Sheesh!
I'm afraid I have a hard time letting this go because hybrids are marketed expressly for fuel economy.
Indeed, the people who can afford a $100k car are likely not as concerned about fuel consumption; but they need to REALLY throw it into the wind given the faulty economy of the 600h (with emphasis on the "h"). LS600h owners purchase the top of the line; the extra features; the exclusivity and the high technology. JMO.
So in a contorted way, I agree with the earlier posts.
If today's pump prices never changed, that extra dough would fuel an LS 460L for about 150,000 miles.
Sheesh!
I'm afraid I have a hard time letting this go because hybrids are marketed expressly for fuel economy.
Indeed, the people who can afford a $100k car are likely not as concerned about fuel consumption; but they need to REALLY throw it into the wind given the faulty economy of the 600h (with emphasis on the "h"). LS600h owners purchase the top of the line; the extra features; the exclusivity and the high technology. JMO.
So in a contorted way, I agree with the earlier posts.
Last edited by vanlex; 07-08-08 at 07:17 AM.
07-08-08, 12:37 PM
#25
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Interesting thread! I've learned as much about the whims and fancies of the human population as I have about the Lexus.
What really comes out in all these them-vs-us threads is that we're primarily a bunch of logical thinkers trying to justify our emotional decisions. And it's fun to watch (and take part)
Like many others here, I am rational and orderly to a fault. When I unload the dishwasher, all the cup handles must face the same way on the shelf
In spite of my engineer-like brain, my LS600hL was an immediate must-have primal decision - made within minutes of climbing in behind the wheel.
Not many cars do that to me... the LS600h is special and I don't really know why. But certainly mpg, comparison with other models and general utility/usefulness had nothing to do with it.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (for sunshine)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain car & runaround)
What really comes out in all these them-vs-us threads is that we're primarily a bunch of logical thinkers trying to justify our emotional decisions. And it's fun to watch (and take part)
Like many others here, I am rational and orderly to a fault. When I unload the dishwasher, all the cup handles must face the same way on the shelf
In spite of my engineer-like brain, my LS600hL was an immediate must-have primal decision - made within minutes of climbing in behind the wheel.
Not many cars do that to me... the LS600h is special and I don't really know why. But certainly mpg, comparison with other models and general utility/usefulness had nothing to do with it.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (for sunshine)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain car & runaround)
Last edited by LS600guy; 07-08-08 at 12:40 PM.
07-08-08, 11:15 PM
#26
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Posts: n/a
seriously, if you can't really get away from comparing gas mileage between ls460 and ls600hl, then go look at the gas mileage between s550 and s600, or the 750 ad the 760 first. once you can explain that, come back and look at the lexus comparison (which shouldn't have been one)
and on a reality check point of view, for people who can shell out over 100k for a car without breaking a sweat (those who stretches to buy a car, what can i say), gas price is definitely not one of their concerns. i for one don't have the kind of money yet, but i know people with that kind of money. 1000 bucks a month for gas is nothing for them, they probably spend close to that a month just to detail their cars. and i am sure they have extra for meals and trips.
put it in perspective, it's like people affording corollas wondering why ls460 owners would spend 80k on a car, which eats more gas, use more expensive gas, a lot of features that we hardly use, and never "fast" in every day traffic. but hey, guess what, some people, they just can
my boss has 10s of millions, he's a very humble guy. he says every stage of "money" makes people think very different, and people under that will hardly understand. when you have 100k, you think a bit different. when you get to 1mil, you change a bit. when you have 10mil, things become more different, etc...
and on a reality check point of view, for people who can shell out over 100k for a car without breaking a sweat (those who stretches to buy a car, what can i say), gas price is definitely not one of their concerns. i for one don't have the kind of money yet, but i know people with that kind of money. 1000 bucks a month for gas is nothing for them, they probably spend close to that a month just to detail their cars. and i am sure they have extra for meals and trips.
put it in perspective, it's like people affording corollas wondering why ls460 owners would spend 80k on a car, which eats more gas, use more expensive gas, a lot of features that we hardly use, and never "fast" in every day traffic. but hey, guess what, some people, they just can
my boss has 10s of millions, he's a very humble guy. he says every stage of "money" makes people think very different, and people under that will hardly understand. when you have 100k, you think a bit different. when you get to 1mil, you change a bit. when you have 10mil, things become more different, etc...
The earlier point that "the extra $30,000 is a lot of gas" really caught my attention.
If today's pump prices never changed, that extra dough would fuel an LS 460L for about 150,000 miles.
Sheesh!
I'm afraid I have a hard time letting this go because hybrids are marketed expressly for fuel economy.
Indeed, the people who can afford a $100k car are likely not as concerned about fuel consumption; but they need to REALLY throw it into the wind given the faulty economy of the 600h (with emphasis on the "h"). LS600h owners purchase the top of the line; the extra features; the exclusivity and the high technology. JMO.
So in a contorted way, I agree with the earlier posts.
If today's pump prices never changed, that extra dough would fuel an LS 460L for about 150,000 miles.
Sheesh!
I'm afraid I have a hard time letting this go because hybrids are marketed expressly for fuel economy.
Indeed, the people who can afford a $100k car are likely not as concerned about fuel consumption; but they need to REALLY throw it into the wind given the faulty economy of the 600h (with emphasis on the "h"). LS600h owners purchase the top of the line; the extra features; the exclusivity and the high technology. JMO.
So in a contorted way, I agree with the earlier posts.
There are those that wish Lexus would dial the performance back some for more economy. Lexus listened as the Lexus version of the Prius comes next year.
Has anyone thought that the LS 600h L has 438hp, the most in Lexus short history?
Not bad for a "hybrid"
07-09-08, 10:22 AM
#28
fuel efficiency is important even if the fuel cost is low.
It has nothing to do with cost, it is a matter of respect to our mother earth, and encouraging the manufacturers to respect nature other wise what we are doing.
It has nothing to do with cost, it is a matter of respect to our mother earth, and encouraging the manufacturers to respect nature other wise what we are doing.
Last edited by MythBuster; 07-09-08 at 10:27 AM.
07-09-08, 03:08 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
I'll preface this by saying the I'm a huge Lexus fan...
but I don't really "get" the 600, either.
-Performance is good but not stunning.
-Fuel economy is lackluster, but good for a big sedan I suppose
-It's even heavier than the 460
-It's only exclusive to someone who knows what a 600 is and realizes that it is not a 'run of the mill' 460
For the same $, my behind would be driving a Quattroporte.
The price of admission is worth it for the sound alone!
but I don't really "get" the 600, either.
-Performance is good but not stunning.
-Fuel economy is lackluster, but good for a big sedan I suppose
-It's even heavier than the 460
-It's only exclusive to someone who knows what a 600 is and realizes that it is not a 'run of the mill' 460
For the same $, my behind would be driving a Quattroporte.
The price of admission is worth it for the sound alone!
