GS450h leaked - same hp but a lot better mpg
09-12-11, 02:44 PM
#31
The difference is 56lbs, I doubt the hybrid system contributes much to that.
Lexus seems to have a 3 pronged strategy:
Regular models i.e. GS350 - Caters to traditional Lexus customers with great ride, comfort, quietness, luxury and refinement
Hybrid models i.e. GS450h - Caters to Eco-conscious buyers with higher mpgs, lower emissions and sustainable interior materials
Sport models i.e. GS-F Sport - Caters to enthusiasts and people looking for performance. Hopefully it will mean a supercharged V6 for the GS.
Lexus seems to have a 3 pronged strategy:
Regular models i.e. GS350 - Caters to traditional Lexus customers with great ride, comfort, quietness, luxury and refinement
Hybrid models i.e. GS450h - Caters to Eco-conscious buyers with higher mpgs, lower emissions and sustainable interior materials
Sport models i.e. GS-F Sport - Caters to enthusiasts and people looking for performance. Hopefully it will mean a supercharged V6 for the GS.
that seems to be what lexus is faster. different with the 3gs where the hybrid is more about power and gas mileage is secondary. i am still a bit skeptical about superchargers on the gs350 as fsport, and that probably still isn't enough to fulfill the gap with other v8s
09-12-11, 02:50 PM
#32
Infiniti M35h:
27 city / 32 highway / 29 combined
360 HP
4,129 LBS
For the GS to come out short on horsepower, similar on MPG and heavier would be a huge slap in the face to Lexus, the "leader" in luxury hybrid tech. Infiniti will have a field day with marketing if this is true, and rightfully so. Will they sell more M35hs? Probably not. Did they do a better job than Lexus with hybrid tech in this segment? Yes.
So far, I'm pretty disappointed with these specs (if true) and this leaves me shaking my head about the 4GS overall. Lexus discontinues the V8 and gives us carryover V6 and hybrid powertrains...where exactly was the money spent? New sheetmetal, new interior, and new suspension are great but they really couldn't spend a little more cash for a revised 3.5L V6, hybrid tech and 8speed automatics? Weak, IMO. People expect that a new car is going to have more power than their current one. What does Lexus say to these folks?
When we saw that the base 3.5L V6 was a carryover, many of us were expecting a beefed-up hybrid to (somewhat) compensate for the retirement of the V8. Alas, just another carryover there as well.
27 city / 32 highway / 29 combined
360 HP
4,129 LBS
For the GS to come out short on horsepower, similar on MPG and heavier would be a huge slap in the face to Lexus, the "leader" in luxury hybrid tech. Infiniti will have a field day with marketing if this is true, and rightfully so. Will they sell more M35hs? Probably not. Did they do a better job than Lexus with hybrid tech in this segment? Yes.
So far, I'm pretty disappointed with these specs (if true) and this leaves me shaking my head about the 4GS overall. Lexus discontinues the V8 and gives us carryover V6 and hybrid powertrains...where exactly was the money spent? New sheetmetal, new interior, and new suspension are great but they really couldn't spend a little more cash for a revised 3.5L V6, hybrid tech and 8speed automatics? Weak, IMO. People expect that a new car is going to have more power than their current one. What does Lexus say to these folks?
When we saw that the base 3.5L V6 was a carryover, many of us were expecting a beefed-up hybrid to (somewhat) compensate for the retirement of the V8. Alas, just another carryover there as well.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 09-12-11 at 02:54 PM.
09-12-11, 03:05 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
Infiniti M35h:
27 city / 32 highway / 29 combined
360 HP
4,129 LBS
For the GS to come out short on horsepower, similar on MPG and heavier would be a huge slap in the face to Lexus, the "leader" in luxury hybrid tech. Infiniti will have a field day with marketing if this is true, and rightfully so. Will they sell more M35hs? Probably not. Did they do a better job than Lexus with hybrid tech in this segment? Yes.
27 city / 32 highway / 29 combined
360 HP
4,129 LBS
For the GS to come out short on horsepower, similar on MPG and heavier would be a huge slap in the face to Lexus, the "leader" in luxury hybrid tech. Infiniti will have a field day with marketing if this is true, and rightfully so. Will they sell more M35hs? Probably not. Did they do a better job than Lexus with hybrid tech in this segment? Yes.
09-12-11, 03:07 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Exactly what I expected and wanted. MORE MPG. The GS 450h is fast enough for me and even if its a tick slower, getting 28-32 MPG is fantastic in this class of vehicle. That is what I was hoping for, more MPG, not more power.
You do realize you can't even get parking sensors on a M35h right? It has a regular automatic and the batteries are ion and it seems they are sitting on lots rusting already. They already attacked Lexus with their hybrid ads and no one paid attention or cares.
What did people expect 35 MPG? That is the HS 250h rating, a 4 cylinder.
Now what Lexus is going to have trouble with this time is saying the GS 450h has power like a V-8 since all V-8s have had serious bumps in power. Not sure how they are going to advertise/market it and it seems looking at the early press release there is no mention of power of a V-8. They explain how much better it is to drive now.
That said I still feel Lexus needs some sort of GS 250h or 250 here from Europe as a volume leader.
250 or 250h
350
450h
500
GS F
That would have been nice to see.
So far its
350
450h
and IMO that is not a very compelling argument right now. Its all very logical but where is the "OMG" in the powertrains?
Crap did I just turn negative nancy?
You do realize you can't even get parking sensors on a M35h right? It has a regular automatic and the batteries are ion and it seems they are sitting on lots rusting already. They already attacked Lexus with their hybrid ads and no one paid attention or cares.
What did people expect 35 MPG? That is the HS 250h rating, a 4 cylinder.
Now what Lexus is going to have trouble with this time is saying the GS 450h has power like a V-8 since all V-8s have had serious bumps in power. Not sure how they are going to advertise/market it and it seems looking at the early press release there is no mention of power of a V-8. They explain how much better it is to drive now.
That said I still feel Lexus needs some sort of GS 250h or 250 here from Europe as a volume leader.
250 or 250h
350
450h
500
GS F
That would have been nice to see.
So far its
350
450h
and IMO that is not a very compelling argument right now. Its all very logical but where is the "OMG" in the powertrains?
Crap did I just turn negative nancy?
09-12-11, 03:12 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
Yes it seems the 302HP is for the V6 engine only. Oh MSN Autos why have you foresaken me?!
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...dt=0&v=t113072
The failure here is that everyone has been expecting the hybrid to replace the V8. When Lexus said they were discontinuing that model we all thought they must have something up their sleeves with the hybrid model. 400HP and decent fuel economy would have been great but alas this car will never be replacing V8s.
The question then remains: What will Lexus use to truly replace the V8? The last remaining hope is the F-sport model. Hopefully unlike with the IS and CT-F sport models the GS-F Sport will get more than suspension and cosmetic upgrades. A supercharged V6 making 400+ HP would be nice but I doubt it.
It looks like while Toyoda didn't his wish to kill the GS all together, he managed to cripple it more than its predecessor in the face of ever tougher German competition - and of course now Infiniti. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the current V8 in the GS is outclassed by the competition in power and technology. Offering that V8 as a carry over in the new GS would be laughable, Lexus would need to develop a new competitive V8. Apparently they didn't want to, so they just killed it.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...dt=0&v=t113072
Exactly what I expected and wanted. MORE MPG. The GS 450h is fast enough for me and even if its a tick slower, getting 28-32 MPG is fantastic in this class of vehicle. That is what I was hoping for, more MPG, not more power.
You do realize you can't even get parking sensors on a M35h right? It has a regular automatic and the batteries are ion and it seems they are sitting on lots rusting already. They already attacked Lexus with their hybrid ads and no one paid attention or cares.
What did people expect 35 MPG? That is the HS 250h rating, a 4 cylinder.
Now what Lexus is going to have trouble with this time is saying the GS 450h has power like a V-8 since all V-8s have had serious bumps in power. Not sure how they are going to advertise/market it and it seems looking at the early press release there is no mention of power of a V-8. They explain how much better it is to drive now.
That said I still feel Lexus needs some sort of GS 250h or 250 here from Europe as a volume leader.
250 or 250h
350
450h
500
GS F
That would have been nice to see.
So far its
350
450h
and IMO that is not a very compelling argument right now. Its all very logical but where is the "OMG" in the powertrains?
Crap did I just turn negative nancy?
You do realize you can't even get parking sensors on a M35h right? It has a regular automatic and the batteries are ion and it seems they are sitting on lots rusting already. They already attacked Lexus with their hybrid ads and no one paid attention or cares.
What did people expect 35 MPG? That is the HS 250h rating, a 4 cylinder.
Now what Lexus is going to have trouble with this time is saying the GS 450h has power like a V-8 since all V-8s have had serious bumps in power. Not sure how they are going to advertise/market it and it seems looking at the early press release there is no mention of power of a V-8. They explain how much better it is to drive now.
That said I still feel Lexus needs some sort of GS 250h or 250 here from Europe as a volume leader.
250 or 250h
350
450h
500
GS F
That would have been nice to see.
So far its
350
450h
and IMO that is not a very compelling argument right now. Its all very logical but where is the "OMG" in the powertrains?
Crap did I just turn negative nancy?
The question then remains: What will Lexus use to truly replace the V8? The last remaining hope is the F-sport model. Hopefully unlike with the IS and CT-F sport models the GS-F Sport will get more than suspension and cosmetic upgrades. A supercharged V6 making 400+ HP would be nice but I doubt it.
It looks like while Toyoda didn't his wish to kill the GS all together, he managed to cripple it more than its predecessor in the face of ever tougher German competition - and of course now Infiniti. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the current V8 in the GS is outclassed by the competition in power and technology. Offering that V8 as a carry over in the new GS would be laughable, Lexus would need to develop a new competitive V8. Apparently they didn't want to, so they just killed it.
Last edited by Mr. Burns; 09-12-11 at 03:25 PM.
09-12-11, 03:24 PM
#37
^Well said. In so many ways, the 4GS is a huge step over the current car but in a few very key areas, they obviously rested on their laurels and I think that was a big mistake.
We still have the A6 Hybrid and Active Hybrid 5 to consider.
When is the last time that Lexus intriduced a completely redesigned car, and used 95% carryover powertrains for all models/variants?
We still have the A6 Hybrid and Active Hybrid 5 to consider.
When is the last time that Lexus intriduced a completely redesigned car, and used 95% carryover powertrains for all models/variants?
09-12-11, 03:25 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Infiniti M35h:
27 city / 32 highway / 29 combined
360 HP
4,129 LBS
For the GS to come out short on horsepower, similar on MPG and heavier would be a huge slap in the face to Lexus, the "leader" in luxury hybrid tech. Infiniti will have a field day with marketing if this is true, and rightfully so. Will they sell more M35hs? Probably not. Did they do a better job than Lexus with hybrid tech in this segment? Yes.
So far, I'm pretty disappointed with these specs (if true) and this leaves me shaking my head about the 4GS overall. Lexus discontinues the V8 and gives us carryover V6 and hybrid powertrains...where exactly was the money spent? New sheetmetal, new interior, and new suspension are great but they really couldn't spend a little more cash for a revised 3.5L V6, hybrid tech and 8speed automatics? Weak, IMO. People expect that a new car is going to have more power than their current one. What does Lexus say to these folks?
When we saw that the base 3.5L V6 was a carryover, many of us were expecting a beefed-up hybrid to (somewhat) compensate for the retirement of the V8. Alas, just another carryover there as well.
27 city / 32 highway / 29 combined
360 HP
4,129 LBS
For the GS to come out short on horsepower, similar on MPG and heavier would be a huge slap in the face to Lexus, the "leader" in luxury hybrid tech. Infiniti will have a field day with marketing if this is true, and rightfully so. Will they sell more M35hs? Probably not. Did they do a better job than Lexus with hybrid tech in this segment? Yes.
So far, I'm pretty disappointed with these specs (if true) and this leaves me shaking my head about the 4GS overall. Lexus discontinues the V8 and gives us carryover V6 and hybrid powertrains...where exactly was the money spent? New sheetmetal, new interior, and new suspension are great but they really couldn't spend a little more cash for a revised 3.5L V6, hybrid tech and 8speed automatics? Weak, IMO. People expect that a new car is going to have more power than their current one. What does Lexus say to these folks?
When we saw that the base 3.5L V6 was a carryover, many of us were expecting a beefed-up hybrid to (somewhat) compensate for the retirement of the V8. Alas, just another carryover there as well.
It is completely different setup that uses Atkinson cycle petrol engine. Basically it is improved powertrain from RX450h where they used high compression and D4-S, as well as other changes to improve output by 40hp compared to RX450h.
0-100kmh stays the same but MPG goes up by over 30% and is significantly less than M35h (12% lesser consumption). 6.3l/100kmh is major feat in 340hp vehicle (M35h is 7.1l/100kmh). It also has a lot more advanced hybrid setup with PSD.
As to the weight - it seems that "base" GS450h will be loaded like GS-F - so you get top spec model only, with RWS, VGRS, etc, etc, which has to add weight.
M35h might have more paper hp but in reality car is not as advanced as GSh, with its 7 speed automatic setup, its hybrid system is simply not as integrated (think Sonata vs Camry, where Camry is faster despite less power, and also smoother with better mpg).
Not to mention that GSh has bigger trunk than 3GS 350 :-).
09-12-11, 03:37 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
Just hope the rest of the upcoming lineup isn't so half assed in the powertrain department, and that next year the GS will get new engines. The Camry is using an exact carry over of the V6 from the previous generation and that will probably mean the next ES will too as well. The IS will need a new V6, 8 speed tranny and preferably a turbo 4 to replace the 250. The LS will definitely need an all new very advanced V8, a carry over of the current one would just be surrendering to the competition.
09-12-11, 03:38 PM
#41
differences in 2011 GS450h and 2012 GS450h are huge when it comes to the engine.
It is completely different setup that uses Atkinson cycle petrol engine. Basically it is improved powertrain from RX450h where they used high compression and D4-S, as well as other changes to improve output by 40hp compared to RX450h.
0-100kmh stays the same but MPG goes up by over 30% and is significantly less than M35h (12% lesser consumption). 6.3l/100kmh is major feat in 340hp vehicle (M35h is 7.1l/100kmh). It also has a lot more advanced hybrid setup with PSD.
As to the weight - it seems that "base" GS450h will be loaded like GS-F - so you get top spec model only, with RWS, VGRS, etc, etc, which has to add weight.
M35h might have more paper hp but in reality car is not as advanced as GSh, with its 7 speed automatic setup, its hybrid system is simply not as integrated (think Sonata vs Camry, where Camry is faster despite less power, and also smoother with better mpg).
Not to mention that GSh has bigger trunk than 3GS 350 :-).
It is completely different setup that uses Atkinson cycle petrol engine. Basically it is improved powertrain from RX450h where they used high compression and D4-S, as well as other changes to improve output by 40hp compared to RX450h.
0-100kmh stays the same but MPG goes up by over 30% and is significantly less than M35h (12% lesser consumption). 6.3l/100kmh is major feat in 340hp vehicle (M35h is 7.1l/100kmh). It also has a lot more advanced hybrid setup with PSD.
As to the weight - it seems that "base" GS450h will be loaded like GS-F - so you get top spec model only, with RWS, VGRS, etc, etc, which has to add weight.
M35h might have more paper hp but in reality car is not as advanced as GSh, with its 7 speed automatic setup, its hybrid system is simply not as integrated (think Sonata vs Camry, where Camry is faster despite less power, and also smoother with better mpg).
Not to mention that GSh has bigger trunk than 3GS 350 :-).
GS 450h has less horsepower and gets an increase in MPG. I guess, at the end of the day, I'm glad that Lexus prioritized MPG because I think it's going to be increasingly important now and in the future, but I remain disappointed that there is no associated power or performance increase. Camry got 13 more hp, RXh got 30 more...GSh loses 2. Adding 20hp cannot have had much of an impact on the MPG and would have tied M35h's numbers.
For all of the other incredible improvements, 4GS has been neutered in terms of power/powertrains, IMO. V6 is a carryover, we lose the V8 and the hybrid looks to be dumbed-down in terms of performance to favor MPG. I have no belief/hope that the F-Sport will come packing a supercharger, so hopefully there is a GSF in the pipeline to redeem what has been a disappointment in terms of powertrains.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 09-12-11 at 03:44 PM.
09-12-11, 03:42 PM
#42
Just hope the rest of the upcoming lineup isn't so half assed in the powertrain department, and that next year the GS will get new engines. The Camry is using an exact carry over of the V6 from the previous generation and that will probably mean the next ES will too as well. The IS will need a new V6, 8 speed tranny and preferably a turbo 4 to replace the 250. The LS will definitely need an all new very advanced V8, a carry over of the current one would just be surrendering to the competition.
09-12-11, 03:46 PM
#43
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Just hope the rest of the upcoming lineup isn't so half assed in the powertrain department, and that next year the GS will get new engines. The Camry is using an exact carry over of the V6 from the previous generation and that will probably mean the next ES will too as well. The IS will need a new V6, 8 speed tranny and preferably a turbo 4 to replace the 250. The LS will definitely need an all new very advanced V8, a carry over of the current one would just be surrendering to the competition.
~ Joe Z
09-12-11, 03:46 PM
#44
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I appreciate you pointing out the differences to me (admittedly have not read the press release or M35h specs at length), but when we got the RX 450h it was a 30hp increase over RX 400h and a dramatic increase in MPG. Big changes
GS 450h has less horsepower and gets an increase in MPG. I guess, at the end of the day, I'm glad that Lexus prioritized MPG because I think it's going to be increasingly important now and in the future, but I remain disappointed that there is no associated power or performance increase. Camry got 13 more hp, RXh got 30 more...GSh loses 2. Adding 20hp cannot have had much of an impact on the MPG and would have tied M35h's numbers.
For all of the other incredible improvements, 4GS has been neutered in terms of power/powertrains, IMO. V6 is a carryover, we lose the V8 and the hybrid looks to be dumbed-down in terms of performance to favor MPG. I have no belief/hope that the F-Sport will come packing a supercharger, so hopefully there is a GSF in the pipeline to redeem what has been a disappointment in terms of powertrains.
GS 450h has less horsepower and gets an increase in MPG. I guess, at the end of the day, I'm glad that Lexus prioritized MPG because I think it's going to be increasingly important now and in the future, but I remain disappointed that there is no associated power or performance increase. Camry got 13 more hp, RXh got 30 more...GSh loses 2. Adding 20hp cannot have had much of an impact on the MPG and would have tied M35h's numbers.
For all of the other incredible improvements, 4GS has been neutered in terms of power/powertrains, IMO. V6 is a carryover, we lose the V8 and the hybrid looks to be dumbed-down in terms of performance to favor MPG. I have no belief/hope that the F-Sport will come packing a supercharger, so hopefully there is a GSF in the pipeline to redeem what has been a disappointment in terms of powertrains.
This is Atkinson cycle engine, same as in RX450h, except that they managed to make it 47hp more powerful by using latest version their D4-S dual injection system, first time for any Toyota hybrid.
09-12-11, 03:53 PM
#45
So...if they went to such great lengths to create a new hybrid system, perhaps they should have done a little more to differentiate the horsepower specs?
Yeah, the MPG numbers are going to be
for anyone with a current gen GSh (and I praise them for that), but I just think it's weak that they couldn't even "up" it to 350 or 360hp while making the other improvements. That's all.
Yeah, the MPG numbers are going to be
for anyone with a current gen GSh (and I praise them for that), but I just think it's weak that they couldn't even "up" it to 350 or 360hp while making the other improvements. That's all.