vrferrari

OK.....f....it......
I want Lexus to build me an 09 GS hybrid with either the 600h or IS-F engine/transmission combination, IS-F brakes and sport interior with paddle shift, for a starting base price of $62,000.00

Base 450h is 55k
Base IS-F is 56k
Base LS is 62k

Give me the option to order my bad a$$ GS now !!!!! Geezzzus....

Any takers ?

whlkev

it just makes no sense for the price range of this supposed GS-F

with the poor sales of GS, Lexus is almost certain that people with that kind of budget will take the IS-F over the GS

now with the GS-F approaching the price of LS, unless you are single and don't care about space. Flagship LS is hard to ignore

and to make the GS-F into the price range of a bmw M5, that's just suicidal

I dunno, with the economy like this, i really doubt we'll see this anytime soon

vrferrari

I see you already drive a GS460.
If a version of the GS I propose was available, would you have even considered it ?

Just thinking out loud......

Could it be the lagging sales of the GS is directly attributable to the lack of distinguishing performance characteristics?
The IS has gotten bigger interior wise...so much to the point that I would actually consider one.
I don't know about anyone one else, but I own the GS for it's looks, performance, and ergonomics that allow me to carry 3 additional passengers for long trips in relative comfort.

You can currently order a GS450h maxed out in options and it already touches base LS price point.

The LS doen't fit my personality.

I thought long and hard about an E55, but the fuel cost and questions regarding long term reliablity came into issue.
Didn't care much for the current BMW design queues with the 5 series, including the M5.
Cadillac has the new 559hp V series CTS and STS coming this model year.

IS-F's, while not flying on the showroom floor, are still selling.

Wish Lexus would just allow me to by my dream GS......
my 20+ mpg city driving, 450+hp luxury sedan.

thats all.

vrferrari

..and by the way....I agree with you on the economy issue in general (and the economics of scale that would go into this endevour) but I also see other marque players building uber sedans. I not saying the're selling like hot cakes, but I think if Lexus is going to want to keep pace with their competion is the sport sedan arena they are going to need to step up to the plate.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i personally disagree about a gs-f "colliding" with LS. the two cars are so different and the audience are very different too. just look at the m5 vs 7 or the e63 vs s. their price point are kind of overlapping with each other too, but they are so different cars, i don't see m5 or e63 buyers look at the 7 or s.

on the gs-f, if they make it, i say it will be 20k more than the gs460, making it around 80-85k for a relatively loaded one. just like is-f being 20k more than the is350. that's still a tad under competition and still warrant for the upgrades

power wise, 450hp would be a total joke, they might just as well scrape the project. the car needs to have 500hp for people to even look at it.

market wise, right now it's bad market for any cars over 60k in general. so it might not make much sense for lexus to release a gs-f now. but when market is back to normal? a gs-f is needed if lexus wants to stay competitive

vrferrari

I agree with most of your post.
But, if a hybrid powered F could get me advertised 4.5 second 0-60;s and high 12' 1/4's (at least matching or exceeding the IS-F) while returning 20+ mpg city driving, I think the rated HP would be a moot point. I'm ok with not cresting the 500 hp mark if the car could perform like it had it !

And using the IS-F vs IS350 comparison, I agree that a fully loaded F comes in at a 20k premium, but if all I wanted was the performance aspects, I think a base 350 is 39k vs 56k for the F ?

Ah..the market side of things. I don't claim to have any numbers on sales and what not, but I see many a V8 powered 5 series and E class cars running around. True, the average Joe can't purchase 60k vehicles but the average Joe couldn't afford to buy the GS400 cars when they first came out either.
If you were to believe all the post you see, everyone is claiming that the new Nissan GT-R can't be had for anything less than 20k over msrp and the're selling like hot cakes at those bloated prices.

To me, when you get over the 50k range, you're talking to a different demographics that just might have the assets to look at anything between 50-70k. Add "car junky" to that specific range and you'll see E55/63 and M3/M5 buyers.

Lexus has decided that the market isn't ready yet, but I wonder if they were to see the new V Caddy's with 559HP selling "well", would they be willing to step up to the plate?

Just thoughts....

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i won't talk about specific cars in general, and for that matter, used cars should not be in the topic coz' of the price range difference.

but i am very sure about the luxury car sales slow down, coz' i am in cali where most of the money is in, and dealerships are hurting bad. back in one year, luxury car sales were normal. but now if you walk into bmw or mb dealerships, they almost want to beg you to buy a car from them. no we are not talking about the c class or 3 series, we are tlaking about high end cars

just take cls63 and m5 as examples. those are cars we are looking at now so i know the market very well. they have been soooo slow selling that when we asked about them, the sales wanted to sell us one so bad. compared to a yr ago? asking for a test drive could be hard.

this goes with a lot of other expensive cars, just look at auto sales numbers in the car chat forum, it's a fact and not something to be debate on. cars like gtr they just came out that's why it's so hot selling. but you need to look at the market as a whole.

vrferrari

I understand your view on this.

Let me ask you....

If you were seriously in the market for an uber sedan like a M5, E63, etc. and Lexus had a hybrid electric/gas GS with the drive train I'm dreaming about, with the performance numbers to match, would you consider buying it ?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if there is a gs-f (i don't care if it's v10 or v8 hybrid) that provides competitive performance and handling aspect as those two cars, i will be seriously considering it for sure, given my great experiences with lexus (interior, quality, etc...)

in fact, we have thought about the is-f as well. but the size of the car totally put it off our list. it just doesn't make sense. ever since i saw the is-f, i have been telling my wife when they have a gs-f, that's one car we should consider

vrferrari

I agree with you

That's why I was thinking that with all the neccassary parts in the current Lexus line-up, how difficult would it be to, at minimum, put the IS-F drivetrain into the GS ? Based solely on what I've read, I would also like that drive train to be mated to the existing 450h hybrid solution to not only boost the the low end torque significantly but to also reward me with the superior city driving mpg numbers.

The IS body line is still a little to cramped for my taste but the IS-F was a blast to drive.

I just wish Lexus would give me the opportunity to purchase a GS that has those superior performance drive trains.

vrferrari

I want this....

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

The GS needs to fit perfectly within the IS and LS, with regards to price and performance and size. It will be difficult to create an aggressive GS as it claws into LS pricing territory.

First and foremost, the GS460 should be tuned just like the LS460 with 380hp. To deny the GS460 that type of horsepower is to emasculate the performance aspect of the car. It's very embarrassing for the GS when compared to the 5-Series and E-Class, and even (**gasp**) the Hyundai Genesis.

Second, the GS350/460 need a more aggressive suspension. Lexus has been too conservative with the 3GS, and it shows when you compare its performance to its sibs: the GS rides too much like the LS, and not enough like the IS. We all know that the GS can be fast and sporty while maintaining a comfortable and smooth ride (just ask any 3GS owner with suspension modifications).

Third, the GS500/GS-F, if tuned like the IS-F, will have approx 400 hp. I think this is unnecessary if the GS460 has a 380hp engine.

Fourth, the GS600h will have approx 430 hp. However, there are a lot of negative issues with this. We have problems with making the car much heavier because of the batteries. We have problems with pricing (we can only estimate that if the GS460 is near $55k, the GS600h will be near $70k), in which it will enter LS460L pricing (and I don't think an extra 50 hp is worth the extra $15k). Finally, we have halo car reputation issues: LS600hL's iconic status will be tainted if the GS can carry the same exclusivity for much less.



So, my recommendations for the GS is simply to re-tune everything, just in time for the 4GS. No need for a GS500/GS-F/GS600h.

Just give us what we got when the 2GS was introduced a long time ago...

UZ214

i drive my 2nd gen GS more then my isf, i love the isf, but i like my GS better. i wish they made a GS-F even if around 70k around 500hp i would get it and trade my ISf

vrferrari

Interesting view points with many valid points.

1) Not sure what the reasoning behind their decision, but I agree completely with your questioning behind not allowing the 380 hp 4.6 in the GS. This should have been a no brainer.

2) Can't disagree on that point either. The car needs the option to have a superior performance package added to it.

3) I only noted the 5.0 liter motor because of it's higher hp rating. Hell, put the ecu and heads on the 4.6 motor and tune it for 450+ hp. For me, though, the 5.0 liter 417hp motor married to the electric drive already available in a GS car would possibly give me the best of both worlds....450hp and the lower fuel consumption.

4) No need for the car to get any heavier than the current 450h, which claims a 0-60 of 5.2 (?). Pricing...yep...I'm sure it would be steep, but a loaded GS450h is already in the base LS460 range. As far as the LS600h being tainted as the top of the line "halo" car ? I think if we look back at the original GS400, not only did it have the matching 4.0 liter V8, it had VVT-i and was rated at 300 hp, compared to the 290 (?) rating in the LS.
I don't think the GS encroaches into the LS buyers market based solely on it's msrp. The LS just doesn't have the athletic abilities that the GS should have, and I'm not to sure if your average LS driver would want it to.

I agree 100% with your last statement " just give us what we got when the 2GS was introduced".....a world class muscular 4 door sport sedan to compete with the best hotrod sedans offered by the direct competitors that Lexus says it's after. Give me an option in the Lexus line that would keep me from looking at AMG E63's, M5's, A6 S4's, etc.

vrferrari

My point exactly. Bean counters at Lexus might not like it, but dang it, I want to continue to have the quality fit, finish, reliabilty and style that persuaded me to buy my GS4XX to begin with, but give me the performance options that Lexus is ALREADY supplying in it's othe cars.

Give us back what the GS stood for when the 2nd gen was released.